A Plea for Sanity
 

"Willi" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
"I'm proud to be an asshole and anyone who doesn't like
it can **** off."

Willi

If you believe that, then why bother even saying it? Replying in kind is
not the way to "sanity".

TL
MC

A Plea for Sanity
 

All this stuff is merely providing fuel for further quite useless
argumentation and insult. It is no good blaming Ken, it takes two to tango.

Use some common sense.

I am fed up with it anyway, so once again EOT for me.

TL
MC

A Plea for Sanity
 

Mike Connor wrote:

If you believe that, then why bother even saying it? Replying in kind is
not the way to "sanity".

But invective and personal attacks don't tear at the fabric of roff
and discourage new blood when Tommy and Willi and wayno do it. It's
only a "bad thing" when someone else does it. No hypocrisy here, no
siree Bob. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Plea for Sanity
 

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...

Big bad Usenet talk, you sound like the putz.

And he will, doubtless, be dealt with in the same manner.

Wolfgang
REMEMBER YELLOWSTONE! :)

A Plea for Sanity
 

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004, Willi wrote:

The attrition of regular posters without being replaced new people, will
lead to deterioration.

Just poked my head in for a moment. For the record, I've been way too
busy to keep up with ROFF - and ROFF is no fun unless I can really
stay abreast. Carry on fellas.

Mu
missin' ya

A Plea for Sanity
 

Mike writes:
You see? You can´t forget either. Once something is said on here, then no
amount of apologising, sincere or otherwise is going to make it unsaid.


Mike, you don't see my nature. I not only have forgotten the unpleasantness, I
view it the "dumbo" comment as a self-deprecating reminder of my own errors.
As I have replied to you privately, this is all behind me, and I bear
ABSOLUTELY no ill will. I cannot make that plainer, but, if you wish, will
NEVER make light of that title again.
Tom

A Plea for Sanity
 

Jon writes:
But they really are necessary to bring us back to the realization of
how easy it is to go off into the mudpit using this type of
communication.

thanks, Jon, for putting it so well. I think it is worth clarifying again a
couple of points.
First, when Willi and I were making light of the names we have been called, it
was merely that. I kind of figure neither of us takes real offense to the times
when we have been called names. Second, if I can use the example of this
thread, Ken and I had a disagreement, to be sure. I CAN say that at no time did
I see anything Ken said to me that crossed the line I complained about. He
didn't refer to my family, bodily functions, health issues or anything more
personal than his perception of me. I would disagree strongly with his points
and style of making them, but so be it. My issue was, and is, taking arguments
to a lower depth, which HAS occured of late.
Tom

A Plea for Sanity
 

Wolfgang wrote:
...
REMEMBER YELLOWSTONE! :)

That's the second time you've used that sign off. What in the
hell is it supposed to mean ?

You remember, trip reports are not optional.

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
Wolfgang wrote:
...
REMEMBER YELLOWSTONE! :)

That's the second time you've used that sign off. What in the
hell is it supposed to mean ?


It's a battle cry. Battle cries are little catch phrases, simple enough for
even mighty warriors to remember, whose purpose is to rally mighty warriors
upon entry into a mighty clash of arms. Typically, they hark back to a
prior mighty clash of arms in which the mighty warriors concerned (or their
mighty predecessors) failed to accomplish their stated aim and for which
they are thus compelled to compensate or make amends.

Wolfgang

A Plea for Sanity
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
REMEMBER YELLOWSTONE! :)

That's the second time you've used that sign off. What in the
hell is it supposed to mean ?

It's a battle cry. Battle cries are little catch phrases, simple enough for
even mighty warriors to remember, whose purpose is to rally mighty warriors
upon entry into a mighty clash of arms. ...

I hope you make it back to Yellowstone one of these days to mightily
clash your arms or whatever the hell it is you have to do that you
need a battle cry to remember.

So, how was the Wisconsin Opener ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
REMEMBER YELLOWSTONE! :)

That's the second time you've used that sign off. What in the
hell is it supposed to mean ?

It's a battle cry. Battle cries are little catch phrases, simple enough
for
even mighty warriors to remember, whose purpose is to rally mighty
warriors
upon entry into a mighty clash of arms. ...

I hope you make it back to Yellowstone one of these days to mightily
clash your arms or whatever the hell it is you have to do that you
need a battle cry to remember.

Well.....there......THAT'll fool 'em!

