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In article ,
says...
wrote:
says...
You can argue the etymology until you're blue in the face.
It doesn't matter. Whether you like it or not the word is an
offensive racial slur and that, quite simply, is that. And
yes I do belittle those who use offensive racial slurs, it's
the least I can do.

Saying it is because you say it is is far from compelling.
My squaw says hi.

Oh, it's not just me. Look it up anywhere you choose. You can
argue that it *shouldn't* be a racial slur, you can argue that
it became a racial slur in error, but you cannot argue that it
isn't a racial slur. And like I said, you and your wife are both
fools if you don't know that.

You've claimed that it means something which it doesn't. I've shown
you that it doesn't mean what you claim it does. If you wish to change
a word's means then you can try. I find it sad that wannabe crusaders
take up something because they heard it on Oprah even when it's against
the wishes of the groups they are supposedly trying to protect.

You'll need to show me something more than a couple liberals
with an agenda and Oprah to convince me. I'm willing to have my
mind changed, but I'm not going to just take your word for it.
- Ken

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In article , says...

I refer back to the article I posted earlier:

http://www.bend.com/news/ar_view.php?ar_id=24206

Now, as far as I can tell from talking to people here, there are two
reasons the local native peoples wanted these names changed. One is
that most of these places already *had* names before they were renamed
"Squaw," and the other is that the replacement name really *is*
inherently offensive to folks.

Wanting to return a geographical name to it's original native name is
a respectable thing to do. If they were renaming locations other than
those with "squaw" in the name I'd be more than sympathetic. I like
the idea of renaming Mt McKinley to Denali for instance.



So instead of simple, common English words and/or (imagine this!) the
*proper* words in Warm Springs, Paiute or Wasco, folks had to listen
over and over again to these obviously condescending, dismissive and
entirely foreign words, and not surprisingly they found the whole
business entirely offensive. The original etymology of the thing, for
them, has *nothing* whatever to do with it.

How would they feel if their native word for "wife" meant something
offensive in say Algonquin and then their word for "wife" was outlawed
as racist? What if we renamed all the "Squaw" Buttes to "Warm
Springs Wife" Buttes and then someone else was offended? What if we
used the Siletz tribe's word and that offended the Warm Springs tribe?
It's political correctness gone too far.


So, should I, when talking to someone from Warm Springs (which borders
on many spots I fish), dismiss their revulsion as modern PC
hand-wringing, or should I give them a lecture on the Algonquin roots of
the word, or should I simply avoid giving gratuitous offense?

It's never good to give gratuitous offense. FWIW, many of the native
american's that I've spoken to about this feel that their language is
being outlawed by a bunch of clueless do-gooders.
- Ken

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In article ,
says...
In general a term used to describe the women of a particular
race is considered racist and offensive, cf. Jewess, Negress
for example.

Is it okay if it's the men of a particular race?

Hope my Dziadzia and Babcia weren't offended all those
years that I called them that.

At least your argument is getting better. Basing your disgust
on a falsehood propagated by Oprah doesn't help your cause.

Not all native american's are offended, many are trying to "take
back their language". It's sad that some ignorant falsehood has
effectively outlawed a legitimate native american word. I hope
you guys are proud. Maybe you can save those ignorant indians
who don't know as much as the moral majority does.
- Ken

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I think the most hilarious PC committed was when the do-gooders wanted
to change the Fish Kill to something else, not knowing that Kill in
Dutch meant river.

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Ken Fortenberry wrote:

In general a term used to describe the women of a particular
race is considered racist and offensive, cf. Jewess, Negress
for example.

A man is walking down the street in Scottsdale, Arizona, when a
beautiful woman appears out of nowhere, right in front of him. She is
completely nude and has green skin. Stunned, the man starts to speak to
her. "Excuse me, but you just popped out of thin air. How did you do that?"

"Oh," says the woman, "I'm from Andromeda, in what you call 'outer space'."

"Andromeda?" says the man, "Wow! Do all the women on Andromeda have
green skin like you?"

"Yes," replies the woman, "everyone is green on Andromeda."

The man continues to stare and speak. "Excuse me for asking, but I can't
help noticing that you have 12 toes on each foot. Here on Earth we all
have five toes on each foot. Do all Andromedans have 12 toes on each foot?"

"Yes, they do," replies the woman.

"Please, may I ask you one more question?" The woman nods.

"I also can't help noticing that on each of your hands you have seven
fingers, and on each finger is a very large diamond. Here on Earth,
diamonds are very rare and valuable. Do all Andromedan women have large
diamonds on their fingers?"

