Nymphing - indicator-to-nymph MAX distance

Still struggling with nymphing --

I know that you're supposed to make the distance between your indicator
and your fly about 1.5 - 3x the depth of the water, depending on water
speed, amount of weight, and who you ask. Fine, make sense.

However, I'm often nyphing in water that's at least 4-6 feet deep.
Which means a length of, oh, let's just say about 8' between the
fly+weight and the indicator. It seems to me that that is simply too
much distance - that there's guaranteed to be some slack between the
fly and indicator (what with mid-depth currents and so on, and just the
amount of time it takes the fly to get down deep) which pretty much
guarantees I'll miss any take by simply looking at my indicator.

What am I not understanding here? I feel like I'm comfortable nymphing
with a distance of about 4' between the indicator and fly, and really
no more. But of course that doesn't get me down very deep at all.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

Tim

wrote in news:1117553439.457357.299330
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Still struggling with nymphing --

I know that you're supposed to make the distance between your indicator
and your fly about 1.5 - 3x the depth of the water, depending on water
speed, amount of weight, and who you ask. Fine, make sense.

However, I'm often nyphing in water that's at least 4-6 feet deep.
Which means a length of, oh, let's just say about 8' between the
fly+weight and the indicator. It seems to me that that is simply too
much distance - that there's guaranteed to be some slack between the
fly and indicator (what with mid-depth currents and so on, and just the
amount of time it takes the fly to get down deep) which pretty much
guarantees I'll miss any take by simply looking at my indicator.

What am I not understanding here? I feel like I'm comfortable nymphing
with a distance of about 4' between the indicator and fly, and really
no more. But of course that doesn't get me down very deep at all.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

Tim


four feet is real short in many situations. If your nymph isn't ticking
bottom now and again, you need to lengthen that distance and/or increase
the weight.

Scott

Sure, seems short to me too. But what about the slack question? Am I
just being paranoid thinking that I won't be able to tell if a fish
takes with 8'+? Or do I need to add enough weight that the line is
taut between the indicator and fly for much of the drift? Or...?

If your not getting down to where the fish are, what difference does it
make if you can detect the take sooner?.....you're not going to get any
takes. If you've ever done any sight fishing with nymphs, it will
become apparent to you that the fish will pretty much have to hook
himself when taking a nymph, as the take and rejection are so fast,
that by the time you see the indicator move it's all over. Get the
nymph on the bottom, control your drift, and let nature take its course.

wrote in news:1117554144.070862.287880
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Sure, seems short to me too. But what about the slack question? Am I
just being paranoid thinking that I won't be able to tell if a fish
takes with 8'+? Or do I need to add enough weight that the line is
taut between the indicator and fly for much of the drift? Or...?



Just remember that if you're not getting the nymph to where the fish are,
you won't detect any strikes at all. Nymphing is all about developing
confidence in the method. There are tricks to getting the nymph down
fast, like a tuck cast, and I think you would be surprised about a strike
showing up at the indicator, even when there's slack in the line. You
don't want the line to be taut.

The key is to experiment. Take your best guess, and if things aren't
working, change something-- the weight or the position of the indicator.
Make sure you're ticking bottom every now and again. Nymphing can be
hard work if you're doing it right. If you want easy, then swing a wet
or three (very pleasant way to fish!!).

I think the best way to learn nymphing and get some confidence is to use
those maddening sporadic risers as test cases. Think of these fish as
fish that are actively feeding subsurface, and every once in a blue moon
they're nice enough to take something off the top, just to tell you where
they are. Resist the temptation to take them with a dry. Just keep dead
drifting along their lie until you take them, and if you're not taking
them after what you think are six or eight good drifts, change
something--indicator, weight, tippet, fly, often in that order. I've
worked fish for a half hour just like this.

If you want to maximize chances of having a nymph in the right place, tie
a nymph on a dropper about 18" below your first nymph, with no weight in
between. Often, I use a weighted nymph version as the first nymph, and
an unweighted as a second.

Last, but not least, remember that the current is having it's way with
your fly and leader. If all else fails, go down a size in tippet, and
keep your tippet long. The smaller tippet presents a smaller profile to
the current, and you won't get pushed around as much. I rarely nymph
with anything bigger than 5X, and if I have trouble, I go right to 7X.

Scott

Scott Just remember that if you're not getting the nymph to where the
Scott fish are, you won't detect any strikes at all. Nymphing is all
Scott about developing confidence in the method. ...

[excellent advice snipped]

It never seizes to amaze me, that underneath all the BS in this
newsgroup, there is some much knowledge and eagerness to help.

No contribution here, carry on.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

wrote:
Still struggling with nymphing --

[snip]
of course that doesn't get me down very deep at all.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

You don't say if you're casting 20' and trying to get the bottom drift
or if you're standing next to the pool using a high stick nymphing
technique. But based on your description, I think you need to practice
the art of mending.


