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-   -   Fisherman dies in Junction Pool (http://www.fishingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=22524)

Scott Seidman June 5th, 2006 07:59 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
June 04, 2006
Fisherman dies in Junction Pool

By Melissa Rennie
Times Herald-Record

Roscoe - Justin Everrett, a 44-year-old New Jersey man, drowned about
4:30 p.m. yesterday in the turbulent waters of Junction Pool in Roscoe,
where he had been fly-fishing with four friends.
State police said the tragedy occurred when Everrett fell as he was
wading across the pool to join his friends.
Trooper Michael Park explained that where the Willowemoc and Beaverkill
rivers meet at the pool, "The water swirls around, and it's dug a pit
there."
Trooper Michael Schroeder said that while people often cross either
river safely by backing away from the pool first, it appears that
Everrett attempted to wade across too near the pool.
When he fell, the current pulled him under.
Everrett and his four lifetime buddies, Joseph Brice and Dennis Talal
of New Jersey and Richard Dingiloo and Charles Schilerro of New York,
were staying at the Roscoe Motel for a weekend of fly-fishing before
things went horribly wrong.
The four men told state troopers at the scene that they saw Everrett
go under. He came back up and yelled for help. As they moved to help
him, he went under again and never came back up.
Members of the Sullivan County dive team, volunteer ambulance corps
and New York state troopers responded to the scene.
The dive team retrieved Everrett's body from the pool, and medical
personnel administered CPR before transporting him to Catskill Regional
Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead at 6:28 p.m.
Senior Investigator Mike Orrego said Everrett was wearing chest
waders. "Once they fill up, it's like wearing an anchor," he said.
"There was something morbid about this, about people there. We had to
keep chasing them away. Here this man just lost his life and all they
wanted to do was get back to fishing," he added.



Scott Seidman June 5th, 2006 08:01 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and knee-level
would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response time.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Tom Nakashima June 5th, 2006 08:59 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and knee-level
would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response time.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


Sorry to hear about Justin Everrett. I also wear chest waders and it scares
the heck out of me when fishing fast rivers.
The test that was done on waders here in roff really caught my attention.
I'm tempted to order one of those SOS Inflatable Floatation Belt Pack.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_c...&feature_id=17
-tom



Scott Seidman June 5th, 2006 09:27 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this
happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and
knee-level would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response time.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


Sorry to hear about Justin Everrett. I also wear chest waders and it
scares the heck out of me when fishing fast rivers.
The test that was done on waders here in roff really caught my
attention. I'm tempted to order one of those SOS Inflatable Floatation
Belt Pack.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_c...dir_id=758&gro
up_id=10758&cat_id=10769&subcat_id=10770&feature_i d=17 -tom




I know there's the age-old debate about whether full waders impede motion
in the water. My own opinion is that they can't make things easier, and
that there is the potential that the wearer can get pushed about like a
boat with a drift sock.

I suspect, but can't be sure, that the biggest contributing factors to
many such tragic incidents are poor swimming skills in conjunction with
simple panic. I might look into the SOSpenders, eventually. I looked at
a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety. I am concerned
that these inflatable PFD's might get in my way, though.



--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Ken Fortenberry June 5th, 2006 09:34 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Scott Seidman wrote:

... I looked at
a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety. ...


A hundred bucks for a wading staff ?!!? That sounds
excessive for a wading staff unless it comes with
built-in radar, wet bar, liquor cabinet and humidor. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Tom Nakashima June 5th, 2006 09:46 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this
happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and
knee-level would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response time.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


Sorry to hear about Justin Everrett. I also wear chest waders and it
scares the heck out of me when fishing fast rivers.
The test that was done on waders here in roff really caught my
attention. I'm tempted to order one of those SOS Inflatable Floatation
Belt Pack.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_c...dir_id=758&gro
up_id=10758&cat_id=10769&subcat_id=10770&feature_i d=17 -tom




I know there's the age-old debate about whether full waders impede motion
in the water. My own opinion is that they can't make things easier, and
that there is the potential that the wearer can get pushed about like a
boat with a drift sock.

