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  #11  
Old January 24th, 2004, 07:47 AM
Hooked
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Default Fishing Scotland

"Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message
om...

What's more in a lot of parts of scotland fishing on a sunday is
illegal. The scots are a god-fearing bunch.



Sounds like what some of the religious fanatics here in the States want to
do.

Impose their self centered ideas on everyone's rights.

Damn sure would be nice if they went fishing more often instead of sitting
around complaining about the rest of us fishing!!


  #12  
Old January 24th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Lazarus Cooke
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Default Fishing Scotland

In article .net,
pmfpa wrote:

That is very true. In the US, aside from many questions about stream access
and trespassing, once you can get into the stream the state owns the fish
and can give you a license to take them.


Sounds like pinko liberal communism to me.

My understanding is that in the
UK, the land and the fish are private.


Yessir. The Uk's a land of free enterprise and opportunity for all.

At least the US appoints its head of state in the same way as the Brits
do, and appoints the vastly wealthy son of a previous head of state,
rather than the socialist notion of taking someone who's won the most
votes at an election.

Neither Charles nor George W may be very bright, but who cares?

(And incidentally Charles, who as well as being Prince of Wales is also
Duke of Cornwall, charges very reasonable rates for his Duchy of
Cornwall waters, which include wonderful fishing on Dartmoor -- Hound
of the Baskervilles territory. )

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address
  #13  
Old January 24th, 2004, 10:22 PM
Nogood Boyo
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Default Fishing Scotland

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 at 21:21:19 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly pmfpa wrote:
My understanding is that in the UK, the land and the fish are private.


Not quite... It's complicated..! And the position is not the same
throughout the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). And the
Republic of Ireland is completely different.

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

There are exceptions, such as some tidal waters, where there's a public
right to fish. But normally the presumption is that the owner of the
bank owns the fishing rights to the middle line. But fishing rights can
be (and often are) separated from ownership of land. In many areas the
fishing rights have been acquired by clubs for their members. Fishing
is usually available in most areas for a modest fee, but it's necessary
to make enquiries and get permission. It's not a good idea to fish
without seeking permission.

The fish themselves (in running water) belong to no-one. But it's an
offence to fish in private waters.

As noted below, everywhere you fish requires a permit.


"Permit" is the word usually used to describe the permission obtained
from the owner of the fishing rights. It's different from and
additional to the "rod licence" which everyone has to obtain from the
Environment Agency before fishing anywhere.

While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many instances where
you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for not too
much money.


Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Google the area and ask in
uk.rec.fishing.game


The legal position in Scotland is explained at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/?pageID=99


[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(

--
Nogood Boyo
  #14  
Old January 24th, 2004, 11:01 PM
Hooked
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Default Fishing Scotland

"Nogood Boyo" wrote in message
...

(snip)

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

(snip)

[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(



Sounds to me like the British Empire needs to suffer defeat from another
Revolution. One by it's own citizens!!


  #15  
Old January 25th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Mu Young Lee
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Default Fishing Scotland

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Lazarus Cooke wrote:

And incidentally Charles, who as well as being Prince of Wales is also
Duke of Cornwall, charges very reasonable rates for his Duchy of
Cornwall waters, which include wonderful fishing on Dartmoor


chuckle

Mu
  #16  
Old January 25th, 2004, 08:51 PM
smiles
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Default Fishing Scotland

A good many salmon rivers here in Eastern Canada have privately owned
sections that were accorded to families when Canada was first colonized.

--
http://www.bluezone.best.cd/
"Nogood Boyo" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 at 21:21:19 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly pmfpa wrote:
My understanding is that in the UK, the land and the fish are private.


Not quite... It's complicated..! And the position is not the same
throughout the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). And the
Republic of Ireland is completely different.

