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What is this knot called?
I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman.
It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel |
What is this knot called?
Lionel F. Stevenson wrote:
I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html Looks like a Gordian knot to me. Chuck Vance |
What is this knot called?
"Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel I think you are referring to the turle knot... http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/doubleturtle.html JT |
What is this knot called?
"Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel I call it "way more complicated than it needs to be". Mark |
What is this knot called?
"Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. According to the illustration, the line passes through the eye of the hook from left to right and then makes a sweeping bend back to the left. The rest of the gyrations cause the working end to cross the original running line a total of five times, but ALL of these crosses occur above the running line.....NONE of them below. The net result of this is that the original bend is not involved in the knot in any way. The knot.....whatever it may be called and whatever use it may allegedly serve.....appears to be nothing more than a large and needlessly complicated stopper. Wolfgang |
What is this knot called?
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. According to the illustration, the line passes through the eye of the hook from left to right and then makes a sweeping bend back to the left. The rest of the gyrations cause the working end to cross the original running line a total of five times, but ALL of these crosses occur above the running line.....NONE of them below. The net result of this is that the original bend is not involved in the knot in any way. The knot.....whatever it may be called and whatever use it may allegedly serve.....appears to be nothing more than a large and needlessly complicated stopper. Wolfgang It looks to me the hook should be on the right side of the loop (knot) instead of on the left?, as I was looking at the diagram. -tom |
What is this knot called?
Wolfgang typed:
"Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. . . That's because *I* developed it years ago: http://css.sbcma.com/timj/pics/knot.jpg -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
What is this knot called?
Wolfgang wrote:
"Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. According to the illustration, the line passes through the eye of the hook from left to right and then makes a sweeping bend back to the left. The rest of the gyrations cause the working end to cross the original running line a total of five times, but ALL of these crosses occur above the running line.....NONE of them below. The net result of this is that the original bend is not involved in the knot in any way. The knot.....whatever it may be called and whatever use it may allegedly serve.....appears to be nothing more than a large and needlessly complicated stopper. Like Jeff Taylor posted, it's a double turle, but it's very poorly illustrated. Jeff posted a better link, and here's another. http://www.pechetruite.com/Noeuds/hook6.htm It's not a "stopper." The knot forms a loop (two loops, actually) that secures to the shank of the hook just behind the eye. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
What is this knot called?
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message ... It looks to me the hook should be on the right side of the loop (knot) instead of on the left?, as I was looking at the diagram. Given that the bend is uninvolved in the knot, it wouldn't make any difference. Imagine this lying flat on a table. Placing the point of a pencil anywhere inside the snarl of loops and pushing it away from you would make the whole mess slide off of the running line between the hook and the bend at the right. In other words, you could indeed place the hook on the right, but it would be easy to do that as things stand in the picture by simply sliding it over.....nothing would be disturbed in the process. The knot (if knot it actually is.....I haven't looked closely enough to be sure) is the mass of coils in the center, between the hook and the bend. The bend itself CANNOT be a part of the knot as it is pictured. Wolfgang |
What is this knot called?
"Tim J." wrote... No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. . . That's because *I* developed it years ago: http://css.sbcma.com/timj/pics/knot.jpg -- TL, Tim LOL... Looks like my initial attempts at nailknots, Albrights, etc., etc. Luckily, I've found a few easy to tie knots that my not-so-nimble fingers can manage. Dan |
What is this knot called?
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "Tom Nakashima" wrote in message ... It looks to me the hook should be on the right side of the loop (knot) instead of on the left?, as I was looking at the diagram. Given that the bend is uninvolved in the knot, it wouldn't make any difference. Imagine this lying flat on a table. Placing the point of a pencil anywhere inside the snarl of loops and pushing it away from you would make the whole mess slide off of the running line between the hook and the bend at the right. In other words, you could indeed place the hook on the right, but it would be easy to do that as things stand in the picture by simply sliding it over.....nothing would be disturbed in the process. The knot (if knot it actually is.....I haven't looked closely enough to be sure) is the mass of coils in the center, between the hook and the bend. The bend itself CANNOT be a part of the knot as it is pictured. Wolfgang Yes Wolfgang, you're right as I further read the description...makes no difference of the hook or no hook. -tom |
What is this knot called?