The first link I googled up was
http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/mending.asp

On 31 May 2005 08:30:39 -0700,
wrote:

Still struggling with nymphing --

I know that you're supposed to make the distance between your indicator
and your fly about 1.5 - 3x the depth of the water, depending on water
speed, amount of weight, and who you ask. Fine, make sense.

However, I'm often nyphing in water that's at least 4-6 feet deep.
Which means a length of, oh, let's just say about 8' between the
fly+weight and the indicator. It seems to me that that is simply too
much distance - that there's guaranteed to be some slack between the
fly and indicator (what with mid-depth currents and so on, and just the
amount of time it takes the fly to get down deep) which pretty much
guarantees I'll miss any take by simply looking at my indicator.

What am I not understanding here? I feel like I'm comfortable nymphing
with a distance of about 4' between the indicator and fly, and really
no more. But of course that doesn't get me down very deep at all.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

Tim

I typically nymph with a nine foot leader. Add some tippet and it's
more than ten feet. This allows me to nymph in shallow (two feet)
water all the way up to about eight feet or so. I change the position
of the indicator (if I am using one), and use lots of split shot to
ensure the lure gets to the bottom and bounces off the rocks. If I
want to go deeper than, say six feet, I will remove the indicator and
watch my line for any hesitation/movement.

Remember, if your indicator (line/leader connection) is going faster
or the same speed as the top current (watch to bubbles), then you do
not have enough weight on. Your indicator should be going slower than
the top level of water. Can't get down to the bottom? Add more
weight, move your indicator up, or remove it all together.

Dave

Dave LaCourse wrote in
:

Remember, if your indicator (line/leader connection) is going faster
or the same speed as the top current (watch to bubbles), then you do
not have enough weight on. Your indicator should be going slower than
the top level of water. Can't get down to the bottom? Add more
weight, move your indicator up, or remove it all together.

Dave





I don't get this. I know you're up there with the best nymph fishermen I
know, but I don't see how a nymph without a motor on it can go faster than
the current, unless there's a faster current down below (or maybe a fish
took and for some reason is running downstream), and flow mechanics say the
closer you get to an bank or bottom, the slower the current runs.

When I see my indicator going faster than the current, it's usually because
there's a belly in my line and it's dragging the line tip. An upstream
mend usually fixes this. In some cases, maybe strange eddies make drag
free drifts very difficult no matter how well you mend, and maybe in these
cases more weight helps.

I try to keep as little weight on my leader as possible. While during
winter steelheading I might chuck and duck 3 BB's, this time of year, for
trout on modest water, I'm rarely heavier than two size 10's-- more often
one size 8. If I can see a big "plonk" on the water when casting a size 14
sulphur nymph, I've got too much weight on, so long as I can tick bottom
every now and then with less weight. Maybe making sure you hit bottom is
more important than the dead drift, but I try to do both. In one sense, if
a belly is dragging your line tip, sure as shooting its pulling your nymph
off the bottom.

I try for the dead drift, with the indicator going pretty near the top
current--keeping in mind that the bottom current could be a little slower.

Probably the most important thing for the beginning nympher to remember is
if your indicator or line seems to do something odd, no matter how subtle,
set the hook immediately. This can get you hung up, because you're trying
to hit bottom, but don't assume its bottom, and you'll wait for the next
fish. Often, that was the next fish. If you want to try to avoid getting
hung up, put your shot on a very short dropper off the tippet.

Scott

On 31 May 2005 20:24:30 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

I don't get this. I know you're up there with the best nymph fishermen I
know, but I don't see how a nymph without a motor on it can go faster than
the current, unless there's a faster current down below (or maybe a fish
took and for some reason is running downstream), and flow mechanics say the
closer you get to an bank or bottom, the slower the current runs.

If your strike indicator is going the same speed as the bubbles around
it (top current), so is your nymph. The water that the nymph is in
will be running much slower, but if the nymph is going faster than the
bottom current, a fish probably won't hit it. And, it doesn't need a
motor, inboard or outboard, to be going faster than the bottom
current. If my strike indicator (line) is going as fast as the water
around it, I add more split shot until it slows to a speed I think is
correct. And, you are right, if you get a belly in your line, the
strike indicator/fly will move much faster than the current.

Distance nymphing, like you would do with steelhead and salmon, or on
the Rapid River, is very dependent on mending. You don't mend
properly, you are going to get few hits, and every time you do mend,
the fly should go a little deeper. Most of the steelhead I've hooked
have been hooked right after I've mended the line. If you don't know
how to mend, don't go to Alaska for salmon or big rainbows, because
the whole game is mending *once you have the lure at the proper depth
by means of weight.*


Dave