I suspect, but can't be sure, that the biggest contributing factors to
many such tragic incidents are poor swimming skills in conjunction with
simple panic. I might look into the SOSpenders, eventually. I looked at
a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety. I am concerned
that these inflatable PFD's might get in my way, though.
--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


Poor swimming skills and panic attack might best describe me. I can swim,
but not in a fast moving current, and I have a feeling I would panic no
matter how much I try to keep myself calm. I think I'm going to do it, buy
the SOS Inflatable Floatation Belt Pack. I fish a lot of fast moving rivers.

I saw a documentary on survival, where this well fit male backpacker in his
30's had to float down a river for 1.5 miles in a medium flowing current by
clinching onto an inflatable pack mounted on the front of his chest. He
made it safe, but at the end of the 1.5 miles, he was pretty exhausted, he
could barely pull himself out of the water.
-tom



Scott Seidman June 5th, 2006 10:04 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Ken Fortenberry wrote in news:nz0hg.16563
:

Scott Seidman wrote:

... I looked at
a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety. ...


A hundred bucks for a wading staff ?!!? That sounds
excessive for a wading staff unless it comes with
built-in radar, wet bar, liquor cabinet and humidor. ;-)


You misunderstand, Ken. That wading staff is a staff of four guys who
stand around me making sure I don't fall!! The hundred bucks is really a
hundred bucks an hour!

Actually, that hundred bucks (or close to it anyway) was for the thicker
Folstaff. I like having a collapsible staff that I don't have to worry
about toting along or tripping over. It deploys rapidly when I need it.
There is some tendency for the segments to get a little "stuck" when you
want to collapse it, as the tolerance on the fit is pretty tight, but
once you learn the trick of rolling the stuck joint on your knee, the
problem becomes less of a problem. The important thing is that the
three-cushion ****-around happens when you're already out of trouble, and
the thing deploys real fast when you need it.

Simms makes a nice one now, but deployment seems a tad less automatic
than the Folstaff, and it didn't exist when I bought mine. If I were
buying one today, I would do a serious A-B comparison before buying
either.

I've taken one good bath with the Folstaff on hand, at Penn's, but I'm
pretty sure it's saved me from three or four more--and probably a dozen
or more if you count those wading situations that I should have avoided
in the first place. The real trick is being sure not to use the staff to
wade yourself INTO trouble.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott Seidman June 5th, 2006 10:08 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Scott Seidman wrote in
. 1.4:


You misunderstand, Ken. That wading staff is a staff of four guys who
stand around me making sure I don't fall!! The hundred bucks is
really a hundred bucks an hour!


By the way-- one of the only pictures I can recall of me with a trout was
taken this trip, http://www.mindspring.com/~scottseidman/willow2.jpg

That's on the Willowemoc, about 200 yards above the iron bridge at rt 17 in
downtown Roscoe, not far from the Dette place. Not a bad fish for the 3wt
Sage SP I was using. Things would have been easier with the 5-wt T&T I
used for subsequent outings that trip.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Tim J. June 5th, 2006 10:39 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Scott Seidman typed:
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this
happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and
knee-level would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response
time.


Sorry to hear about Justin Everrett. I also wear chest waders and it
scares the heck out of me when fishing fast rivers.
The test that was done on waders here in roff really caught my
attention. I'm tempted to order one of those SOS Inflatable
Floatation Belt Pack.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_c...dir_id=758&gro
up_id=10758&cat_id=10769&subcat_id=10770&feature_i d=17 -tom


I know there's the age-old debate about whether full waders impede
motion in the water. My own opinion is that they can't make things
easier, and that there is the potential that the wearer can get
pushed about like a boat with a drift sock.

I suspect, but can't be sure, that the biggest contributing factors to
many such tragic incidents are poor swimming skills in conjunction
with simple panic. I might look into the SOSpenders, eventually. I
looked at a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety.
I am concerned that these inflatable PFD's might get in my way,
though.