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. According to the illustration, the line passes through the eye of the hook from left to right and then makes a sweeping bend back to the left. The rest of the gyrations cause the working end to cross the original running line a total of five times, but ALL of these crosses occur above the running line.....NONE of them below. The net result of this is that the original bend is not involved in the knot in any way. The knot.....whatever it may be called and whatever use it may allegedly serve.....appears to be nothing more than a large and needlessly complicated stopper. Like Jeff Taylor posted, it's a double turle, but it's very poorly illustrated. Jeff posted a better link, and here's another. http://www.pechetruite.com/Noeuds/hook6.htm It's not a "stopper." The knot forms a loop (two loops, actually) that secures to the shank of the hook just behind the eye. Hm...... Well, I suppose that someone COULD put that mess through a series of gyrations that just might conceivably end up in something resembling a turle knot......in the same sense that someone might assemble a pile of loose car parts into something that might conceivably resemble a Ferrari.....but a pile of loose car parts isn't a Ferrari (actually, it's a Corvair.....if memory serves) and that isn't a turle knot. What it is, in fact, is a needlessly complex stopper lying on the running line and cleverly disguised to look like a stopper lying on the running line. Um......maybe it would help if you looked long and closely at Tim's masterful illustration of the original? Meanwhile...... You really just CANNOT help doing this......can you? :) Wolfgang who feels that a reminder of the distinction between what the boy CANNOT do and what he WILL NOT do would be superfluous in light of the above. |
What is this knot called?
Wolfgang wrote:
Meanwhile...... Whatever. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
What is this knot called?
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Hm......o.k. What's ambient atmospheric pressure at a thousand (not 6,000) fathoms? What was it like to meet Tim? Wolfgang who is beginning to think that the boy just WILL NOT learn. :) |
What is this knot called?
Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Whatever. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
What is this knot called?
Tim J. wrote:
No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. . . That's because *I* developed it years ago: http://css.sbcma.com/timj/pics/knot.jpg Don't buy into Timmy's lie - he's proselytizing for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster again. Check this out and compare it to Tommy's drawing. I swear he's been touched by His Noodly Appendage. http://www.venganza.org/him2.jpg -- Stan Gula http://gula.org/roffswaps |
What is this knot called?
Stan Gula wrote:
Tim J. wrote: No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. . . That's because *I* developed it years ago: http://css.sbcma.com/timj/pics/knot.jpg Don't buy into Timmy's lie - he's proselytizing for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster again. Check this out and compare it to Tommy's drawing. I swear he's been touched by His Noodly Appendage. http://www.venganza.org/him2.jpg Add a couple of meatballs, and I'm there! -- TL, Tim --------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
What is this knot called?
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Whatever. Whatever? Hm..... O.k. Would you say that EVERY teenage girl is someone's daughter? What's sacred? Wolfgang everybody who thinks the boy is capable of learning......here's your chance to stand up and be heard. :) |
What is this knot called?
Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message . com... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Sama sama. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
What is this knot called?
"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message ... Lionel F. Stevenson wrote: I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html Looks like a Gordian knot to me. Chuck Vance Is this the knot that Alexander cut with his sword??? john |
What is this knot called?
"Mark W. Oots" mark_ctc@(no spam)ameritech.net wrote in message ... "Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel I call it "way more complicated than it needs to be". Mark Okay, maye I've been away for a while...who are you oots? john |
What is this knot called?
I think you are referring to the turle knot... http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/doubleturtle.html JT .. . . and isn't the purpose of that knot to enable the user to determine whether the hook rides up or down? ? ? john |
What is this knot called?
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 13:55:30 -0700, rw
wrote: Wolfgang wrote: "Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote in message ... I haven't seen this knot anywhere. It was shown to me by a Salmon fisherman. It is tied so the knot is on the underside of a down turned eye, and on the top of an upturned eye. http://www.cameraart.ca/knot.html -- Lionel No idea what this is. However, it looks mighty peculiar. According to the illustration, the line passes through the eye of the hook from left to right and then makes a sweeping bend back to the left. The rest of the gyrations cause the working end to cross the original running line a total of five times, but ALL of these crosses occur above the running line.....NONE of them below. The net result of this is that the original bend is not involved in the knot in any way. The knot.....whatever it may be called and whatever use it may allegedly serve.....appears to be nothing more than a large and needlessly complicated stopper. Like Jeff Taylor posted, it's a double turle, but it's very poorly illustrated. Jeff posted a better link, and here's another. http://www.pechetruite.com/Noeuds/hook6.htm It's not a "stopper." The knot forms a loop (two loops, actually) that secures to the shank of the hook just behind the eye. I suspect that Lionel was attempting to illustrate a Double Turle. What he did illustrate is not a Double Turle. |
What is this knot called?
