why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?

question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool
at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using
a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking
advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging
lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait
casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face
spinning reel or even a spincasting reel.

When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast.
Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle,
over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no.

These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few
feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge
fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds
of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster
with a lug nut attached for weight.

I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
sell bait casters.

skeptic bordering on cynic...

Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water.

Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to
a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into
a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a
lot of noise. Just laying it in there.

Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit
for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does.

Carlos

Carlos wrote:
Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water.

Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to
a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into
a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a
lot of noise. Just laying it in there.

Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit
for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does.

Carlos


let me elaborate:

I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6
pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put
10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small
streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a
baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.

The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a
boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from
the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds.

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.

Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...


"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been fishing for 37 years now,

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.

"Charles B. Summers" wrote in message
. ..
Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...


"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been fishing for 37 years now,

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.


I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were
restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with
a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters
of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and
high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with
incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the
accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures
while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know
that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle,

Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range
accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and
distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the
side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away
from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a
bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump.

On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel
to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can
pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is
not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning
Citori, or Shimano Curado.

And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably
owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has
just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the
same problems, but they are problems just the same.

Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels
simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really
like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about
the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it
has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked
constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up
any better.

Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement.
To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably
more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain
silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use
a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the
hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind.

To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I
fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz
rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4
Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a
special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on
the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that
we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides.

I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons,
and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I
also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast
slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do
it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November
tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35
mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL
spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal
with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I
could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the
other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them,
but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing
though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than
I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits
on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I
certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting
tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions
in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite
accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it.


--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Charles B. Summers" wrote in message
. ..
Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...


"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been fishing for 37 years now,

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.


I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were
restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with
a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters
of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and
high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with
incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the
accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures
while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know
that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle,

Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range
accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and
distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the
side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away
from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a
bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump.

On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel
to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can
pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is
not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning
Citori, or Shimano Curado.

And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably
owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has
just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the
same problems, but they are problems just the same.

Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels
simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really
like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about
the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it
has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked
constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up
any better.

Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement.
To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably
more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain
silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use
a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the
hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind.

To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I
fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz
rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4
Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a
special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on
the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that
we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides.

I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons,
and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I
also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast
slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do
it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November
tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35
mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL
spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal
with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I
could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the
other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them,
but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing
though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than
I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits
on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I
certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting
tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions
in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite
accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it.


--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime
too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless
you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise
in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans-
and having to maintain the tank to do it.

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Charles B. Summers" wrote in message
. ..
Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...


"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been fishing for 37 years now,

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.


I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were
restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with
a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters
of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and
high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with
incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the
accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures
while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know
that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle,

Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range
accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and
distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the
side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away
from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a
bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump.

On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel
to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can
pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is
not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning
Citori, or Shimano Curado.

And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably
owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has
just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the
same problems, but they are problems just the same.

Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels
simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really
like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about
the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it
has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked
constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up
any better.

Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement.
To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably
more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain
silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use
a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the
hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind.

To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I
fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz
rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4
Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a
special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on
the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that
we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides.

I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons,
and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I
also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast
slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do
it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November
tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35
mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL
spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal
with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I
could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the
other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them,
but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing
though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than
I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits
on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I
certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting
tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions
in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite
accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it.


--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line.
I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in
comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the
latter. There would have to be a pressing need for hauling in 15+ lb.
fish on a regular basis, to make a baitcaster worthwhile, such as an
entry level baitcaster that handles 20 pound line. Where's the
advantage to a reel, that you have to monitor with thumb pressure to
prevent backlashes- to catch sub-12 lb. fish ? The spinning
rod/reel combo I have now handles 3/4 oz. lures without problem.

One can buy about 5 entry-level spinning reels for the price of one
good baitcaster. Suffice to say, those 5 reels would last a long, long
time overall.

I have had cheap spinning reels fall apart eventually- from heavy use,
dirt, falling in the water, lack of oiling- but it took 20 years of
such abuse to destroy them. And all the while, they casted further
and easier, with less tangles, than a baitcaster would.

There simply is not a lot of places to fish, where you catch 5 bass all
over 10 pounds in one day. That's the exception, not the rule. That's
TV tourney fishing- not everyday real world.

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

Carlos wrote:
Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water.

Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to
a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into
a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a
lot of noise. Just laying it in there.

Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit
for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does.

I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6
pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put
10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small
streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a
baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.

Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could
throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for
distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for
accuracy.

There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a
lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has
_got_ to be scary!)

You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37
years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with
a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for
about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past
thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5
seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to
apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the
line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need
to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out.

From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that
baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why
do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess
they _all_ could be wrong about the subject.

Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you
just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning
reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic
worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five
times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster.

On 7 Aug 2006 07:36:31 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
wrote:
Snip
ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line.
I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in
comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the
latter. There would have to be a pressing need for hauling in 15+ lb.
fish on a regular basis, to make a baitcaster worthwhile, such as an
entry level baitcaster that handles 20 pound line. Where's the
advantage to a reel, that you have to monitor with thumb pressure to
prevent backlashes- to catch sub-12 lb. fish ? The spinning
rod/reel combo I have now handles 3/4 oz. lures without problem.

One can buy about 5 entry-level spinning reels for the price of one
good baitcaster. Suffice to say, those 5 reels would last a long, long
time overall.

I have had cheap spinning reels fall apart eventually- from heavy use,
dirt, falling in the water, lack of oiling- but it took 20 years of
such abuse to destroy them. And all the while, they casted further
and easier, with less tangles, than a baitcaster would.

There simply is not a lot of places to fish, where you catch 5 bass all
over 10 pounds in one day. That's the exception, not the rule. That's
TV tourney fishing- not everyday real world.

Two things come to mind after reading your posts.

One, someone embarressed the living daylites out of you because of
your inability to master a modern baitcaster in two days time.
This could be caused by several things. You might be unable to afford
the $125 to 200 for a quality baitcaster. You might be unable to ask
someone for instruction in the proper use of a baitcaster. You might
be physically unable to control a baitcaster. Oh the list could go on
and on.

Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The
real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to
put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you
have done all the work for me.

Now, if you really want to know how to use a baitcaster properly, take
your attitude and shove it. Come back in a week or so and apologize
for your uncalled for behaviour and ask for advice on how to use the
specific brand baitcaster you failed to master.

I am sure someone here will be willing to help you out.

If not, it's your loss not mine.

PLONKED the troll!

Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote:
Snip
ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line.
I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in
comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the
latter. ...

snip
Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The
real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to
put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you
have done all the work for me. ...

Damn man, that's harsh. Mr. d-h-c sounds to me like an
opinionated old cuss looking for an argument. Kinda like
a lot of fishermen I know. Usenet isn't very conducive to
the kind of arguments that would seem perfectly OK when
seated next to someone at the bar quaffing a brew. I'm
willing to give Mr. d-h-c the benefit of the doubt and
if I disagreed with him I'd argue it with him with a good
nature and my tongue in cheek. But I tried to cast with my
Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of
the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-)

--
Ken Fortenberry