So, how was the Wisconsin Opener ?

Good. TR in progress.

Wolfgang

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 00:23:06 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Big bad Usenet talk,

Yet another irony meter shot to ****.

I think the Irony Meter pegged offscale in about 3 posts, considering the
title of this thread.
--riverman

A Plea for Sanity
 

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Choc" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 00:23:06 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

Big bad Usenet talk,

Yet another irony meter shot to ****.

I think the Irony Meter pegged offscale in about 3 posts, considering the
title of this thread.


Think so? This was inevitable......and predictable. Tom knew it. He said
so. :)

Wolfgang

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Wolfgang" wrote in news:c2fjl7$1sod5v$1@ID-
205717.news.uni-berlin.de:

It's a battle cry.

Is that like a shibboleth?

Scott

A Plea for Sanity
 

Tom Littleton wrote:
I am not telling anyone what to do,
just hoping that some can find it in their souls to do the right thing, and act
like adults.

This has always been an "interesting place", kinda like a Toys R Us on
Xmas Eve around 11pm =)

I've learned to ignore most of the threads that are OBVIOUSLY OT by
simply reading the Subject line, because for the most part, they aren't
worth my time. Periodically, I will stop and read the first and one or
two contributed responses from those whose rantings I find especially
"entertaining", but I never bother getting up set over any of it anymore.

On a personal level, I could care less what most of these folks think
about things other than fly fishing, because that's why I signed on to
this NG... if I want opinions about politics, I'll seek them out from
individuals whose opinions I appreciate on either side of the issue,
because I know their "set of values" and where they're coming from.

I don't know most of the people here from Adam, so why would I get my
feathers ruffled over their opinions? If others choose to hang around
this virtual water cooler and get bitch slapped for voicing their
opinions on an issue, that's their choice... no one has to stand by and
watch it, just read the messages and threads that mean something to you
and ignore the rest... it doesn't take than much effort to sort by
subject, read what you want and "Mark all as Read" when you're done.

Larry

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Wolfgang" wrote in news:c2fjl7$1sod5v$1@ID-
205717.news.uni-berlin.de:

It's a battle cry.

Is that like a shibboleth?

Quite the antithesis, it seems to me. :)

Wolfgang
who would be very interested in experimental results.

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Larry Medina" wrote in message
om...
Tom Littleton wrote:
I am not telling anyone what to do,
just hoping that some can find it in their souls to do the right thing,
and act
like adults.

This has always been an "interesting place", kinda like a Toys R Us on
Xmas Eve around 11pm =)

I've learned to ignore most of the threads that are OBVIOUSLY OT by
simply reading the Subject line, because for the most part, they aren't
worth my time.
(snip)

it doesn't take than much effort to sort by
subject, read what you want and "Mark all as Read" when you're done.

yeah, but, like, you're so freaking *mature*, and like, squared away, and
like, in control, and all...can you dig it?

wayno

Larry

A Plea for Sanity
 

From another newsgroup:

Some people are offence kleptomaniacs -- whenever they see an offence
that isn't nailed down, they take it ;-)
--David C. Pugh, in alt.callahans

Frank Reid

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Frank Reid" wrote

From another newsgroup:

Some people are offence kleptomaniacs -- whenever they see an offence
that isn't nailed down, they take it ;-)
--David C. Pugh, in alt.callahans

Frank Reid

Years ago, maybe about '95, I saw one in a different ng, something like

"USENET flame wars are like the Special Olympics. There aren't any real
winners, but you DO have to be retarded to participate"

I'm waiting for a good time to use it G


Larry L ( not the self-controlled, mature, Larry )

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Frank Reid" wrote

From another newsgroup:

Some people are offence kleptomaniacs -- whenever they see an
offence
that isn't nailed down, they take it ;-)
--David C. Pugh, in alt.callahans

Frank Reid

Years ago, maybe about '95, I saw one in a different ng, something
like

"USENET flame wars are like the Special Olympics. There aren't any
real
winners, but you DO have to be retarded to participate"

I'm waiting for a good time to use it G

I don't think there will be a good time to use it.

Wolfgang

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Wolfgang" wrote


I don't think there will be a good time to use it.

Wolfgang



Me either

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

Larry L wrote:
"Tom Gibson" wrote


Keep your hat out of the water,



Which brings up the only decent reason I know of to take a dog fishing .....
IF he's trained to retrieve hats that blow off into deep water.