"Well," the woman answers, "not the shiksas."

(from http://www.harryc.com/j-jokes904.htm)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I suspect that native Algonquian speakers speaking Algonquian
could use the word without offending anyone. It's the English
speakers speaking English who offend.


An Algonquian Indian chief had three wives, each of whom was pregnant.
The first squaw gave birth to a boy, and the chief was so elated he
built her a tepee made of buffalo hide.

A few days later, the second squaw gave birth, and also had a boy. The
chief was extremely happy; he built her a tepee made of antelope hide.

The third squaw gave birth a few days later, but the chief kept the
birth details a secret. He built the woman a tepee out of hippopotamus
hide, and challenged the people in the tribe to guess the most recent
birth details, the correct guesser receiving a fine prize. Several of
his people tried, but were unsuccessful in their guesses. Finally, a
young brave came forth and declared that the third wife had delivered
twin boys.

"Correct"! cried the chief. "How did you know"?

"It's simple", replied the warrior. "The value of the squaw of the
hippopotamus is equal to the sons of the squaws of the other two hides."

(from http://www.brookfieldschool.co.uk/Indian_Chief.htm)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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rw wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I suspect that native Algonquian speakers speaking Algonquian
could use the word without offending anyone. It's the English
speakers speaking English who offend.

An Algonquian Indian chief had three wives, ...

A page from the Dickie Dean book of "I can post racist,
offensive **** to roff and there's not a damn thing you
PC net nannies can do about it."

Congrats, you're a ****in' putz, but then that's hardly
news around here.

--
Ken Fortenberry

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Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Congrats, you're a ****in' putz, but then that's hardly
news around here.

Blonde jokes aren't normally my thing, but this one is absolutely hilarious:

http://j-walkblog.com/index.php?/web...ts/blond_joke/

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rw wrote:

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I suspect that native Algonquian speakers speaking Algonquian
could use the word without offending anyone. It's the English
speakers speaking English who offend.


An Algonquian Indian chief had three wives, ...


A page from the Dickie Dean book of "I can post racist,
offensive **** to roff and there's not a damn thing you
PC net nannies can do about it."

Number one change we can expect in US government policy if Joe Lieberman
is elected President:

White House interns -- all shiksas.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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A Jew calls his mother in Florida. "Mom, how are you?"

"Not too good,"says the mother. "I've been very weak."

The son says, "Why are you so weak?"

She says, "Because I haven't eaten in 38 days."

The man says, "That's terrible. Why haven't you eaten in 38 days?

The mother answers, "Because I didn't want my mouth filled with food if
you called."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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JR and ken janik wrote:



It's common courtesy and respect.

It's never good to give gratuitous offense.

for me, these are really the more compelling arguments on this (and
other) issue(s).

jeff

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On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:37:29 -0500, Jeff Miller
wrote:

JR and ken janik wrote:



It's common courtesy and respect.

It's never good to give gratuitous offense.

for me, these are really the more compelling arguments on this (and
other) issue(s).

jeff



What does Robert Byrd's lawn sprinkler sound like?

Spic, spic, spic, spic, spic, spic, CHINK, nigga-nigga-nigga-nigga, WOP, spic,
spic...

OTOH, I think everything and everyone ought to be called Siobhan. Think about
how easy it'd make things..."OK, Siobhan, to get to Siobhan's, you go past
Siobhan's and Siobhan's, and turn at Siobhan's. Go 2 blocks on Siobhan Street
and take a left onto Siobhan. Go 3 blocks, and take a right onto Siobhan. Go
past Siobhan's and Siobhan's, and there you a Siobhan's. Don't forget to set
the parking brake, though...she lives on Siobhan Hill..." And it'll end all
strife - "Did you just call me a 'Siobhan' you sorry Siobhan!?" "Hell, no, I
called you 'Siobhan', Siobhan..." "Oh, sorry, Siobhan...nevermind, then..." And
the big plus is that if people would start saying "yada da da da da" at random
times, life would occasionally sound sorta like a "Crew Cuts" song...

