Scents + ethics/morality

[Josh]

Well as long as many of us are sitting around till springtime only wishing
we could get out on the water, I thought I'd try this perhaps controversial
question out on you guy/gals.

I'm not sure if scents work or not. I tend to think they do, but perhaps
that's just a psychological crutch I use (which is ok if it works . . . I
think). But I get the drift that many . . . perhaps even most members of
ROFB agree they do not work eg. see recent thread Re: information with Joe
H's response. I know there's been an ongoing debate and am not sure of the
numbers, but let's assume most members agree that they do not work. . . .
That being the case,

I've seen just about every major tournament competitor (BASS, FLW etc)
endorse scents at one time or another. Do group members see any issues of an
ethical or moral nature in the peddeling of those products by the pros (who
must have a good idea if they legitimately work or not) if they don't really
work.?

I recall some time ago asking a similar question about endorsements of
other products by pros (eg. Hank Parker's long time Hummingbird is God's
greatest gift to fishermen. . . now with someone else). And everyone seemed
to have no problem with it because "it's how they make their living." I did
and do have a problem with it. I very much enjoy Bill Dance as a fisherman
( though he fishes nothing but stocked ponds any longer) and a person. I
understand he's a golden human being, but everyone has to know Bill would
endorse tying a cow on the end of his line if someone paid him a buck to say
it.

I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement monies
just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor? Just
wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear

[Illinois Fisherman]

People do what they need to do to survive or to just get a little extra.
Some do it at the expense of others - no morals.
What do they care if you buy a product that does not work. "I wanted to buy
the BASS O' MATIC from SNL." - There's a sucker born every minute. Some are
just so ME oriented they stink. Some just want to help others for no
recognition. The bigger the ego the bigger the jerk.

In a tournament where each cast is a potential fish catch, a Pro is not
going to take the time to spray his lure with some scent. The time lost
doing that could mean 2 to three casts per minute. That is a lot of missed
cast per tournament. The lost fish potential is too great.

If scent worked we would all be "stink bait dead stick fishing" for Bass - I
haven't seen any lately? Color, vibration/sound and the Bass's nature to eat
what excites it or bothers it works. Spinners, buzz bait, poppers, chuggers,
plugs, jigs, cranks - is there a theme here... I would not want to throw a
stinky plastic dip bait worm around my boat. What scent would I pick if they
worked? - my choice is a combo of rotted garlic/worm/frog with sprinkles of
grasshopper.


"Josh" > wrote in message
...
> Well as long as many of us are sitting around till springtime only wishing
> we could get out on the water, I thought I'd try this perhaps
controversial
> question out on you guy/gals.
>
> I'm not sure if scents work or not. I tend to think they do, but
perhaps
> that's just a psychological crutch I use (which is ok if it works . . . I
> think). But I get the drift that many . . . perhaps even most members of
> ROFB agree they do not work eg. see recent thread Re: information with Joe
> H's response. I know there's been an ongoing debate and am not sure of the
> numbers, but let's assume most members agree that they do not work. . . .
> That being the case,
>
> I've seen just about every major tournament competitor (BASS, FLW etc)
> endorse scents at one time or another. Do group members see any issues of
an
> ethical or moral nature in the peddeling of those products by the pros
(who
> must have a good idea if they legitimately work or not) if they don't
really
> work.?
>
> I recall some time ago asking a similar question about endorsements
of
> other products by pros (eg. Hank Parker's long time Hummingbird is God's
> greatest gift to fishermen. . . now with someone else). And everyone
seemed
> to have no problem with it because "it's how they make their living." I
did
> and do have a problem with it. I very much enjoy Bill Dance as a
fisherman
> ( though he fishes nothing but stocked ponds any longer) and a person. I
> understand he's a golden human being, but everyone has to know Bill would
> endorse tying a cow on the end of his line if someone paid him a buck to
say
> it.
>
> I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor? Just
> wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
>
>

[Patrik]

NOPE!
"Josh" > wrote in message
...
> Well as long as many of us are sitting around till springtime only wishing
> we could get out on the water, I thought I'd try this perhaps
controversial
> question out on you guy/gals.
>
> I'm not sure if scents work or not. I tend to think they do, but
perhaps
> that's just a psychological crutch I use (which is ok if it works . . . I
> think). But I get the drift that many . . . perhaps even most members of
> ROFB agree they do not work eg. see recent thread Re: information with Joe
> H's response. I know there's been an ongoing debate and am not sure of the
> numbers, but let's assume most members agree that they do not work. . . .
> That being the case,
>
> I've seen just about every major tournament competitor (BASS, FLW etc)
> endorse scents at one time or another. Do group members see any issues of
an
> ethical or moral nature in the peddeling of those products by the pros
(who
> must have a good idea if they legitimately work or not) if they don't
really
> work.?
>
> I recall some time ago asking a similar question about endorsements
of
> other products by pros (eg. Hank Parker's long time Hummingbird is God's
> greatest gift to fishermen. . . now with someone else). And everyone
seemed
> to have no problem with it because "it's how they make their living." I
did
> and do have a problem with it. I very much enjoy Bill Dance as a
fisherman
> ( though he fishes nothing but stocked ponds any longer) and a person. I
> understand he's a golden human being, but everyone has to know Bill would
> endorse tying a cow on the end of his line if someone paid him a buck to
say
> it.
>
> I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor? Just
> wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
>
>

[BassMr.]

Have you ever heard of Uncle Josh pork frogs and trailers? They have been
around forever.
It is hard today to find a plastic bait that isn't scented,salt
impregnated,or just plain stinks to begin with.It either stinks because it
is manufactured that way or it stinks because you can get a bite with it.
As far as tournaments and winning money,if the bite is tough,pros and
amateurs alike will dip their bait in crap if they think it will get a bite.
If it was a moral issue,I would be thinking of joining PETA! :)

[Charles B. Summers]

If scents work for you... then they work. I've never bought a bottled scent
to spray on, but have tried the smelly jelly a few times. Mostly, the only
thing that I have that comes scented is the Powerbaits... and I love those,
just because the bass seem to love them too!


