wrote in message
oups.com...

What am I not understanding here? I feel like I'm comfortable nymphing
with a distance of about 4' between the indicator and fly, and really
no more. But of course that doesn't get me down very deep at all.

Bruiser is the man for deep drifting nymphs with an indicator. He's got it
down but I've never really gotten it. When it gets that deep, I like to be
more in control so I try to get more over the nymph, have shorter effective
drifts, and don't use a strike indicator. I use a tuck cast to drive the
nymph down to compensate for having shorter drifts. Or at least just leave
it on and move it way up out of the way. Bruiser uses a semi-permanent
indicator, which is part of what I don't get about it :-)

"Wayne Harrison" wrote in message
...

ya know, i just can't resist the opportunity to soapbox on some of this
"nymphing technique" as it relates to fishing with a fly rod.

at some point (and for me, it's after one lead ball), this leaves the
world of "fysshing with a flye", or whatever, and enters the world of
"catch the *******s anyway you can".

if one wants, or needs, to start adding chunks of lead to a line, very
early on a lightweight spinning rod becomes, quite obviously, a much more
efficient tool; and more stylish, to boot.

There's a lot of merit to that, which is exactly why I'm not into fly
fishing for bass much. Fly fishing is supposed to be a means to an end
(casting a lure that's too light to cast), not an end in itself. Still, I
think the length of the fly rod and heavier fly line can help move a
weighted nymph around. But Joe Humphreys sometimes uses straight mono for
deep nymph fishing, at which point it merely becomes a convenience of
changing out a spool, rather than carrying 2 rods on the stream with you.

wrote in message
oups.com...

OK, obviously there's some amount of weight that is too much. But I'm
just wondering if I should always try to err on the side of extra
weight.

Learn the tuck cast first, and how to make a good nymph leader (the thinner
it is for long sections, the better it will sink quickly and not drag.) You
might also want to read up on Frank Sawyer's *original* pheasant tail nymph
design and how it affected sink rate.

jeffc wrote:

Bruiser uses a semi-permanent
indicator, which is part of what I don't get about it :-)

He's a Fish Pimp guy now. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Wayne Harrison wrote:

i can't believe that the same guy who tied those amazing, tiny flies
that you sent to me can withstand the grotesque feeling of launching an
ounce or so of lead with a fly at the end of the chain...

An ounce or so? Get real.

A couple of #4s is just about all you'll need, except for runoff conditions.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:24:19 -0600, rw wrote:

jeffc wrote:

Bruiser uses a semi-permanent
indicator, which is part of what I don't get about it :-)

He's a Fish Pimp guy now. :-)

They're anything but permanent, that's for sure. At the SJ in Jan the water was
full of free floating ones. g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 03:58:17 GMT, "Wayne Harrison"
wrote:

i can't believe that the same guy who tied those amazing, tiny flies
that you sent to me can withstand the grotesque feeling of launching an
ounce or so of lead with a fly at the end of the chain...

An ounce or so? You've been drinking too many "see-throughs". I fish
with a 4 weight, and there is no way I can cast an ounce of weight.
And what's this stuff about a "chain?" I'll bet I'm using a lighter
tippet than you, mfitons.

(Jo gives you a sleepy "Hi.")

"rw" wrote in message
m...
Wayne Harrison wrote:

i can't believe that the same guy who tied those amazing, tiny flies
that you sent to me can withstand the grotesque feeling of launching an
ounce or so of lead with a fly at the end of the chain...

An ounce or so? Get real.

A couple of #4s is just about all you'll need, except for runoff
conditions.

I believe there may be a bit of a misunderstanding here, occasioned by
Wayno's (entirely understandable) lack of familiarity with Western
conditions and metric/Western conversions. I'm pretty sure he meant
"liter".

Wolfgang
good god, the boy is.......well, you know.

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 03:58:17 GMT, "Wayne Harrison"
wrote:



An ounce or so? You've been drinking too many "see-throughs". I fish
with a 4 weight, and there is no way I can cast an ounce of weight.

sigh... i know that, louie. even hyperbole can be too subtle for the
dedicated nympher.