HTH,
R

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On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:46:45 -0500, Jeff Miller
wrote:

wrote:






HTH,
R

nr, bymmv, aiod...so, wtfc

htdh.

j

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While I have no dog--not a reference to any human, real or imagined-- in
this fight, I can't imagine referrin' to a Native American's/Indian's (?)
*partner* as his/her "squaw," as the word isn't really part of my everyday
usage. However, the fact that an idividual refers to his
spouse/partner/wife as a "squaw" affects me in no way. If his
spouse/partner/wife/"squaw" doesn't take issue with being called a "squaw,"
why should I be offended, as long as he doesn't call my
spouse/partner/wife/"squaw," father's wife/spouse/partner/"squaw,"
brother-in-law's wife/spouse/partner/"squaw" a "squaw?" Which, by the way,
I'm not certain that *I* would be offended, in any case?

Op

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"Jeff Miller" wrote in message
news:8ozVf.3173$fS6.2952@dukeread11...
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:46:45 -0500, Jeff Miller

wrote:


wrote:






HTH,
R

nr, bymmv, aiod...so, wtfc

htdh.

j



wtf...you rendered writless? g

SVM! :)

W

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In article , says...
wrote:

I like
the idea of renaming Mt McKinley to Denali for instance.

So the name changes *you* personally are sympathetic to are OK. Anyway,
there's no need for renaming. It *is* named Denali. Just needs to be
recognized as such.

Creative snippage when replying is par for the course in usenet, but
frankly I expected better from you. You know that's not what I said or
meant.

There are plenty of people who argue against this sort of runaway
moralising (much better than I do).

http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/squaw.html
http://www.tomjonas.com/squawpeak/ch...perception.htm
- Ken

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On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0500, Jeff Miller
wrote:

wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:46:45 -0500, Jeff Miller
wrote:


wrote:






HTH,
R

nr, bymmv, aiod...so, wtfc

htdh.

j



wtf...you rendered writless? g

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Dave LaCourse wrote:
I think the most hilarious PC committed was when the do-gooders wanted
to change the Fish Kill to something else, not knowing that Kill in
Dutch meant river.

It's Fishkill, and PETA knew exactly where the name
came from. PETA's overriding priority is free publicity.
They can almost always count on getting it, and
guys with cheap-shot political agendas like yours can
always be counted on to contribute to the cause.

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On 26 Mar 2006 11:02:10 -0800, "
wrote:

and
guys with cheap-shot political agendas like yours can
always be counted on to contribute to the cause.

Oh, I see...... and you have never taken a cheap shot on roff.

You should be very, very careful how and where you throw your stones.

Country music
 

Herman Nijland wrote:
wrote:

Dave LaCourse wrote:

I think the most hilarious PC committed was when the do-gooders wanted
to change the Fish Kill to something else, not knowing that Kill in
Dutch meant river.


It's Fishkill, and PETA knew exactly where the name
came from. PETA's overriding priority is free publicity.
They can almost always count on getting it, and
guys with cheap-shot political agendas like yours can
always be counted on to contribute to the cause.


Also wrong. There's no such word in the Dutch language, what I can
imagine is that someone read something about the river Kyll in Germany
and made a silly typo. Or thought 'wtf, nobody knows where those silly
little european countries start or end, let's use this for some
political gain', but that's probably too sarcastic :-).

That's odd.

Origin of Name: A combination of two Dutch words, "vis", meaning fish,
and "kill", meaning stream.

from: http://www.bearsystems.com/fishkill/fishkill.html

In response to PETA, I suggest we change the name to Fishrelease. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

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"Herman Nijland" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
I think the most hilarious PC committed was when the do-gooders wanted
to change the Fish Kill to something else, not knowing that Kill in
Dutch meant river.

It's Fishkill, and PETA knew exactly where the name
came from. PETA's overriding priority is free publicity.
They can almost always count on getting it, and
guys with cheap-shot political agendas like yours can
always be counted on to contribute to the cause.


Also wrong. There's no such word in the Dutch language, what I can imagine
is that someone read something about the river Kyll in Germany and made a
silly typo. Or thought 'wtf, nobody knows where those silly little
european countries start or end, let's use this for some political gain',
but that's probably too sarcastic :-).

Well now, this IS getting interesting. Dave's definition matches the
conventional wisdom here quite nicely. A quick check of two dictionaries
("Webster's New Universal Unabridged", Barnes and Noble, 2003, and "The
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language", Houghton Mifflin,
1978) reveals that both agree. Both say that "kill" in this usage is
derived from the Dutch "kil" which in turn comes from the Middle Dutch
"kille".

Perhaps an archaic word, no longer used in Dutch? A problem in
transliteration, maybe? Are there no names of streams that bear a
resemblance?