"Josh" > wrote in message
...
> Well as long as many of us are sitting around till springtime only wishing
> we could get out on the water, I thought I'd try this perhaps
controversial
> question out on you guy/gals.
>
> I'm not sure if scents work or not. I tend to think they do, but
perhaps
> that's just a psychological crutch I use (which is ok if it works . . . I
> think). But I get the drift that many . . . perhaps even most members of
> ROFB agree they do not work eg. see recent thread Re: information with Joe
> H's response. I know there's been an ongoing debate and am not sure of the
> numbers, but let's assume most members agree that they do not work. . . .
> That being the case,
>
> I've seen just about every major tournament competitor (BASS, FLW etc)
> endorse scents at one time or another. Do group members see any issues of
an
> ethical or moral nature in the peddeling of those products by the pros
(who
> must have a good idea if they legitimately work or not) if they don't
really
> work.?
>
> I recall some time ago asking a similar question about endorsements
of
> other products by pros (eg. Hank Parker's long time Hummingbird is God's
> greatest gift to fishermen. . . now with someone else). And everyone
seemed
> to have no problem with it because "it's how they make their living." I
did
> and do have a problem with it. I very much enjoy Bill Dance as a
fisherman
> ( though he fishes nothing but stocked ponds any longer) and a person. I
> understand he's a golden human being, but everyone has to know Bill would
> endorse tying a cow on the end of his line if someone paid him a buck to
say
> it.
>
> I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor? Just
> wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
>
>

[Chris Rennert]

Unfortunately in this society money is a key factor in almost everything we
do, so if it takes pushing a product to make a living even if you don't
really use the product or really feel it is worth while then I guess that is
what you have to do.
Now as for scents, I definitely use them, my thought is , if they don't
help, they sure don't hurt, and I am not going to be caught on the short
side of that stick. Why not appeal to all their senses. Berkley obviously
believes in them, I don't know what their R&D bill is a year , but I am
guessing it is pretty hefty. I know the species I chase most of the time,
scent is probably the biggest factor in getting them to bite.

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.


Chris
"Josh" > wrote in message
...
> Well as long as many of us are sitting around till springtime only wishing
> we could get out on the water, I thought I'd try this perhaps
controversial
> question out on you guy/gals.
>
> I'm not sure if scents work or not. I tend to think they do, but
perhaps
> that's just a psychological crutch I use (which is ok if it works . . . I
> think). But I get the drift that many . . . perhaps even most members of
> ROFB agree they do not work eg. see recent thread Re: information with Joe
> H's response. I know there's been an ongoing debate and am not sure of the
> numbers, but let's assume most members agree that they do not work. . . .
> That being the case,
>
> I've seen just about every major tournament competitor (BASS, FLW etc)
> endorse scents at one time or another. Do group members see any issues of
an
> ethical or moral nature in the peddeling of those products by the pros
(who
> must have a good idea if they legitimately work or not) if they don't
really
> work.?
>
> I recall some time ago asking a similar question about endorsements
of
> other products by pros (eg. Hank Parker's long time Hummingbird is God's
> greatest gift to fishermen. . . now with someone else). And everyone
seemed
> to have no problem with it because "it's how they make their living." I
did
> and do have a problem with it. I very much enjoy Bill Dance as a
fisherman
> ( though he fishes nothing but stocked ponds any longer) and a person. I
> understand he's a golden human being, but everyone has to know Bill would
> endorse tying a cow on the end of his line if someone paid him a buck to
say
> it.
>
> I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor? Just
> wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
>
>

[RG]

I'd guess that you could apply the "THIS is GOOD! " program to every pro in
every sport for everything they endorse.

Is a Merc a better engine that Johns/Suz/Yam/issan ??? or does the pro ride
it because he either gets paid or gets the
motor/boat/bait/reel/rod/shirt/pants/tacklebox/etc etc. cheaper or even for
free?? Of course he gets a "deal" to endorse the product.
Better not stop at scents.

Does Tiger Woods reeaaalllly use Nike clubs or whatever??? Perhaps not...
I've heard that they are made to the specs of some other brand of club that
he liked. You and I can't even buy the same thing. At least I can buy the
same scents, if I want to ( I think ).

The reality is... if the guy is a pro, he is endorsing SOMETHING that may or
may not work as well for us as it does for him. The simple answer is a pro
is a pro and has to do it to make his living doing what he loves. It is NO
different in baseball, football, ( do you really think those ugly nose
bandages help a running back run?? ) or tennis, etc..

A well sponsored pro is a well paid ( you insert the WORD of your choice
here), and everyone knows it. It, unfortunately, is the sports program that
we all support by buying the same stuff that they sell. But, sell it is..
the product may or may not really work as well as the pro makes out.....and
I suspect everyone knows that.

RichG

[RichZ]

Josh wrote:

> I've seen just about every major tournament competitor (BASS, FLW etc)
> endorse scents at one time or another.
>

I covered most of the Classics from 1980 to 2000 as an official observer.
Most of the pros I rode with over that time had some scent patch or other
on their person. In all that time, I only ever saw one of them (Ken Cook)
actually take the time to put it on his lure during either competition or
practice. Other than him, I can also give Jay Yelas a free ride on that, as
he never tied on a soft lure or used a trailer that wasn't a powerbait, so
he certainly used scent.

I also rode as an observer in most of the All Americans from '85 to '97.
With a few exceptions, the All American competitors course were for the
most part, high-level 'wannabes' or semi-pros. IE, really good weekend
fishermen. Maybe 1 out of 5 of these guys would do it.

RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing

[Josh]

Very interesting Rich. I'll continue to use I guess mostly because of
the psychological boost it gives me. Appreciate your insights as always.

And it's pretty obvious that other major league sports figures don't
always use what they endorse. My question was directed at our sport and
those who've attained some degree of success in it professionally.

--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"Josh" > wrote in message <SNIP>
>
> I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement monies
> just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor? Just
> wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.

My personal opinion is that it's not right to endorse a product and/or service/company if the
endorsee (?) doesn't use it. Now, this is just me speaking for myself, but as many of you know, I'm
working on getting sponsors for my hopefully soon to air television show. It takes a great deal of
money to get a show on the air and in order to do so, I need sponsors and their corresponding funds.
BUT, I'm not going to sign a contract unless it is a quality item that I would consider using
personally.

A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a sponsorship package of two boats
and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only problem with the whole deal
was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I am a fiberglass
performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in this rig, anyone that knew
me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that! So I politely declined,
and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but disappointed at the same time.