Sad to hear of this, but I think the primary cause was wading beyond a safe
level, as you mentioned above. I have a fishing partner who regularly takes
water over the top of whatever he's wearing, whether it be calf-high,
hippers, or chest waders - he always goes one step beyond what he can safely
handle. The inside of my current waders, which I've had for several years,
have never seen any water at all save that of the washing machine. Another
thing is that I've seen a LOT of people use waders without a belt, including
my reckless friend. Not me. I always wear a snug belt whether or not I think
I'll be wading beyond knee-high water. Big water and slippery rocks scare me
and if that makes me a sissy, then so be it. At least I'm alive to be called
a sissy.

IIRC, Myron did a pool experiment regarding waders and taking on water a
year or so ago that would be worth revisiting on this occasion.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



Allen Epps June 5th, 2006 10:43 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
In article ,
Scott Seidman wrote:


I know there's the age-old debate about whether full waders impede motion
in the water. My own opinion is that they can't make things easier, and
that there is the potential that the wearer can get pushed about like a
boat with a drift sock.

I suspect, but can't be sure, that the biggest contributing factors to
many such tragic incidents are poor swimming skills in conjunction with
simple panic. I might look into the SOSpenders, eventually. I looked at
a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety. I am concerned
that these inflatable PFD's might get in my way, though.


Well, I've fished around Frank enough you would think I could validate
this but alas.

FWIW I consider myself an average swimmer so doing the Naval Aircrew
Deep Water Aviation Survival stuff every four years was pretty
intimidating. The reality was though as long as you were calm and didn't
panic I think anyone could handle themselves with waders on. The Navy
test included a mile swim in a flight suit, tread water in full flight
gear for 15 minutes then drown proof for 15 minutes followed by 75 yard
swim using three strokes. Flight gear for me was a g-suit, torso
harness, flight suit , boots, uninflated survival vest and helmet and
oxygen mask. Total of about 45 lbs of gear before it got waterlogged.
There was a bunch of other stuff but that was the periodic requal stuff.

I've never seen the Junction pool of course and in rough water it could
certainly been a damn near impossible task. Perhaps we would all be wise
to find a place, have a buddy handy and intentionally fill the waders
just to see how it works.

Allen

Scott Seidman June 5th, 2006 10:59 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Allen Epps wrote in news:gaepps1-
:


I've never seen the Junction pool of course and in rough water it could
certainly been a damn near impossible task. Perhaps we would all be wise
to find a place, have a buddy handy and intentionally fill the waders
just to see how it works.



The more I think about it, the more I think some sort of PFD is a good
idea. The "don't panic" mandate is pretty good, but we're not always in
control. Picture banging your head during the fall--you might end up just
disoriented enough to do something stupid. Also, the fall might be the
result of something other than a slip-- a diabetic could lose regulation,
you could get dizzy, your leg could cramp up from a combination of
dehydration and fighting the current all day long, and a long list of other
things.

I don't like the belts, and I think the one you wear around your neck would
get in your way, but the minute they build a PFD into a reasonable chest
pack, I think I'll be all over it.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

jimbo June 5th, 2006 11:17 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
Allen Epps wrote in news:gaepps1-
:


Also, the fall might be the

result of something other than a slip-- a diabetic could lose regulation,
you could get dizzy, your leg could cramp up from a combination of
dehydration and fighting the current all day long, and a long list of
other
things.

I don't like the belts, and I think the one you wear around your neck
would
get in your way, but the minute they build a PFD into a reasonable chest
pack, I think I'll be all over it.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


A guide friend had a client faint while wading the Madison River. She was
elderly, and had a history of disorientation due to dehydration and the
elevation. He had just turned to walk toward her husband when he heard her
fall. Fortunately, he was just a few steps away, and was able to grab her
before it became tragic. I think it changed his thinking about wading belts,
hydration, and probably self-inflating SOS!

Jim Ray



rw June 6th, 2006 01:55 AM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Scott Seidman wrote:

Simms makes a nice one now, but deployment seems a tad less automatic
than the Folstaff, and it didn't exist when I bought mine. If I were
buying one today, I would do a serious A-B comparison before buying
either.


I really like my Simms wading staff. I think it has a more robust design
that the Folstaff.