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

There are exceptions, such as some tidal waters, where there's a public
right to fish. But normally the presumption is that the owner of the
bank owns the fishing rights to the middle line. But fishing rights can
be (and often are) separated from ownership of land. In many areas the
fishing rights have been acquired by clubs for their members. Fishing
is usually available in most areas for a modest fee, but it's necessary
to make enquiries and get permission. It's not a good idea to fish
without seeking permission.

The fish themselves (in running water) belong to no-one. But it's an
offence to fish in private waters.

As noted below, everywhere you fish requires a permit.


"Permit" is the word usually used to describe the permission obtained
from the owner of the fishing rights. It's different from and
additional to the "rod licence" which everyone has to obtain from the
Environment Agency before fishing anywhere.

While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many instances where
you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for not too
much money.


Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Google the area and ask in
uk.rec.fishing.game


The legal position in Scotland is explained at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/?pageID=99


[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(

--
Nogood Boyo



  #17  
Old January 26th, 2004, 07:14 AM
Hooked
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Posts: n/a
Default Fishing Scotland

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...


A friend of mine owns a house on the Spey,
but she does not have the right to fish it:
someone else owns the fishing rights.



I do believe that I would have to get to know my neighbors real good.

Or is this "someone else" some sort of "Duke of Something" with a rod up his
ass?




  #18  
Old January 26th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Sandy
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Default Fishing Scotland

Hooked wrote:
"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...


A friend of mine owns a house on the Spey,
but she does not have the right to fish it:
someone else owns the fishing rights.



I do believe that I would have to get to know my neighbors real good.

Or is this "someone else" some sort of "Duke of Something" with a rod
up his ass?


I think she probably has the right to fish it for trout if she owns the land
down to the bank as it is only the salmon/seatrout fishing that can be sold
seperately from the land.

--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:-
Website:-
http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667
#Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabbled
ICQ : 41266150


  #19  
Old January 26th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Wolfgang
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Default Fishing Scotland


"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...

Many of the waters in the US will eventually be
controlled in a similar manner, tho I would guess
there will also be a lot of access by lottery.


Maybe. Fly fishing has steadily gained in popularity for the last twenty
years and the trend certainly could continue, but there is no reason to
suppose that it is necessarily so. Consider, for example, the likelihood
that the average age of fly fishers is probably higher than that for many
other outdoor activities. I mean, let's face it, this isn't going to make
anyone's list of x-games. It's not unreasonable to posit that there are a
lot more fly fishers today largely because there are a lot of baby boomers
getting to the age at which waving a stick in the air seems a lot more
appealing that launching themselves through it by one means or another.
Eventually (and not all that long from now), we're going to begin pushing up
daisies at a higher rate than we are currently trampling them on route to a
favorite fishing hole, and there is no guarantee that new recruits will
arrive fast enough to make up for attrition. Then too, fly fishing as it is
practiced in the U.S. today depends pretty heavily on a general level of
affluence that we have come to take for granted for a couple of generations
but which recent evidence suggests may not continue indefinitely.

Wolfgang


  #20  
Old January 26th, 2004, 01:47 PM
JR
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Default Fishing Scotland

Wolfgang wrote:

"Greg Pavlov" wrote in message
...

Many of the waters in the US will eventually be
controlled in a similar manner, tho I would guess
there will also be a lot of access by lottery.


Maybe. Fly fishing has steadily gained in popularity for the last twenty
years and the trend certainly could continue, but there is no reason to
suppose that it is necessarily so.


There is some evidence the trend has already reversed itself:

http://tinyurl.com/2reol

Consider, for example, the likelihood
that the average age of fly fishers is probably higher than that for many
other outdoor activities.


I believe there are statistics to this effect, but haven't got the time
to do a search.

...... It's not unreasonable to posit that there are a
lot more fly fishers today largely because there are a lot of baby boomers
getting to the age at which waving a stick in the air seems a lot more
appealing that launching themselves through it by one means or another.


And will be getting to an age at which strolling on the local golf
course may seem more appealing than searching for, catching and
releasing the 10,000th trout.

JR
 




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