Wolfgang

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Wolfgang wrote:
"Herman Nijland" wrote in message
Also wrong. There's no such word in the Dutch language, what I can imagine
is that someone read something about the river Kyll in Germany and made a
silly typo. Or thought 'wtf, nobody knows where those silly little
european countries start or end, let's use this for some political gain',
but that's probably too sarcastic :-).

Well now, this IS getting interesting. Dave's definition matches the
conventional wisdom here quite nicely. A quick check of two dictionaries
("Webster's New Universal Unabridged", Barnes and Noble, 2003, and "The
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language", Houghton Mifflin,
1978) reveals that both agree. Both say that "kill" in this usage is
derived from the Dutch "kil" which in turn comes from the Middle Dutch
"kille".

Perhaps an archaic word, no longer used in Dutch? A problem in
transliteration, maybe? Are there no names of streams that bear a
resemblance?

Wolfgang

To answer both your and rw's question in one post - yes, it is archaic,
I've never heard of it being used in modern language. Being Dutch, I
hope that means something :-). May be it means the Dave is very very
much older than me g.
I had a quick google, and it does turn out that Dave was more or less
right - it is a very old word for stream. However - I can't imagine a
modern Dutch publication using the word 'kill' or 'kil' for stream,
because it wouldn't be understood in its right meaning. For modern read
anything younger than, say, at least fifty years.

Herman

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"Herman Nijland" wrote in message
. ..

To answer both your and rw's question in one post - yes, it is archaic,
I've never heard of it being used in modern language. Being Dutch, I hope
that means something :-). May be it means the Dave is very very much older
than me g.
I had a quick google, and it does turn out that Dave was more or less
right - it is a very old word for stream. However - I can't imagine a
modern Dutch publication using the word 'kill' or 'kil' for stream,
because it wouldn't be understood in its right meaning. For modern read
anything younger than, say, at least fifty years.

No surprises there. Thanks, Herman. One more question though, or rather a
repetition to be more precise (and with a short preface), if you don't mind.
It's well known among people who study languages that names in general, and
place names in particular, are a valuable repository of archaic forms. Even
if "kil" (however spelled) is no longer in common use as a synonym for
"stream" (as is clearly the case here), one expect to see signs of its
former use dotted about the landscape (as it is here in areas settled by the
Dutch). Anything come to mind?

Wolfgang

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On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:53:40 +0200, Herman Nijland
wrote:

To answer both your and rw's question in one post - yes, it is archaic,
I've never heard of it being used in modern language. Being Dutch, I
hope that means something :-). May be it means the Dave is very very
much older than me g.

My bones tell me I am much older than you, Herman.

I had a quick google, and it does turn out that Dave was more or less
right - it is a very old word for stream. However - I can't imagine a
modern Dutch publication using the word 'kill' or 'kil' for stream,
because it wouldn't be understood in its right meaning. For modern read
anything younger than, say, at least fifty years.

It was probably named way back when New York was called New
Amsterdam.That would be old work, Ishudthink. There are several
"kill" rivers besides Fish. Battenkill comes to mind, and I'm sure
there are others.

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Dave LaCourse wrote in
:


It was probably named way back when New York was called New
Amsterdam.That would be old work, Ishudthink. There are several
"kill" rivers besides Fish. Battenkill comes to mind, and I'm sure
there are others.


John Merwin says something about the etymology of the word "kill" in
his book "The Battenkill" (quite a bit more than you'd think you
subject would merit, IIRC). He also spends a little time on the history
of the proper noun "Battenkill" and its pedantic twin "Batten Kill". I
must dig it out and reread (it's getting to be that time of year of
again anyway). I'll post back if it adds to the thread.

Country music
 

Wolfgang schreef:
"Herman Nijland" wrote in message
. ..

To answer both your and rw's question in one post - yes, it is archaic,
I've never heard of it being used in modern language. Being Dutch, I hope
that means something :-). May be it means the Dave is very very much older
than me g.
I had a quick google, and it does turn out that Dave was more or less
right - it is a very old word for stream. However - I can't imagine a
modern Dutch publication using the word 'kill' or 'kil' for stream,
because it wouldn't be understood in its right meaning. For modern read
anything younger than, say, at least fifty years.

No surprises there. Thanks, Herman. One more question though, or rather a
repetition to be more precise (and with a short preface), if you don't mind.
It's well known among people who study languages that names in general, and
place names in particular, are a valuable repository of archaic forms. Even
if "kil" (however spelled) is no longer in common use as a synonym for
"stream" (as is clearly the case here), one expect to see signs of its
former use dotted about the landscape (as it is here in areas settled by the
Dutch). Anything come to mind?