I'm not going to even remotely attempt to impose my morals and beliefs on someone else. I feel that
it's MY reputation on the line if I endorse something and I won't risk my reputation for something
as trivial as cash or some trinkets. Reputation is like virginity, once it's gone, there's nothing
that can get it back.

But that's just my opinion,
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[Nikolay]

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
<snip>
> A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a sponsorship package of two boats
> and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only problem with the whole deal
> was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I am a fiberglass
> performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in this rig, anyone that knew
> me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that! So I politely declined,
> and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but disappointed at the same time.

Steve, I'm impressed too, but not disappointed!

Cheers,
Nikolay

[Brad Coovert]

I sell products and would never think of selling anything that I would not use
myself.

IMO, pros who endorse products they would not or do not use have no integrity
and their opinion is worth zip.

Companies who let such things happen, ie, they let a pro endorse them even
though the pro coiuld care less about the product, are just as bad.

Brad
Brad Coovert, 2003 Angler of the Year, Greenfield Bassmasters
Please visit our sponsors:
http://www.geocities.com/greenfieldbass/WelcomeToOurSponsorPage.htm
Indianapolis Colts over Tennessee Titans 33-7, 29-27 Go Colts!

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"Nikolay" > wrote in message
ss.edu...
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
> <snip>
> > A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a sponsorship package of two
boats
> > and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only problem with the whole
deal
> > was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I am a fiberglass
> > performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in this rig, anyone that
knew
> > me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that! So I politely
declined,
> > and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but disappointed at the same
time.
>
> Steve, I'm impressed too, but not disappointed!

Yeah, but there's days that I kick myself! Not enough to change my mind, but....... ;-p
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[go-bassn]

Your reputation was dust in high school Stevo!

Josh - scents work, especially Kick-N-Bass & Smelly Jelly. Lots of pros use
scents. I've seen scents make the difference between success & failure
several times, though I don't feel it often does. I do feel that scents
mask some negative odors, and also that they get you an extra bite or two on
most days from nonaggressive bass. I've yet to see a scented bait make the
bass come running from across the lake.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Josh" > wrote in message <SNIP>
> >
> > I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> > inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> > just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor?
Just
> > wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
>
> My personal opinion is that it's not right to endorse a product and/or
service/company if the
> endorsee (?) doesn't use it. Now, this is just me speaking for myself,
but as many of you know, I'm
> working on getting sponsors for my hopefully soon to air television show.
It takes a great deal of
> money to get a show on the air and in order to do so, I need sponsors and
their corresponding funds.
> BUT, I'm not going to sign a contract unless it is a quality item that I
would consider using
> personally.
>
> A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a
sponsorship package of two boats
> and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only
problem with the whole deal
> was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I
am a fiberglass
> performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in
this rig, anyone that knew
> me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that!
So I politely declined,
> and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but
disappointed at the same time.
>
> I'm not going to even remotely attempt to impose my morals and beliefs on
someone else. I feel that
> it's MY reputation on the line if I endorse something and I won't risk my
reputation for something
> as trivial as cash or some trinkets. Reputation is like virginity, once
it's gone, there's nothing
> that can get it back.
>
> But that's just my opinion,
> --
> Steve
> OutdoorFrontiers
> http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
> G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
> http://www.herefishyfishy.com
>
>

[go-bassn]

If you think about it Josh, it's really no different than a Ford salesman
that drives a Chevy to work. I'm not endorsing the practice, but it's
definately no crime.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Josh" > wrote in message
...
> Very interesting Rich. I'll continue to use I guess mostly because of
> the psychological boost it gives me. Appreciate your insights as always.
>
> And it's pretty obvious that other major league sports figures don't
> always use what they endorse. My question was directed at our sport and
> those who've attained some degree of success in it professionally.
>
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
>
>

[go-bassn]

That's pretty funny! Take Josh. That guy'll rip the faces off fish all day
but he's worried about morals lol.

He's my buddy, by the way.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"BassMr." > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Have you ever heard of Uncle Josh pork frogs and trailers? They have been
> around forever.
> It is hard today to find a plastic bait that isn't scented,salt
> impregnated,or just plain stinks to begin with.It either stinks because it
> is manufactured that way or it stinks because you can get a bite with it.
> As far as tournaments and winning money,if the bite is tough,pros and
> amateurs alike will dip their bait in crap if they think it will get a
bite.
> If it was a moral issue,I would be thinking of joining PETA! :)
>
>

[Joe Haubenreich]

"Josh" > wrote in message
...
<snip> Just wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear
-------------
Josh, this got me thinking.... Warning: this turned out to be a long
response.

In my reply to Jack, I stated my belief that scents are ineffective in
attracting bass. That's not to say they don't make a difference in your
fishing. Here's a distinction that may be obvious to most readers already:
while scents may not influence the hunted, they undoubtedly have an impact
on the hunt.

Wouldn't you say a whole lot of what we do as anglers falls in the category
of ritual rather than true fishing science? I think one of the things we
enjoy about our sport is that it has evolved its own bass angling culture.
And as with every culture, this one has its rituals. Some are grounded in
fact... others in mystical lore and superstition.

Pistol Pete Maravitch wore the same pair of gym socks (without laundering)
to keep his winning streak going. Construction workers top out a building
with a conifer tree. Blood from his first deer is (in some cultures) smeared
on a young hunter's face. Religious people practice rituals to greet the
day, celebrate a meal, initiate special events, invoke blessing for travel,
and so forth. The boys I grew up with could be counted on to produce a
buckeye among the contents of their jeans pockets, and they usually carried
a lucky marble or stone, too.

Just as native Americans stepping out of their wickiup tapped the deerskin
pouch hung by a thong around their neck or belted at their side to make
certain their talismans were secure, I pat my pocket as I head to the truck
to make sure my old pocket knife -- not just any knife, but the "right"
one -- is in its place. The familiar shape that wears a hole over the pocket
of every pair of jeans I own confers a sense of "everything is in its
place."

Some bass anglers feel unprepared if they're not wearing their lucky hats,
shirts, or shoes. Others, noticing that the landing net seems often to be
out of reach when they hang onto a big bass, deliberately leave it in the
rod locker in order to increase their odds. I have an unreasonable
preference for my red Ambassadeur reels over the plain aluminum
ones, even through the guts are identical since I've long ago replaced all
the brass bushings with ball bearings.