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 04:21:26 GMT, "asadi"
wrote: I think you are referring to the turle knot... http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/doubleturtle.html JT . . . and isn't the purpose of that knot to enable the user to determine whether the hook rides up or down? ? ? john To put an in-line force from the line to the shank of up- or down-turned eye hooks, thus making hookup more certain. R |
What is this knot called?
LOL. I just tied it as illustrated in a piece of rope: what a
cluster****!! The last small loop tightens on the larger loops so quickly that the first larger loop cannot slide through, and the whole thing binds up before it can tighten. And wolfie's right: the original bend has nothing to do with anything. This definately falls into the category of "If you can't tie a good knot, tie a lot of knots". I bet he is referring to a Turle know, as was stated before. --riverman |
What is this knot called?
asadi wrote:
"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message ... Looks like a Gordian knot to me. Is this the knot that Alexander cut with his sword??? Yep, that's it. I was starting to wonder if my attempt at humor had gone right over everyone's head. Chuck Vance (but I should have known that nothing could go over your head, John ;-) |
What is this knot called?
"Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote snip... Perhaps this is too trivial for you. -- Lionel Nothing is too trivial for ROFF.... Dan |
What is this knot called?
Lionel F. Stevenson wrote:
snip It is not a double turle. It is, however, a great knot, and I use it to tie fly to tippet almost always. Perhaps my illustration is at fault. Perhaps I'll do another illustration to share this great knot with you. Perhaps I'll not. Perhaps this is too trivial for you. ??? We *live* for this! -- TL, Tim --------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
What is this knot called?
Are you SURE the diagram is completely correct? As Wolfie politely put
it (trust me), that initial bend is meaningless, as the entire pile of loops lies on top of it so it is not bound up in the knot. Also, the last loop (the little one on top) is not an overhand, its just two twists through the big loops. The way you drew it, it looks like you mean for it to be an overhand. Double-check your diagram. I can't see how this is any more than a fancy double-overhand stopper, the way its shown. With lots of extra twists that fall out immediately. --riverman |
What is this knot called?
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:56:03 GMT, "Lionel F. Stevenson"
wrote: I suspect that Lionel was attempting to illustrate a Double Turle. What he did illustrate is not a Double Turle. It is not a double turle. Hence my statement above regarding, ahem, it not being a Double Turle... It is, however, a great knot, and I use it to tie fly to tippet almost always. "..almost always..." Gracie? And staples to connect your backing to your reel? Assuming this knot to actually be a workable force-directing knot, unless the "almost always" is that you "almost always" only fish where one would appropriately use up- or downturned eye hooks and match the two usages, you might wish to rethink this move...perhaps not... Perhaps my illustration is at fault. Yeah, perhaps...perhaps the knot just sucks... Perhaps I'll do another illustration to share this great knot with you. Perhaps I'll not. It isn't a "great knot," properly illustrated or otherwise, and you could assemble the finest team of knot-illustrators to "share it" with me, but you'll be wasting your time as I'll not bother to learn it. Assuming it gets some new (and accurate) wonder illustration, it will be (at best) yet another knot with which nobody really needs to bother. Turle knots and similar are a group of specific-purpose knots that solve a particular "problem." Learning myriad similar knots that are of no real-world practical advantage over one another offers nothing to fishers, sailors, riggers, loaders, or other practical knot users. Knotheads OTOH... Perhaps this is too trivial for you. With regard to arguing about it, no perhaps about it... HTH, R |
What is this knot called?