Wolfgang

Not so much as you would expect from a water-rich environment
I know of a place called 'Sluiskil', which is water-related, but that's about
the only one that pops up. Dave gave a better example with the Battenkill (which
is even on-topic :-)).

Herman

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"herman Nijland" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang schreef:

Even if "kil" (however spelled) is no longer in common use as a synonym
for "stream" (as is clearly the case here), one expect to see signs of
its former use dotted about the landscape (as it is here in areas settled
by the Dutch). Anything come to mind?

Wolfgang

Not so much as you would expect from a water-rich environment
I know of a place called 'Sluiskil', which is water-related, but that's
about the only one that pops up.


Thanks again, Herman. I just did a brief search online and found one other
example, the "Dordtsche Kil." According to Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dordtsche_Kil it is, "A short river in South
Holland in the Netherlands. The river is tidal and forms a connection
between the Oude Maas river and the Hollands Diep." The Dutch version of
the page, http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dordtsche_Kil appears to have more
information on it. Unfortunately, I don't read Dutch. The last two
sentences, "Ook het aan de Dordtsche Kil gelegen bedrijventerrein wordt
Dordtsche Kil ("de Kil") genoemd. Dit is onderverdeeld in Kil I en Kil II."
look particularly intriguing. Looking at a couple of Dutch online
dictionaries revealed only that "kil" means chilly. Easy enough to imagine
an etymological connection to cold water streams, but not really much help.
I have not yet found a Middle Dutch-English dictionary. :(

What makes all of this interesting to me is not so much the PETA connection
as the fact (assuming the "kill" in "Fishkill" means stream, creek, or
something on that order) that it has exact cognates long familiar to me in
both English, "Fish Creek," and German, "Fischbach." There is a town here
in Wisconsin and there is at least one stream in Michigan with the former
name, and the latter was the name of my aunt's first husband (he was killed
in the war at least 6 years before I was born, so I'm not sure I can really
call him my uncle). Presumably, the family name reflects a genealogical
connection to a place name. The careful reader also will note a connection
with a certain famous musical composer. Sure enough, J.S. Bach was aware of
the geographical significance of his name. I recall hearing an anecdote,
many years ago, in which he quipped, in reference to a student of his, named
Fisch, that he was "...den [dem?, der?] besten Fisch in meinem Bach."

I assume there are similar constructs in many other languages. Anybody out
there know of any?

Dave gave a better example with the Battenkill (which is even on-topic
:-)).

"Batten" looks to me like it might be the equivalent of the German "baden"
and English "bathing." I'd guess there were some popular swimming holes
there a couple hundred years ago.

Even more interesting is the Beaverkill. Presumably, this is where early
Dutch-American truckers went to ogle naked female bathers. :)

Wolfgang

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Wolfgang wrote:

Even more interesting is the Beaverkill. Presumably, this is where early
Dutch-American truckers went to ogle naked female bathers. :)

Wolfgang



....and schuylkill in PA??

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On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:24:02 +0200, herman Nijland
wrote:

I know of a place called 'Sluiskil', which is water-related, but that's about
the only one that pops up. Dave gave a better example with the Battenkill (which
is even on-topic :-)).

And then there's
Beaver Kill
Bush Kill (ewwwww)
Catskill
Lansing Kill
Plattekill
Saw Kill
Shawangunk Kill (say that three times really fast)

Methinks the early Dutch were very busy naming streams back in the
18th and 19th centuries. d;o)

Dave

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"Jeff" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Wolfgang wrote:

Even more interesting is the Beaverkill. Presumably, this is where early
Dutch-American truckers went to ogle naked female bathers. :)

...and schuylkill in PA??

Hm......

Yeah, that one's a bit of a poser. The folks at:

http://www.delawareriverkeeper.org/piedmont.html

say, "As the first westerners came to the area they sailed right past the
mouth of the Schuylkill which drains into the estuary region of the main
stem Delaware. Arendt Corssen, who explored the Schuylkill for the Dutch
East Indies Company, named the river 'Schuyl Kil' meaning hidden river, for
the reeds, sedges and grasses that hid the mouth of the Schuylkill.".....but
that's dull.

Unfortunately, the American Society for Kephalonomantic Macrologic Etymology
has suspended my license pending investigation of the "Beaverkill" incident.
Someone else is going to have to take it from here. :(

Wolfgang

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"GaryM" wrote in message
2.112...
"Wolfgang" wrote in
:

"Batten" looks to me like it might be the equivalent of the German
"baden" and English "bathing." I'd guess there were some popular
swimming holes there a couple hundred years ago.