One of Bubba's bass fishing rituals was to reach down, pick up a bottle, and
pump one spray of anise-scented oil on his lure every tenth cast. Do these
rituals affect the fish? That's doubtful. Do they increase our catch rate.
If they serve to relax or focus us so that we feel more comfortable and are
mentally better prepared to react to opportunities the bass present, then
maybe they do.

A whiff of anise has the power to transport me back through the years. Once
or twice each season, I'll rummage deep in my tackle box, pull out a small,
yellowed plastic bottle, and squirt a few drops of the scent on my bait just
to conjure up the shades of my long-departed friend and of the huge bass we
caught together. Does it help me catch bass? Who cares? It helps me enjoy my
fishing experience.

Should a manufacturer stop making "feel good" products, or should we anglers
be made to feel like idiots for having and using them? Of course not. After
all, this is a "feel good" sport we engage in -- not one based on our need
for meat or driven entirely on effectiveness, performance, and productivity.
In the final analysis, most of us fish to relax, achieve some sort of
harmony, relieve stress, or enjoy our solitude for awhile. If rituals helps
us achieve that, then we're probably going to keep on observing them -- even
though someone correctly points out that the rituals in themselves have no
discernable effect on our quarry.

If an angler feels like smearing his body with rotton shad and earthworms,
aligning the equipment just so on his boat deck, coating his baits with
scented oils, painting his face blue, and chanting Gaelic war songs as he
leaves the ramp and he thinks any of this will help him achieve his
objectives, I say more power to him.... sit back and enjoy the show.

Now.... about endorsements. Repeat after me.... "It's all entertainment."

TV news.... entertainment. TV news reporting is not about the pursuit of
truth, but about ratings. Ratings drive profits, and entertainment value
drive ratings.

Bass tournaments and all other sports.... entertainment.

Product placements.... entertainment.

Technological advancements in fishing gear, electronics, boats and
motors.... entertainment.

Pros don't sell products; mostly they sell dreams. They sell "be like me."
Remember "I wanna be like Mike"? Five foot-eight inch me wearing a Chicago
Bulls jersey and Nikes had absolutely no chance of dunking a basketball,
much less playing in the NBA, but who cares? I may buy some Kelly
Springfield tires for my pickup one of these days. Think they'll help me
catch bass like Hank Parker? Should I put the battery in my boat that Jimmy
Houston has in his? Would it help to have the make of boat that Kevin Van
Dam drives. Will they help me be a better bass angler? Sure they will....
about as much as coating my baits with anise-flavored oil. My point is just
this -- a pro who is hired to promote a product or does so on his television
show is selling a dream, and people who want to buy into the dream purchase
and use the products. Should a pro prefer the brand of rod, boat, lure, or
sunscreen he's promoting? That would be nice. Do some products actually help
one catch bass. Sure they do; there is some science in this sport, after
all. But much of what we surround ourselves with in our bass fishing culture
is just there for our entertainment and amusement.

As long as you keep all this straight, I think the ethics of endorsements
becomes less of a weighty matter.

Joe

[Craig]

It is all about selling. Endorsing something you wouldn't use personally,
yet you feel is still a good product is OK in my book, because I do it
everyday. KVD has a signature line of products that he never uses in a
tournament situation. Yet, he feels it is a good product for the money.
Morally, ethically he is OK in my book.

When I'm selling GM product I push the positives of that product and down
play its negative. I do the same thing when I sell a Ford, or any other
product we sell. I'm getting paid to do just that. Morally, ethically
wrong? Not in my book, because both products do have good features and both
have their negative. It is the same with fishing products and anglers. They
simply point out the product's positives and if you feel those positives are
what you are looking for, GREAT!

--
Craig Baugher

[Bob La Londe]

"Craig" > wrote in message
...
> It is all about selling. Endorsing something you wouldn't use personally,
> yet you feel is still a good product is OK in my book, because I do it
> everyday. KVD has a signature line of products that he never uses in a
> tournament situation. Yet, he feels it is a good product for the money.
> Morally, ethically he is OK in my book.
>
> When I'm selling GM product I push the positives of that product and down
> play its negative. I do the same thing when I sell a Ford, or any other
> product we sell. I'm getting paid to do just that. Morally, ethically
> wrong? Not in my book, because both products do have good features and
both
> have their negative. It is the same with fishing products and anglers.

Can I remind you of this next time I see Rdoney pushing the positives of his
Dragon Fly or Boomerang lures?

LOL

Actually I think Rodney is a thinking fisherman. Not a bass focused guy and
certainly a little weird, but he is always thinking.

--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Promote Your Fishing, Boating, or Guide Site for Free
Simply add it to our index page.
No reciprocal link required. (Requested, but not required)

[Bob La Londe]

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Josh" > wrote in message <SNIP>
> >
> > I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> > inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> > just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor?
Just
> > wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
>
> My personal opinion is that it's not right to endorse a product and/or
service/company if the
> endorsee (?) doesn't use it. Now, this is just me speaking for myself,
but as many of you know, I'm
> working on getting sponsors for my hopefully soon to air television show.
It takes a great deal of
> money to get a show on the air and in order to do so, I need sponsors and
their corresponding funds.
> BUT, I'm not going to sign a contract unless it is a quality item that I
would consider using
> personally.
>
> A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a
sponsorship package of two boats
> and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only
problem with the whole deal
> was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I
am a fiberglass
> performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in
this rig, anyone that knew
> me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that!
So I politely declined,
> and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but
disappointed at the same time.

I'ld have to say that glass boats certainly have their place. I have two of
them, (The Skeeter is for sale) but a well rounded TV show might need to be
open to possibilites that aren't necessarily your own. You might consider
other options. An aluminum jet would be the perfect boat in some
circumstances. I love my Baker tunnel hull, but I just ordered a Waco 16
for back water running myself. If you could have balanced that out with the
potential sponsor you might have been able to offer more and serve more
useful information to more viewers. JMHO.

I do understand your view, and I agree with you. I'm just not sure that you
shouldn't be open to other possibilities in your base choice about glass
boats.