in article ,
at wrote on 11/10/05 11:33 AM: On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:56:03 GMT, "Lionel F. Stevenson" wrote: I suspect that Lionel was attempting to illustrate a Double Turle. What he did illustrate is not a Double Turle. It is not a double turle. Hence my statement above regarding, ahem, it not being a Double Turle... It is, however, a great knot, and I use it to tie fly to tippet almost always. "..almost always..." Gracie? And staples to connect your backing to your reel? Assuming this knot to actually be a workable force-directing knot, unless the "almost always" is that you "almost always" only fish where one would appropriately use up- or downturned eye hooks and match the two usages, you might wish to rethink this move...perhaps not... Perhaps my illustration is at fault. Yeah, perhaps...perhaps the knot just sucks... Perhaps I'll do another illustration to share this great knot with you. Perhaps I'll not. It isn't a "great knot," properly illustrated or otherwise, and you could assemble the finest team of knot-illustrators to "share it" with me, but you'll be wasting your time as I'll not bother to learn it. Assuming it gets some new (and accurate) wonder illustration, it will be (at best) yet another knot with which nobody really needs to bother. Turle knots and similar are a group of specific-purpose knots that solve a particular "problem." Learning myriad similar knots that are of no real-world practical advantage over one another offers nothing to fishers, sailors, riggers, loaders, or other practical knot users. Knotheads OTOH... Perhaps this is too trivial for you. With regard to arguing about it, no perhaps about it... HTH, R BYE. -- Lionel |
What is this knot called?
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message .com... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Sama sama. Lionel says, "It is not a double turle." I wish you the best of luck in convincing him. :) Wolfgang |
What is this knot called?
Wolfgang wrote:
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message . com... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message g.com... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Sama sama. Lionel says, "It is not a double turle." I wish you the best of luck in convincing him. :) Wolfgang Machts nicht. Que sera sera. Whatever. Chill, dude. -- Cut "to the chase" for my email address. |
What is this knot called?
"rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message ... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message .com... Wolfgang wrote: "rw" wrote in message ng.com... Wolfgang wrote: Meanwhile...... Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Whatever. Whatever? Double turle. Sama sama. Lionel says, "It is not a double turle." I wish you the best of luck in convincing him. :) Wolfgang Machts nicht. Que sera sera. Whatever. Chill, dude. Hee, hee, hee. Wolfgang who would bet a shiny new nickel they can hear the teeth grinding all the way to the right coast. :) |
What is this knot called?
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:58:03 GMT, "Lionel F. Stevenson"
wrote: BYE. -- Lionel Sell. -- R |
What is this knot called?
"Jonathan Cook" wrote in message ... riverman wrote: it (trust me), that initial bend is meaningless, as the entire pile of Looks so to me, too....but did you take the two bigger loops and place them over the fly? That part is not on the diagram but is in the directions. (I think -- it's not available anymore) Double-check your diagram. I can't see how this is any more than a fancy double-overhand stopper, the way its shown. If you place the loops over the fly and snug it down like a Turle? I just tried to go back and take another look at the diagram. Apparently it isn't available any more either. At any rate, trying to determine what might result from various manipulations of what was depicted there might be an interesting exercise in topological visualization, but unless someone tries it with real line of some sort and then shows a step by step representation along with the original it's gonna be a tough sell. Wolfgang who knows that a drawing of a straight piece of string passing through the eye of a fish hook is indeed an accurate depiction of a turle knot.......in it's infancy. :) |
What is this knot called?
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 06:44:42 -0600, Conan The Librarian
wrote: asadi wrote: "Conan The Librarian" wrote in message ... Looks like a Gordian knot to me. Is this the knot that Alexander cut with his sword??? Yep, that's it. I was starting to wonder if my attempt at humor had gone right over everyone's head. One of those things where the comment was so accurate that nobody said anything? And then it led to the thoughts of what kind of knots the snakes of the Gorgon could have tied... Chuck Vance (but I should have known that nothing could go over your head, John ;-) Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
What is this knot called?
On 10 Nov 2005 20:10:38 GMT, (Jonathan Cook) wrote:
rw wrote: Machts nicht. Que sera sera. Whatever. Chill, dude. What language is that last one in? Jon. Italian? Big hit of a song back in the 50s or 60s. Before rock 'n roll took over the charts. If I recall aright, it means "What will be, will be." Cyli r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels. Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. http://www.visi.com/~cyli email: lid (strip the .invalid to email) |
What is this knot called?
Cyli typed:
On 10 Nov 2005 20:10:38 GMT, (Jonathan Cook) wrote: rw wrote: Machts nicht. Que sera sera. Whatever. Chill, dude. What language is that last one in? Jon. Italian? Big hit of a song back in the 50s or 60s. Before rock 'n roll took over the charts. If I recall aright, it means "What will be, will be." Uh. . . I think Jon meant the "Chill, dude" part. -- TL, Tim ------------------------ http://css.sbcma.com/timj/ |
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