And what's this stuff about a "chain?" I'll bet I'm using a lighter
tippet than you, mfitons.

sigh, again. the "chain" references fly line, leader, indicator, lead
weight...links, not weight.

(Jo gives you a sleepy "Hi.")

"hi" back, to the queen of the world.

yfitons
wayno

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:24:19 -0600, rw
wrote:

jeffc wrote:

Bruiser uses a semi-permanent
indicator, which is part of what I don't get about it :-)

He's a Fish Pimp guy now. :-)

They're anything but permanent, that's for sure. At the SJ in Jan the
water was
full of free floating ones. g
Charlie...

Heh . . .heh . . .last time I was fishing the San Juan . . .I should have
been paid for all of them I picked up. I lost one, of cork, not accurately
attached, but was fishing a reverse current so it went upstream and then
came right back to me. My fishing partner couldn't believe it when I told
him it would do so.

When I used to teach some of this stuff, I normally taught without
indicators, because there is more control through the water column with each
cast, depending on where the fish are keying on food. And I use weight to
get to the fish . . .or sometimes no weight at all when fishing nymphs.

And now the scary stuff. When I want to have fun I sight fish to rising
fish, with a dry and maybe a dropper. When I want to catch big fish, I go
subsurface (uhh . . .well no . . . not like a Reid), but to get the fly to
the fish. . .but still I like sight fishing . . .whatever depth, see the
fish, go for that fish.

Indicators in my opinion, can get you to the fish, sometimes pretty
effectively. Out here there seems to be a lot of wind, after 11:00 AM or
so depending on the altitude I'm fishing.
So the place, and conditions, all come into play.

I seem to fish more dries now . But I have fished indicators up to 12 feet
or so okay in still water. Others have done well up to 15 feet. . .so they
told me.

I have caught some nice trout with a 12 foot leader in some deep pools in
this area of Colorado, or Utah, in rivers with nymph flies, without
indicator.
Ya better practice a bit. (high sticking and low sticking)
Mending and weight and rig, and line)
DaveMohnsen
Denver
(uhh . . .anymore I kind of suggest to beginners to use a 7 and 1/2 foot
leader with an 18-24 inch tippet attached to the original leader, for trout
here. Not what I use, but a start. My standard rod for here is a 9 foot
rod, with a long leader, and tippet.
I seem to carry mostly a rod 4,5,6, for trout, a bit more for pike.) Gotta a
3, but haven't put it together yet.

Kinda of a neat thread in my humble mind.
Thanks folks.
BestWishes,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:39:14 -0500, "Wolfgang"
wrote:

Leisenring.....Leisenring.....um......dead guy?......used to fly
fish?.....downstream, with a nymph?.....that Leisenring?


d;o)

Danl wrote:


I prefer using #10 - #18 LWSHs (Lead Weight Substitute Holders) sold at most
fly shops, but sometimes by other names. Most come with a convenient built
in barb-like doohickey that assist in holding the LWS onto the
hoo....err...LWSH.



last year, just below the dam on the madison above cabin creek
campground, there was an older fella (shutup) about 50 yards ahead of me
fishing with a downstream sweep. i was moving along the mountain side
currents. he was catching a fish...some big ones...on almost every
cast. i was...er...wasn't catching anything but a few bruises. i
thought he was swinging wets. no one else in the area was catching
anything. i changed flies 10 or more times before i neared the *******.
when he brought a fish in, i brazenly cast into his lanes as he
concentrated on unhooking his catch. nothing. i looked closer to make
sure his feet were below the water surface. yup, a mere mortal.
whatthefukwashedoin?? when i finally got close enough, i couldn't stand
it any longer, and i asked what he was using....

says he: "i'm cheating today, wanted to catch a few...salmon eggs".

says a bewildered i: "uh...what color?" g

once up close enough to see, i discovered that what i thought was simply
a peculiar fly cleaning gesture made after releasing each fish was
actually the motion used in opening a little jar, retrieving an egg, and
placing it on a lwsh.

hell, i didn't know the madison had salmon egg-layers in it! BG
but the trout sure did love those eggs...

jeff

rw wrote:

Wayne Harrison wrote:


i can't believe that the same guy who tied those amazing, tiny
flies that you sent to me can withstand the grotesque feeling of
launching an ounce or so of lead with a fly at the end of the chain...