--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Promote Your Fishing, Boating, or Guide Site for Free
Simply add it to our index page.
No reciprocal link required. (Requested, but not required)

[alwayfishking]

Well said Joe, and to this day I still bring some jerky with me out on the
boat even if I don't want to eat it. Just because that was about the best
thing we had going that day out on boom...at least until the trolling motor
died, then it was the second best thing we had going. Thanks for the Jerky
Joe. It was a good day
"Joe Haubenreich" > wrote in message
...
> "Josh" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip> Just wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
> -------------
> Josh, this got me thinking.... Warning: this turned out to be a long
> response.
>
> In my reply to Jack, I stated my belief that scents are ineffective in
> attracting bass. That's not to say they don't make a difference in your
> fishing. Here's a distinction that may be obvious to most readers already:
> while scents may not influence the hunted, they undoubtedly have an impact
> on the hunt.
>
> Wouldn't you say a whole lot of what we do as anglers falls in the
category
> of ritual rather than true fishing science? I think one of the things we
> enjoy about our sport is that it has evolved its own bass angling culture.
> And as with every culture, this one has its rituals. Some are grounded in
> fact... others in mystical lore and superstition.
>
> Pistol Pete Maravitch wore the same pair of gym socks (without laundering)
> to keep his winning streak going. Construction workers top out a building
> with a conifer tree. Blood from his first deer is (in some cultures)
smeared
> on a young hunter's face. Religious people practice rituals to greet the
> day, celebrate a meal, initiate special events, invoke blessing for
travel,
> and so forth. The boys I grew up with could be counted on to produce a
> buckeye among the contents of their jeans pockets, and they usually
carried
> a lucky marble or stone, too.
>
> Just as native Americans stepping out of their wickiup tapped the deerskin
> pouch hung by a thong around their neck or belted at their side to make
> certain their talismans were secure, I pat my pocket as I head to the
truck
> to make sure my old pocket knife -- not just any knife, but the "right"
> one -- is in its place. The familiar shape that wears a hole over the
pocket
> of every pair of jeans I own confers a sense of "everything is in its
> place."
>
> Some bass anglers feel unprepared if they're not wearing their lucky hats,
> shirts, or shoes. Others, noticing that the landing net seems often to be
> out of reach when they hang onto a big bass, deliberately leave it in the
> rod locker in order to increase their odds. I have an unreasonable
> preference for my red Ambassadeur reels over the plain aluminum
> ones, even through the guts are identical since I've long ago replaced all
> the brass bushings with ball bearings.
>
> One of Bubba's bass fishing rituals was to reach down, pick up a bottle,
and
> pump one spray of anise-scented oil on his lure every tenth cast. Do these
> rituals affect the fish? That's doubtful. Do they increase our catch rate.
> If they serve to relax or focus us so that we feel more comfortable and
are
> mentally better prepared to react to opportunities the bass present, then
> maybe they do.
>
> A whiff of anise has the power to transport me back through the years.
Once
> or twice each season, I'll rummage deep in my tackle box, pull out a
small,
> yellowed plastic bottle, and squirt a few drops of the scent on my bait
just
> to conjure up the shades of my long-departed friend and of the huge bass
we
> caught together. Does it help me catch bass? Who cares? It helps me enjoy
my
> fishing experience.
>
> Should a manufacturer stop making "feel good" products, or should we
anglers
> be made to feel like idiots for having and using them? Of course not.
After
> all, this is a "feel good" sport we engage in -- not one based on our need
> for meat or driven entirely on effectiveness, performance, and
productivity.
> In the final analysis, most of us fish to relax, achieve some sort of
> harmony, relieve stress, or enjoy our solitude for awhile. If rituals
helps
> us achieve that, then we're probably going to keep on observing them --
even
> though someone correctly points out that the rituals in themselves have no
> discernable effect on our quarry.
>
> If an angler feels like smearing his body with rotton shad and earthworms,
> aligning the equipment just so on his boat deck, coating his baits with
> scented oils, painting his face blue, and chanting Gaelic war songs as he
> leaves the ramp and he thinks any of this will help him achieve his
> objectives, I say more power to him.... sit back and enjoy the show.
>
> Now.... about endorsements. Repeat after me.... "It's all entertainment."
>
> TV news.... entertainment. TV news reporting is not about the pursuit of
> truth, but about ratings. Ratings drive profits, and entertainment value
> drive ratings.
>
> Bass tournaments and all other sports.... entertainment.
>
> Product placements.... entertainment.
>
> Technological advancements in fishing gear, electronics, boats and
> motors.... entertainment.
>
> Pros don't sell products; mostly they sell dreams. They sell "be like me."
> Remember "I wanna be like Mike"? Five foot-eight inch me wearing a Chicago
> Bulls jersey and Nikes had absolutely no chance of dunking a basketball,
> much less playing in the NBA, but who cares? I may buy some Kelly
> Springfield tires for my pickup one of these days. Think they'll help me
> catch bass like Hank Parker? Should I put the battery in my boat that
Jimmy
> Houston has in his? Would it help to have the make of boat that Kevin Van
> Dam drives. Will they help me be a better bass angler? Sure they will....
> about as much as coating my baits with anise-flavored oil. My point is
just
> this -- a pro who is hired to promote a product or does so on his
television
> show is selling a dream, and people who want to buy into the dream
purchase
> and use the products. Should a pro prefer the brand of rod, boat, lure, or
> sunscreen he's promoting? That would be nice. Do some products actually
help
> one catch bass. Sure they do; there is some science in this sport, after
> all. But much of what we surround ourselves with in our bass fishing
culture
> is just there for our entertainment and amusement.
>
> As long as you keep all this straight, I think the ethics of endorsements
> becomes less of a weighty matter.
>
> Joe
>
>

[John Kerr]

I don't judge a pro's morality as relates to endorsements...it is part
of the business. I do respect honesty though. I like my son's attitude,
he is on staff with Strike Pro lures, and has several signature lures
out by them...but when he won the Open, and they did a big feature on
him, John insisted that they tell the real story...he was fishing a
Spook, not a Strike Pro lure. He did go on to say that Strike Pro makes
some of his favorite lures, and that he fishes them consistently. I was
impressed that Strike Pro went along with it and published it as John
insisted on. (Although they did get the bottom line in their favor,
"Open winner prefers Strike Pro lures!) in BIG print <g>. I think every
individual decides for themselves what level of morality they adhere
to...and I certainly wouldn't judge that decision. I personally take
endorsements with a grain of salt.
As for scents...I have no idea of the effectiveness, I have used them,
but my confidence is more in the selection and "presentation" of the
bait than anything else!
JK

[Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers]

"Bob La Londe" > wrote in message<SNIP>
>
> I'ld have to say that glass boats certainly have their place. I have two of
> them, (The Skeeter is for sale) but a well rounded TV show might need to be
> open to possibilites that aren't necessarily your own. You might consider
> other options. An aluminum jet would be the perfect boat in some
> circumstances. I love my Baker tunnel hull, but I just ordered a Waco 16
> for back water running myself. If you could have balanced that out with the
> potential sponsor you might have been able to offer more and serve more
> useful information to more viewers. JMHO.
>
> I do understand your view, and I agree with you. I'm just not sure that you
> shouldn't be open to other possibilities in your base choice about glass
> boats.