I take my dogs fishing quite a bit -- in fact, most of the time. I even
take them to Silver Creek, but not in the crowded season. They sit on
the bank and watch, and they love it, and they don't bother anyone.
What's the problem?

My Golden would retrieve my hat if I asked him. He loves the water
because it's the only venue where he can outcompete my Border Collie.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

"rw" wrote

I take my dogs fishing quite a bit -- in fact, most of the time. I even
take them to Silver Creek, but not in the crowded season. They sit on
the bank and watch, and they love it, and they don't bother anyone.
What's the problem?



if they don't bother anyone, there is no problem .....and I'm sure yours
don't bother others ..... but, far too often, Fido is wandering around
uncontrolled and assuming that all humans want to be his friend .....
watching the wakes of fleeing fish as Bowzer trots down the bank to meet me
while his human is totally unaware of his wanderings, is not my idea of
"good dog"

um .... a flashback fishin' dawg story

I was once back in the Willows ( where you can camp, these days ) while at a
field trial ( they use Consevancy land and some local farms ). I had
several very valuable dogs with me and after giving up on the fish, I let a
couple out and went for a walk down to Point of Rocks and back. Almost
back to the truck, the dogs running out front as they will, I heard a
scared, bad tempered, "get away, go away" and instantly called my beasts.
As I came out into the next clearing there was a very disturbed ( all
possible meanings ) looking guy with pistol drawn and pointing it at first
one of "my" $20K dogs then the other, as I tried to keep the two as close to
heel as two can at the same time.

This guy was clearly fruitcakes, and started shouting that he would shoot
the dogs if they got one foot closer and citing county law that gave him the
right to do so. I'm sure you've met enough of the gun carrying,
everything fearing, moved to Idaho specifically to be unregulated looney
toons, rednecked nutballs the state attracts to know that they are not fun
company. I tried to point out that I HAD to go by him to get the dogs into
my truck and try to defuse the situation with things like, "Rufus here, is a
total lover, so is Crook .... and look at em, they both mind me well, and I
won't let them away from my side."

Then I noticed the guy was dragging one of those chain clip stringers with 4
or 5 good trout on it ( two fish limit ) and he noticed me notice :-(( and
got visibly more agitated

My, "Nice mess of fish, they'll make a good dinner" caused him to lower the
gun and step back into some willows while I nervously went by, loaded my
dogs and left ( none too soon ;-) If I'd have been a roffreader back on
those days, I might have emulated our fast thinking, all balls, heroes
around here and said, " You are a worthless ****ing putz you asshole
trailer trash maggot." and there would be two dead dogs and a dead fat guy
in the Willows section of Silver Creek ( I did tell the guy at the store
about the extra fish and suggest he mention it and the drawn pistol to the
fuzz ... doubt he did, the guy was a local, I'm sure )


Opps, got sidetracked ..... I'd like to be out walking the river but I'm
waiting for an important phone call ..... boredom leads to roffposting, I've
found

Anyway, if yer dogs aren't running around bothering others .... not a
problem .... but too many folks assume that since they love Fido, everyone
wants to meet him. Probably something I notice more because of 30+ years in
the dog training biz.

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"rw" wrote

I take my dogs fishing quite a bit -- in fact, most of the time. I even
take them to Silver Creek, but not in the crowded season. They sit on
the bank and watch, and they love it, and they don't bother anyone.
What's the problem?



if they don't bother anyone, there is no problem .....and I'm sure yours
don't bother others ..... but, far too often, Fido is wandering around
uncontrolled and assuming that all humans want to be his friend .....
watching the wakes of fleeing fish as Bowzer trots down the bank to meet
me
while his human is totally unaware of his wanderings, is not my idea of
"good dog"

um .... a flashback fishin' dawg story

I was once back in the Willows ( where you can camp, these days ) while at
a
field trial ( they use Consevancy land and some local farms ). I had
several very valuable dogs with me and after giving up on the fish, I let
a
couple out and went for a walk down to Point of Rocks and back. Almost
back to the truck, the dogs running out front as they will, I heard a
scared, bad tempered, "get away, go away" and instantly called my beasts.
As I came out into the next clearing there was a very disturbed ( all
possible meanings ) looking guy with pistol drawn and pointing it at first
one of "my" $20K dogs then the other, as I tried to keep the two as close
to
heel as two can at the same time.