BTW, this afternoon I tagged along on a training raft trip down the
Salmon River, which flows through Stanley. The water is super high --
higher than the guides have ever seen it. Two class IV rapids and three
class IIIs. It was a blast and for the fist time I didn't fall out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

asadi June 6th, 2006 06:40 AM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
June 04, 2006
Fisherman dies in Junction Pool

By Melissa Rennie
Times Herald-Record

Roscoe - Justin Everrett, a 44-year-old New Jersey man, drowned about
4:30 p.m. yesterday in the turbulent waters of Junction Pool in Roscoe,
where he had been fly-fishing with four friends.
State police said the tragedy occurred when Everrett fell as he was
wading across the pool to join his friends.
Trooper Michael Park explained that where the Willowemoc and Beaverkill
rivers meet at the pool, "The water swirls around, and it's dug a pit
there."
Trooper Michael Schroeder said that while people often cross either
river safely by backing away from the pool first, it appears that
Everrett attempted to wade across too near the pool.
When he fell, the current pulled him under.
Everrett and his four lifetime buddies, Joseph Brice and Dennis Talal
of New Jersey and Richard Dingiloo and Charles Schilerro of New York,
were staying at the Roscoe Motel for a weekend of fly-fishing before
things went horribly wrong.
The four men told state troopers at the scene that they saw Everrett
go under. He came back up and yelled for help. As they moved to help
him, he went under again and never came back up.
Members of the Sullivan County dive team, volunteer ambulance corps
and New York state troopers responded to the scene.
The dive team retrieved Everrett's body from the pool, and medical
personnel administered CPR before transporting him to Catskill Regional
Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead at 6:28 p.m.
Senior Investigator Mike Orrego said Everrett was wearing chest
waders. "Once they fill up, it's like wearing an anchor," he said.
"There was something morbid about this, about people there. We had to
keep chasing them away. Here this man just lost his life and all they
wanted to do was get back to fishing," he added.



Yo, Frank.


john



riverman June 6th, 2006 12:17 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
IIRC, Myron did a pool experiment regarding waders and taking on water a
year or so ago that would be worth revisiting on this occasion.
--


YWIMC
http://tinyurl.com/rkd3p

--riverman



Scott Seidman June 6th, 2006 01:12 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
"riverman" wrote in :

http://tinyurl.com/rkd3p


Thanks.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Conan The Librarian June 6th, 2006 01:33 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
Scott Seidman wrote:

"riverman" wrote in :


http://tinyurl.com/rkd3p



Thanks.


FWIW, another data point:
http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/killerwader.shtml


Chuck Vance (who makes no claims as to the accuracy of the
article, but found it interesting nonetheless)


Tom Nakashima June 6th, 2006 02:22 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

"rw" wrote in message
m...
Scott Seidman wrote:

Simms makes a nice one now, but deployment seems a tad less automatic
than the Folstaff, and it didn't exist when I bought mine. If I were
buying one today, I would do a serious A-B comparison before buying
either.


I really like my Simms wading staff. I think it has a more robust design
that the Folstaff.

BTW, this afternoon I tagged along on a training raft trip down the Salmon
River, which flows through Stanley. The water is super high --
higher than the guides have ever seen it. Two class IV rapids and three
class IIIs. It was a blast and for the fist time I didn't fall out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


I also have the Simms wading staff, rubber handle, easy to deploy and
retract, shock cord, compact, neoprene holster.
-tom



David June 7th, 2006 10:36 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:
"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this
happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and
knee-level would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response time.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Sorry to hear about Justin Everrett. I also wear chest waders and it
scares the heck out of me when fishing fast rivers.
The test that was done on waders here in roff really caught my
attention. I'm tempted to order one of those SOS Inflatable Floatation
Belt Pack.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_c...dir_id=758&gro
up_id=10758&cat_id=10769&subcat_id=10770&feature_i d=17 -tom




I know there's the age-old debate about whether full waders impede motion
in the water. My own opinion is that they can't make things easier, and
that there is the potential that the wearer can get pushed about like a
boat with a drift sock.

I suspect, but can't be sure, that the biggest contributing factors to
many such tragic incidents are poor swimming skills in conjunction with
simple panic. I might look into the SOSpenders, eventually. I looked at
a wading staff as a c-note well spent on personal safety. I am concerned
that these inflatable PFD's might get in my way, though.
--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


Poor swimming skills and panic attack might best describe me. I can swim,
but not in a fast moving current, and I have a feeling I would panic no
matter how much I try to keep myself calm. I think I'm going to do it, buy
the SOS Inflatable Floatation Belt Pack. I fish a lot of fast moving rivers.