Oh, I'm not saying that I won't ever film a show from anything other than a glass boat. That's not
it and if circumstances warrant a change, i.e. sturgeon fishing on the Snake River, or fishing some
remote backwater, I'll certainly use what is appropriate. But, much of what I'll be doing can be
done from a glass boat. I might have to reconsider my choices and go with more of a multi-species
boat.

The ultimate would be to get a sponsor that has both a glass and aluminum line of boats and get one
of each! Any offers? :-)
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

[Bob La Londe]

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob La Londe" > wrote in message<SNIP>
> >
> > I'ld have to say that glass boats certainly have their place. I have
two of
> > them, (The Skeeter is for sale) but a well rounded TV show might need to
be
> > open to possibilites that aren't necessarily your own. You might
consider
> > other options. An aluminum jet would be the perfect boat in some
> > circumstances. I love my Baker tunnel hull, but I just ordered a Waco
16
> > for back water running myself. If you could have balanced that out with
the
> > potential sponsor you might have been able to offer more and serve more
> > useful information to more viewers. JMHO.
> >
> > I do understand your view, and I agree with you. I'm just not sure that
you
> > shouldn't be open to other possibilities in your base choice about glass
> > boats.
>
> Oh, I'm not saying that I won't ever film a show from anything other than
a glass boat. That's not
> it and if circumstances warrant a change, i.e. sturgeon fishing on the
Snake River, or fishing some
> remote backwater, I'll certainly use what is appropriate. But, much of
what I'll be doing can be
> done from a glass boat. I might have to reconsider my choices and go with
more of a multi-species
> boat.
>
> The ultimate would be to get a sponsor that has both a glass and aluminum
line of boats and get one
> of each! Any offers? :-)
> --

You said aluminum jet. I know of lots of aluminum boats, but can think off
hand of only one that has a jet boat setup for fishing. They have both. In
fact I considered buying one earlier this year.



--
The Security Consultant
http://www.diycomponents.com
Bob La Londe - Owner
849 S Ave C
Yuma, Az 85364

(928)782-9765 ofc
(928)782-7873 fax

[Craig]

I never had a problem with Rodney. I like the old Goat Farmer. I don't
have a problem with anybody that wants to sell anything fishing related
here. But the charter police will give you a hard time.
--
Craig Baugher

[Dark Knight]

Steve,

My uncle favours the expression "Don't ever bend over Lad. It's too damn
hard to stand up straight again."

Thanks for proving that it's not so hard to stay standing straight. I think
that in this day and age there is tremendous pressure to "bend over". Look
at the situation you are dealing with. Most would have hit their knees for
that deal, but you politely turned it aside, and I'll guarantee you that it
will pay off in the end. Although there are many that will think you a
fool, there are many more that will sign on with you because you have
something that the others don't - integrity.

Keep the faith.

DK


"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Josh" > wrote in message <SNIP>
> >
> > I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
> > inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
> > just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor?
Just
> > wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
>
> My personal opinion is that it's not right to endorse a product and/or
service/company if the
> endorsee (?) doesn't use it. Now, this is just me speaking for myself,
but as many of you know, I'm
> working on getting sponsors for my hopefully soon to air television show.
It takes a great deal of
> money to get a show on the air and in order to do so, I need sponsors and
their corresponding funds.
> BUT, I'm not going to sign a contract unless it is a quality item that I
would consider using
> personally.
>
> A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a
sponsorship package of two boats
> and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only
problem with the whole deal
> was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I
am a fiberglass
> performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in
this rig, anyone that knew
> me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that!
So I politely declined,
> and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but
disappointed at the same time.
>
> I'm not going to even remotely attempt to impose my morals and beliefs on
someone else. I feel that
> it's MY reputation on the line if I endorse something and I won't risk my
reputation for something
> as trivial as cash or some trinkets. Reputation is like virginity, once
it's gone, there's nothing
> that can get it back.
>
> But that's just my opinion,
> --
> Steve
> OutdoorFrontiers
> http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
> G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
> http://www.herefishyfishy.com
>
>

[Dark Knight]

As the head of Innovative, I agree with Brad. If I ever caught one of my
people using someone else's product - someone that doesn't help pay their
bills - over someone that does, they'd be toast!!! (Yes, I have fired
people for doing this.)

Now, before anyone suggests that it's just about the money, it's not.
Anything that Innovative gets involved with is carefully selected, after a
great deal of testing, and considerable thought. If it doesn't work,
Innovative shouldn't be promoting it. If it does, then there is NO reason
not to be using, regardless of the amount that particular client pays.

DK

"Brad Coovert" > wrote in message
...
> I sell products and would never think of selling anything that I would not
use
> myself.
>
> IMO, pros who endorse products they would not or do not use have no
integrity
> and their opinion is worth zip.
>
> Companies who let such things happen, ie, they let a pro endorse them even
> though the pro coiuld care less about the product, are just as bad.
>
> Brad
> Brad Coovert, 2003 Angler of the Year, Greenfield Bassmasters
> Please visit our sponsors:
> http://www.geocities.com/greenfieldbass/WelcomeToOurSponsorPage.htm
> Indianapolis Colts over Tennessee Titans 33-7, 29-27 Go Colts!
>
>

[Dark Knight]

Sorry Warren, but I'd have to disagree with you. I wouldn't buy a Chevy
from a salesperson that doesn't drive one.