This guy was clearly fruitcakes, and started shouting that he would shoot
the dogs if they got one foot closer and citing county law that gave him
the
right to do so. I'm sure you've met enough of the gun carrying,
everything fearing, moved to Idaho specifically to be unregulated looney
toons, rednecked nutballs the state attracts to know that they are not fun
company. I tried to point out that I HAD to go by him to get the dogs
into
my truck and try to defuse the situation with things like, "Rufus here, is
a
total lover, so is Crook .... and look at em, they both mind me well, and
I
won't let them away from my side."

Then I noticed the guy was dragging one of those chain clip stringers with
4
or 5 good trout on it ( two fish limit ) and he noticed me notice :-((
and
got visibly more agitated

My, "Nice mess of fish, they'll make a good dinner" caused him to lower
the
gun and step back into some willows while I nervously went by, loaded my
dogs and left ( none too soon ;-) If I'd have been a roffreader back
on
those days, I might have emulated our fast thinking, all balls, heroes
around here and said, " You are a worthless ****ing putz you asshole
trailer trash maggot." and there would be two dead dogs and a dead fat
guy
in the Willows section of Silver Creek ( I did tell the guy at the store
about the extra fish and suggest he mention it and the drawn pistol to the
fuzz ... doubt he did, the guy was a local, I'm sure )


Opps, got sidetracked ..... I'd like to be out walking the river but I'm
waiting for an important phone call ..... boredom leads to roffposting,
I've
found

Anyway, if yer dogs aren't running around bothering others .... not a
problem .... but too many folks assume that since they love Fido, everyone
wants to meet him.

You're......what?.....maybe 12......14?

Probably something I notice more because of 30+ years in
the dog training biz.

Oops! Whoa! Fooled me.

Wolfgang

A Plea for Sanity
 

Wayne Harrison wrote:

yeah, but, like, you're so freaking *mature*, and like, squared away, and
like, in control, and all...can you dig it?

Yeah well whatcanisay???

I guess the drugs are working

=)

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

Larry L wrote:

I'm sure you've met enough of the gun carrying,
everything fearing, moved to Idaho specifically to be unregulated looney
toons, rednecked nutballs the state attracts to know that they are not fun
company.

I've lived in rural Idaho for five years, now, and I've never met anyone
who comes even close to the maniac you described.

In fact, I've found that folks around here are FAR more civil to one
another than people in (for example) the SF Bay Area. My community is
full of long-simmering feuds that will go all the way to the grave, and
maybe beyond, but strangers are treated with respect.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Larry Medina" wrote in message
. com...

I guess the drugs are working

Maybe better than you thought. Um.....you DO know that you've been MIA for
a while.......right?

Wolfgang

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

"rw" wrote in message
. ..

I've lived in rural Idaho for five years, now, and I've never met anyone
who comes even close to the maniac you described.

In fact, I've found that folks around here are FAR more civil to one
another than people in (for example) the SF Bay Area. My community is
full of long-simmering feuds that will go all the way to the grave, and
maybe beyond, but strangers are treated with respect.

Really? So, you've moved since you mentioned that a moderate to large crowd
of them would bravely band together to stomp the **** out of someone who
gave voice to an unpopular point of view?

Well, that's probably for the best, I think.

Wolfgang
who, if it's not too much trouble, would appreciate gps coordinates to the
new place........thanks. :)

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

"rw" wrote


I've lived in rural Idaho for five years, now, and I've never met anyone
who comes even close to the maniac you described.



Actually, after I sent the post I somewhat regretted the Idaho slam ... as
you may have guessed, I love the state ... I very nearly moved to the area
east of Twin Falls, west of that big lake/ Pocatello, about 20 years ago,

But,

I've had 4 guns seriously pointed at me in my 12 to 14 years g ( thanks Mr
Gang, I needed that, I was feeling kinda old ) and two of the guns were in
Idaho ... both times by people I can only describe as reminding me of
Deliverance ( sp ), the movie, scary back country, government hating,
paranoid, weird, and both times scared me .... the other two times were cops
.... not a big problem ...

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
. ..


I've lived in rural Idaho for five years, now, and I've never met anyone
who comes even close to the maniac you described.

In fact, I've found that folks around here are FAR more civil to one
another than people in (for example) the SF Bay Area. My community is
full of long-simmering feuds that will go all the way to the grave, and
maybe beyond, but strangers are treated with respect.