I saw a documentary on survival, where this well fit male backpacker in his
30's had to float down a river for 1.5 miles in a medium flowing current by
clinching onto an inflatable pack mounted on the front of his chest. He
made it safe, but at the end of the 1.5 miles, he was pretty exhausted, he
could barely pull himself out of the water.
-tom


I'd definately recommend wearing a chest high belt cinched firm when
wading unknown, suspicios waters. You may slip but the belt *should*
keep the water from filling the waders. There are waders out there that
come with belt loops and a belt or as an optional purchase. I used to
do a lot of surf fishing on Cape Cod, and such a belt was considered a
necessity. It's my humble opinion that with waders full of water a Mark
Spits would have a hard time making it ashore.

Don't feel bad. ANYONE would be entirely justified being scared
birdless in such a situation. Think about using a wading belt as a
matter of habit.

David N.


George C June 8th, 2006 06:47 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
I was about 6 pools downstream from the Junction Pool when this
happened.
The water was big. I limited myself to mid-thigh wading, and
knee-level would have been much safer.

FWIW, everyone raved about the Roscoe emergency crew's response time.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply


Sorry to hear about Justin Everrett. I also wear chest waders and it
scares the heck out of me when fishing fast rivers.
The test that was done on waders here in roff really caught my
attention. I'm tempted to order one of those SOS Inflatable Floatation
Belt Pack.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_c...7RP&dir_id=758

&gro
up_id=10758&cat_id=10769&subcat_id=10770&feature_i d=17 -tom



I can agree that chest waders in swift waters scare the be-jeesus out of
me - A THIGHTLY chhinched belt helps prevent the inrush of water and
also traps air providing at least a modicum of boyency

[email protected] June 12th, 2006 02:54 AM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

Scott Seidman wrote:

......The more I think about it, the more I think some sort of PFD is a good
idea. ....


A PFD isn't a bad idea, but based on Myron's article, it appears to
me that a well-used wading belt and a good serrated knife to slice
open the legs of your waders (Peter C carries one) would be highly
useful.


Wolfgang June 12th, 2006 03:07 AM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

wrote:
Scott Seidman wrote:

......The more I think about it, the more I think some sort of PFD is a good
idea. ....


A PFD isn't a bad idea, but based on Myron's article, it appears to
me that a well-used wading belt and a good serrated knife to slice
open the legs of your waders (Peter C carries one) would be highly
useful.


Agreed. On the other hand, spandex tights make the whole waders,
wading belt, knife thingy moot. :)

Wolfgang
who has never really relished that whole slashing with a sharp
implement in the groinal area scenario all that much anyway. :(


[email protected] June 12th, 2006 05:43 AM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

Wolfgang wrote:
........
Wolfgang
who has never really relished that whole slashing with a sharp
implement in the groinal area scenario all that much anyway. :(


A dead male vs live eunuch decision, eh ?


Scott Seidman June 12th, 2006 03:28 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 
" wrote in
ps.com:


Scott Seidman wrote:

......The more I think about it, the more I think some sort of PFD is
a good idea. ....


A PFD isn't a bad idea, but based on Myron's article, it appears to
me that a well-used wading belt and a good serrated knife to slice
open the legs of your waders (Peter C carries one) would be highly
useful.



I always carry a knife, just in case I need to cut myself out of my waders
or a tangled flyline or something. However, a good PFD would save my life
even if I were unconcious, or too cramped to use the knife, or any such
emergency situation. Even in a raw panic, the PFD could help me if I
couldn't help myself.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Wolfgang June 12th, 2006 04:14 PM

Fisherman dies in Junction Pool
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Wolfgang wrote:
........
Wolfgang
who has never really relished that whole slashing with a sharp
implement in the groinal area scenario all that much anyway. :(


A dead male vs live eunuch decision, eh ?


You left out the part where the issue was mooted. :)

Wolfgang




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