DK
"go-bassn" > wrote in message
...
> If you think about it Josh, it's really no different than a Ford salesman
> that drives a Chevy to work. I'm not endorsing the practice, but it's
> definately no crime.
>
> Warren
> --
> http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
> http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
> http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/
>
> "Josh" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Very interesting Rich. I'll continue to use I guess mostly because
of
> > the psychological boost it gives me. Appreciate your insights as always.
> >
> > And it's pretty obvious that other major league sports figures don't
> > always use what they endorse. My question was directed at our sport and
> > those who've attained some degree of success in it professionally.
> >
> > --
> > God Bless America
> >
> > Josh The Bad Bear
> >
> >
>
>

[Craig]

and how would you know?

--
Craig Baugher

[go-bassn]

lol DK, you can buy a Chevy from anyone. I've been in one for 4 months, and
I doubt I'll ever get out of one.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Dark Knight" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry Warren, but I'd have to disagree with you. I wouldn't buy a Chevy
> from a salesperson that doesn't drive one.
>
> DK
> "go-bassn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If you think about it Josh, it's really no different than a Ford
salesman
> > that drives a Chevy to work. I'm not endorsing the practice, but it's
> > definately no crime.
> >
> > Warren
> > --
> > http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
> > http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
> > http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/
> >
> > "Josh" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Very interesting Rich. I'll continue to use I guess mostly because
> of
> > > the psychological boost it gives me. Appreciate your insights as
always.
> > >
> > > And it's pretty obvious that other major league sports figures
don't
> > > always use what they endorse. My question was directed at our sport
and
> > > those who've attained some degree of success in it professionally.
> > >
> > > --
> > > God Bless America
> > >
> > > Josh The Bad Bear
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[go-bassn]

Joe the wise, you always have a way with words.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Joe Haubenreich" > wrote in message
...
> "Josh" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip> Just wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
> --
> God Bless America
>
> Josh The Bad Bear
> -------------
> Josh, this got me thinking.... Warning: this turned out to be a long
> response.
>
> In my reply to Jack, I stated my belief that scents are ineffective in
> attracting bass. That's not to say they don't make a difference in your
> fishing. Here's a distinction that may be obvious to most readers already:
> while scents may not influence the hunted, they undoubtedly have an impact
> on the hunt.
>
> Wouldn't you say a whole lot of what we do as anglers falls in the
category
> of ritual rather than true fishing science? I think one of the things we
> enjoy about our sport is that it has evolved its own bass angling culture.
> And as with every culture, this one has its rituals. Some are grounded in
> fact... others in mystical lore and superstition.
>
> Pistol Pete Maravitch wore the same pair of gym socks (without laundering)
> to keep his winning streak going. Construction workers top out a building
> with a conifer tree. Blood from his first deer is (in some cultures)
smeared
> on a young hunter's face. Religious people practice rituals to greet the
> day, celebrate a meal, initiate special events, invoke blessing for
travel,
> and so forth. The boys I grew up with could be counted on to produce a
> buckeye among the contents of their jeans pockets, and they usually
carried
> a lucky marble or stone, too.
>
> Just as native Americans stepping out of their wickiup tapped the deerskin
> pouch hung by a thong around their neck or belted at their side to make
> certain their talismans were secure, I pat my pocket as I head to the
truck
> to make sure my old pocket knife -- not just any knife, but the "right"
> one -- is in its place. The familiar shape that wears a hole over the
pocket
> of every pair of jeans I own confers a sense of "everything is in its
> place."
>
> Some bass anglers feel unprepared if they're not wearing their lucky hats,
> shirts, or shoes. Others, noticing that the landing net seems often to be
> out of reach when they hang onto a big bass, deliberately leave it in the
> rod locker in order to increase their odds. I have an unreasonable
> preference for my red Ambassadeur reels over the plain aluminum
> ones, even through the guts are identical since I've long ago replaced all
> the brass bushings with ball bearings.
>
> One of Bubba's bass fishing rituals was to reach down, pick up a bottle,
and
> pump one spray of anise-scented oil on his lure every tenth cast. Do these
> rituals affect the fish? That's doubtful. Do they increase our catch rate.
> If they serve to relax or focus us so that we feel more comfortable and
are
> mentally better prepared to react to opportunities the bass present, then
> maybe they do.
>
> A whiff of anise has the power to transport me back through the years.
Once
> or twice each season, I'll rummage deep in my tackle box, pull out a
small,
> yellowed plastic bottle, and squirt a few drops of the scent on my bait
just
> to conjure up the shades of my long-departed friend and of the huge bass
we
> caught together. Does it help me catch bass? Who cares? It helps me enjoy
my
> fishing experience.
>
> Should a manufacturer stop making "feel good" products, or should we
anglers
> be made to feel like idiots for having and using them? Of course not.
After
> all, this is a "feel good" sport we engage in -- not one based on our need
> for meat or driven entirely on effectiveness, performance, and
productivity.
> In the final analysis, most of us fish to relax, achieve some sort of
> harmony, relieve stress, or enjoy our solitude for awhile. If rituals
helps
> us achieve that, then we're probably going to keep on observing them --
even
> though someone correctly points out that the rituals in themselves have no
> discernable effect on our quarry.
>
> If an angler feels like smearing his body with rotton shad and earthworms,
> aligning the equipment just so on his boat deck, coating his baits with
> scented oils, painting his face blue, and chanting Gaelic war songs as he
> leaves the ramp and he thinks any of this will help him achieve his
> objectives, I say more power to him.... sit back and enjoy the show.
>
> Now.... about endorsements. Repeat after me.... "It's all entertainment."
>
> TV news.... entertainment. TV news reporting is not about the pursuit of
> truth, but about ratings. Ratings drive profits, and entertainment value
> drive ratings.
>
> Bass tournaments and all other sports.... entertainment.
>
> Product placements.... entertainment.
>
> Technological advancements in fishing gear, electronics, boats and
> motors.... entertainment.
>
> Pros don't sell products; mostly they sell dreams. They sell "be like me."
> Remember "I wanna be like Mike"? Five foot-eight inch me wearing a Chicago
> Bulls jersey and Nikes had absolutely no chance of dunking a basketball,
> much less playing in the NBA, but who cares? I may buy some Kelly
> Springfield tires for my pickup one of these days. Think they'll help me
> catch bass like Hank Parker? Should I put the battery in my boat that
Jimmy
> Houston has in his? Would it help to have the make of boat that Kevin Van
> Dam drives. Will they help me be a better bass angler? Sure they will....
> about as much as coating my baits with anise-flavored oil. My point is
just
> this -- a pro who is hired to promote a product or does so on his
television
> show is selling a dream, and people who want to buy into the dream
purchase
> and use the products. Should a pro prefer the brand of rod, boat, lure, or
> sunscreen he's promoting? That would be nice. Do some products actually
help
> one catch bass. Sure they do; there is some science in this sport, after
> all. But much of what we surround ourselves with in our bass fishing
culture
> is just there for our entertainment and amusement.
>
> As long as you keep all this straight, I think the ethics of endorsements
> becomes less of a weighty matter.
>
> Joe
>
>

[go-bassn]

I'm just waiting for Rich Z to chime in so we can resume the gasoline
challenge.