Really? So, you've moved since you mentioned that a moderate to large crowd
of them would bravely band together to stomp the **** out of someone who
gave voice to an unpopular point of view?

Strangers are treated with respect UNTIL they start mouthing off in a
cowboy bar. The typical bar fight, however, is caused by a local hitting
on a tourist's woman.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

I've had 4 guns seriously pointed at me in my 12 to 14 years g ( thanks
Mr
Gang, I needed that, I was feeling kinda old ) and two of the guns were in
Idaho ... both times by people I can only describe as reminding me of
Deliverance ( sp ), the movie, scary back country, government hating,
paranoid, weird, and both times scared me ....

WHAT??!! Only four times SERIOUSLY??!! I'm going to go out on a limb here
and guess that it has never occurred to you that the SERIOUSLY ****ed up
world you live in has precious little to do with the planet you happen to
inhabit. I have spent a lifetime handling guns and surrounded by other
people with guns. I have lived in Milwaukee, Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore.
I have spent a great deal of time in Chicago and Philadelphia, and a bit in
many other major metropolitan areas. I currently live in what is politely
described as a "mixed" neighborhood. I have NEVER had a gun pointed at
me.....well, I HAVE encountered a significant number of careless fools who,
I assure you, learned a hard lesson about carelessness.....but I think that
if it ever happens I will very likely consider it SERIOUS regardless of
circumstances. To think of ANY such incident as anything other than
EXTREMELY serious is to betray a level of stupidity that should certainly be
viewed as criminal.

the other two times were cops

Oh, well, that's o.k. then. The result of being shot by an officer of the
law is not at all the same kind of dead........right?

... not a big problem ...

Well, as long as it's YOU, and not me, I guess we are agreed.

Wolfgang
who, reading some of the **** in here, is never quite sure if he did too
many drugs or not enough.

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

"rw" wrote in message
. ..

Strangers are treated with respect UNTIL they start mouthing off in a
cowboy bar.

Stepping in something that one preferes to avoid can generally be shrugged
off as carelesness. Stomping on it repeatedly is bound to be a bit more
difficult to explain. Good luck. :)

The typical bar fight, however, is caused by a local hitting
on a tourist's woman.

My, my......how charming and respectful.

Wolfgang
who swears to god that he does not pay these people to do this..

A Plea for Sanity
 

Wolfgang wrote:
"Larry Medina" wrote in message
I guess the drugs are working


Maybe better than you thought. Um.....you DO know that you've been MIA for
a while.......right?

Well, yeah... and your point is? I dunno, I might be better off for
having been gone for awhile. Having been on the sidelines seems to have
it's advantages at times =)

L

A Plea for Sanity in fishing dogs
 

Larry L wrote:

... If I'd have been a roffreader back on
those days, I might have emulated our fast thinking, all balls, heroes
around here and said, " You are a worthless ****ing putz you asshole
trailer trash maggot." ...

If you're stupid enough to flap your jaws at a guy holding a hand gun
you ain't emulating anybody around here that I've ever met. But you're
the guy who spent a summer in a trailer in West Yellowstone, right ?
Maybe you are that stupid.

--
Ken Fortenberry

A Plea for Sanity
 

"Tom Littleton" wrote in message
...
All,
It has been noted, by some who a regulars, and some who are less
frequent
posters, that ROFF has gotten nearly painful to read of late. Bitter
exchanges,
misinterpretations, off-hand insults and the like are far too common, the
latest example being Dave LaCourse's "dialogue" with several folks.
Perhaps it
is, as suggested, the annual "cabin fever". I think, in some cases, it
goes
deeper than that. Here in the US, we are in the midst of a divisive
election
year. Further, as noted in his own posts, David has some serious health
worries. I think such worries can, and do, color one's tolerance and
manner of
dealing with others. About a year back, Mike Connor and I had a bitter
exchange, which upon reflection was probably made ...

.... Take the tongue-in-check stuff with a grain of salt,
understand the limitations of Usenet communication and try to bring
something
to the table that is positive once in a while. I'll probably get the
predicatable amount of response along the lines of "don't tell me what to
do...",etc, but really couldn't care less. I am not telling anyone what to
do,
just hoping that some can find it in their souls to do the right thing,
and act
like adults.
Tom




Validation, I believe is what it is called.

--
James Ehlers

Outdoors Magazine
www.outdoorsmagazine.net