An ounce or so? Get real.

A couple of #4s is just about all you'll need, except for runoff
conditions.


....and, um, when did obvious hyperbole around here require a "get real"
response? lighten up a bit rw... at times, in your bob-and-weave with
wayno, you seem pulled tighter than my sphincter whenever i board an
airplane. of one thing i'm sure...wayno knows the relative value and
importance of an ounce...and of fishing with and without lead weight.

jeff

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:15:32 -0400, Jeff Miller
wrote:

rw wrote:

Wayne Harrison wrote:


i can't believe that the same guy who tied those amazing, tiny
flies that you sent to me can withstand the grotesque feeling of
launching an ounce or so of lead with a fly at the end of the chain...


An ounce or so? Get real.

A couple of #4s is just about all you'll need, except for runoff
conditions.


of one thing i'm sure...wayno knows the relative value and
importance of an ounce...

Oh, lordy, the possibilities, the possibilities...

"yeah, 1/4 of a well-made see-through..."
"anything more is felony in these states:..."
etc., etc....

At least he didn't say "an eight-ball of lead..."

TC,
R

"Jeff Miller" wrote


...and, um, when did obvious hyperbole around here require a "get real"
response? lighten up a bit rw... at times, in your bob-and-weave with
wayno, you seem pulled tighter than my sphincter whenever i board an
airplane.

the thing about it that is beginning to scare the hell out of me is that
his pattern is clearly taking on a dead replica for the phrase "having a
hard on" for someone...

yfitons
wayno (glad you had a good trip; i had fun in pitt county this weekend).

Wayne Harrison wrote:

yfitons
wayno (glad you had a good trip; i had fun in pitt county this weekend).



penns was a lot of fun this year. sorry you and jim weren't able to make
it. the hatch was worth seeing. one night, the hatch changed the air
around me...didn't just fill the air, but "changed" it.


jeff

Willi,
I concur.
One thing... "read the water" when casting upstream. Calculate how fast the
nymph will sink in the given flow condition.
Guy

There's LOTS of ways of nymphing but USUALLY when you're fishing with an
indicator and weight you want to get your nymph dead drifting along the
bottom. That means that the distance between your indicator has to be
greater than the water depth (unless you're using an indicator that
gets submerged which can be a good tactic). There's a balance that you
try and strike among a variety of things - water depth, current speed,
amount of weight, distance between your fly and the indicator, thickness
of your leader, etc. So that means that there are a variety of ways to
get your nymph drifting along the bottom. For example if you want your
nymph drifting deeper, you can add more weight or lengthen the
distance between the indicator and fly or go with a lighter tippet or
make a longer cast or..... You got a good range of responses from a
range of people. All the advice you've gotten is good, even though it
may seem contradictory. There is more than one way to gut a rat.

The way I do it is a bit different from what the other people have
brought up. I don't like to fling a bunch of weight, so I try and set up
my rig so that I can get my flies to the bottom with as little weight as
possible. When indicator nymphing I use LONG tippets often up to 6 feet,
sometimes more. This thinner material sinks MUCH easier than the thick
sections at the butt of a leader, allows a more natural drift, makes for
better contact with the drifting nymph and also makes it easier to
detect strikes. I also believe that only on part(s) of any drift will
your fly be dead drifting along the bottom. I try and gauge the length
of my cast so the fly is most likely to be dead drifting when it reaches
the area that I think is most likely to hold a fish.

Willi

Willi's taught me to use less lead and more tippet and mending to make
the fly sink. If I can see fish I like to sight fish with nymphs and
try to drift em right into the fishes mouth a la Andy Kim.

It is a bummer to chuck a bunch of lead all day. My friend said
recently it's like tying your keys to the end of your leader. Even in
a swift river 4 or 5 BBs will usually git er done (G).

bh

There have been many mentions of mending to make the fly sink. I'm
pretty sure I get this. But if anyone had anything more specific to
say on the topic...? Tim

wrote:
There have been many mentions of mending to make the fly sink. I'm
pretty sure I get this. But if anyone had anything more specific to
say on the topic...? Tim

http://www.yellowstoneangler.c=ADom/mending.asp