John Kerr, you know your stuff.

If you want to know the morality & (more importantly) personality of a pro,
go fishing with him. In fact, if you want to get to know anyone...

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"John Kerr" > wrote in message
...
> I don't judge a pro's morality as relates to endorsements...it is part
> of the business. I do respect honesty though. I like my son's attitude,
> he is on staff with Strike Pro lures, and has several signature lures
> out by them...but when he won the Open, and they did a big feature on
> him, John insisted that they tell the real story...he was fishing a
> Spook, not a Strike Pro lure. He did go on to say that Strike Pro makes
> some of his favorite lures, and that he fishes them consistently. I was
> impressed that Strike Pro went along with it and published it as John
> insisted on. (Although they did get the bottom line in their favor,
> "Open winner prefers Strike Pro lures!) in BIG print <g>. I think every
> individual decides for themselves what level of morality they adhere
> to...and I certainly wouldn't judge that decision. I personally take
> endorsements with a grain of salt.
> As for scents...I have no idea of the effectiveness, I have used them,
> but my confidence is more in the selection and "presentation" of the
> bait than anything else!
> JK
>

[go-bassn]

They're all over wherever you have a rocky river Bob, especially in the
northland. I had a jet on my aluminum rig for a few years, fun toy. They
work especially well on aluminum tunnel-drives.

Warren

--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Bob La Londe" > wrote in message
s.com...
> "Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob La Londe" > wrote in message<SNIP>
> > >
> > > I'ld have to say that glass boats certainly have their place. I have
> two of
> > > them, (The Skeeter is for sale) but a well rounded TV show might need
to
> be
> > > open to possibilites that aren't necessarily your own. You might
> consider
> > > other options. An aluminum jet would be the perfect boat in some
> > > circumstances. I love my Baker tunnel hull, but I just ordered a Waco
> 16
> > > for back water running myself. If you could have balanced that out
with
> the
> > > potential sponsor you might have been able to offer more and serve
more
> > > useful information to more viewers. JMHO.
> > >
> > > I do understand your view, and I agree with you. I'm just not sure
that
> you
> > > shouldn't be open to other possibilities in your base choice about
glass
> > > boats.
> >
> > Oh, I'm not saying that I won't ever film a show from anything other
than
> a glass boat. That's not
> > it and if circumstances warrant a change, i.e. sturgeon fishing on the
> Snake River, or fishing some
> > remote backwater, I'll certainly use what is appropriate. But, much of
> what I'll be doing can be
> > done from a glass boat. I might have to reconsider my choices and go
with
> more of a multi-species
> > boat.
> >
> > The ultimate would be to get a sponsor that has both a glass and
aluminum
> line of boats and get one
> > of each! Any offers? :-)
> > --
>
> You said aluminum jet. I know of lots of aluminum boats, but can think
off
> hand of only one that has a jet boat setup for fishing. They have both.
In
> fact I considered buying one earlier this year.
>
>
>
> --
> The Security Consultant
> http://www.diycomponents.com
> Bob La Londe - Owner
> 849 S Ave C
> Yuma, Az 85364
>
> (928)782-9765 ofc
> (928)782-7873 fax
>
>

[go-bassn]

Rodney has brown eyes.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Craig" > wrote in message
...
> I never had a problem with Rodney. I like the old Goat Farmer. I don't
> have a problem with anybody that wants to sell anything fishing related
> here. But the charter police will give you a hard time.
> --
> Craig Baugher
>
>

[go-bassn]

Absolutely Rich. These guys are working just like us. Roland Martin jumped
ship from Ranger to Triton in the blink of an eye. No problem there.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"RG" > wrote in message
...
> I'd guess that you could apply the "THIS is GOOD! " program to every pro
in
> every sport for everything they endorse.
>
> Is a Merc a better engine that Johns/Suz/Yam/issan ??? or does the pro
ride
> it because he either gets paid or gets the
> motor/boat/bait/reel/rod/shirt/pants/tacklebox/etc etc. cheaper or even
for
> free?? Of course he gets a "deal" to endorse the product.
> Better not stop at scents.
>
> Does Tiger Woods reeaaalllly use Nike clubs or whatever??? Perhaps not...
> I've heard that they are made to the specs of some other brand of club
that
> he liked. You and I can't even buy the same thing. At least I can buy the
> same scents, if I want to ( I think ).
>
> The reality is... if the guy is a pro, he is endorsing SOMETHING that may
or
> may not work as well for us as it does for him. The simple answer is a
pro
> is a pro and has to do it to make his living doing what he loves. It is
NO
> different in baseball, football, ( do you really think those ugly nose
> bandages help a running back run?? ) or tennis, etc..
>
> A well sponsored pro is a well paid ( you insert the WORD of your choice
> here), and everyone knows it. It, unfortunately, is the sports program
that
> we all support by buying the same stuff that they sell. But, sell it is..
> the product may or may not really work as well as the pro makes
out.....and
> I suspect everyone knows that.
>
> RichG
>
>
>
>
>

[COOLLURES]

Have scent impregnated lures worked? Yes...... I perfer to make them with
scent in them.

But as people who know me also know the idea behind my thought of scents.

Garlic..... Cover scent only, we dont use it for more or we would be using
it as bait.

Shad/craw... Both are great. Bass do eat both of them. I have been working
on a swim bait and use a unreal shad scent in them.

Anise.. well, this one has a great option built in to it too. Both as a
cover scent and atracting.

Spray on,,,,,, Gee get it wet and it just comes off. (a no brainer here)

Have it cooked into the plastic and it doesnt come out and lasts for a long
time.

This is how I use scents int he baits I make. Ask the people who went up to
the NWC, or even ask Steve, He has done some damage with them.

Jeff

--
COOL LURES
The Lures that put FISH on ICE!
www.coollures.com