I started to re-read Merwin's book that I mentioned in a post last
night. Damn good book, by the way, even if you never plan on visiting
the place.

According to Merwin "Kill" is Dutch, as has been confirmed by others
here.

The word "Battenkill" was suggested by Esther Swift in her 1977 book
"Vermont Place Names" to be a contraction of Bart's Kill. Hmmm?

Leaving aside the rather peculiar notion that anyone would bother
contracting five letters to six, one is still left wondering by what
mechanism such a radical change would have been accomplished. The ways in
which the meanings, pronunciations and spellings of place names change over
time have long been carefully studied. Certain patterns, or descriptive
rules if you will, have emerged as a result. It's been a long time since I
studied this stuff but this one appears to violate at least a couple of
those rules. First, and probably most important, evolution tends to
shorten, not lengthen, names. Thus, the tetrasyllabic Wor-ces-ter-shire
becomes the trisyllabic Woos-tuh-shur. Vowels (as I hope my quick and dirty
attempt at something like phonetic spelling demonstrates) tend to become
more slurred. The bottom line is that such changes are not random. It may
take a while to ferret out how and why changes occur.....and often enough
the chain can never be fully reconstructed.....but there is always a sort of
logic to them. Getting "Battenkill" out of "Bart's Kill" looks like a
pretty tough trick. Methinks Ms. Swift was reaching a bit. :)

"Batten" in archaic English means to fertilize or enrich.

And in modern English its use has to do with holding or fastening. Looks
like there isn't much help in either of those.

Most likely though the stream gets its name from the word Batavia,
which is the ancient name for the people of the Western European
lowlands that eventually became Holland. The Dutch settled this
region and there is (or was, since the book was written in 1992) a
project to translate their archaic writings from that time called the
"New Netherlands Project" in Albany. It was even suggested that the
origin of the word Batavia and Batten are the same. There is a
Batavia Kill and a Batavia, New York. In that case Battenkill means
"river of the Dutch".

Shortening "Batavian Kill" to "Battenkill" seems very
plausible.....especially if there is already an etymological connection
between Batavia and batten. It would help a lot to know exactly what that
alleged connection is.

It's Indian names we

Ondawa (Iroquoian) "White Stream" or "Country of Rounded Hills"

I've seen and heard many such either/or translations and they have always
perplexed me. I mean, I can see why there might be some uncertainty about
whether a name in a little known language might mean "the valley where the
tall pointy spruces grow" or "the valley where where the tall pointy
tamaracks grow" (I'm pretty certain that everyone I know is aware that there
are many kinds of conifers and are familiar with the words pine, spruce,
hemlock, fir, etc., but most of them are not very good at distinguishing
between them and tend to refer to all of them generically as "pines"), but
if anyone can translate well enough to make any sense of a name at all, a
"white stream" shouldn't be that difficult to distinguish from a "rounded
hill."

Tyetilegogtakook (Mahican, not Welsh)"Country around the River of
Toads" (thousands of toads migrate to the swamps and backwaters every
year).

Actually, I think that one IS Welsh......well, if you read it backwards,
anyway. :)

Probably more that you wanted,

Nah, I love this ****.

but thanks to this thread I'll be glad
to reread this book agai (that, and the Hendricksons but 5 weeks
away)!

Good luck with both, and thanks.

Wolfgang

Country music
 

Ken Janik wrote:

"The English word "squaw" was borrowed from the Algonquian language
family of a few Indian tribes in Canada and New England and first
appeared in the American vocabulary around 1634.1 It has been used in
literature and historical documents for much of this country’s history.
The Massachusett/Algonquian word means "young woman."

snip

You've fallen victim to actually believing the crap that the
loony left spouts...


For a link that has pretty good description of the word and its history:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000317.html

For the benefit of those who do not follow the link, Squaw is not an obscene
word after all, but it is offensive most of the time, similar to words like
Negress or Jewess; it is better to avoid its use whenever possible.

Here's an idea: Why not just say "woman" or "wife" it that is what you mean
to say?


--
Rusty Hook
Laramie, Wyoming

Country music
 

Rusty Hook wrote:

Here's an idea: Why not just say "woman" or "wife" it that is what you mean
to say?

For one thing, you wouldn't be able to construct one of the worst puns
in history.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.