| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar
on ROFF: This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see it? I spent a few hours last night reading through the origins of the recent food-fight here, and getting a sense of the bigger picture. Its not worth going into too many details without starting a hopeless Israeli-Arab "He started it" endless debate, but I think I can safely say that this entire thing HAS started, has evolved, and now has wings of its own, and is pretty much decimating the environment here. There are far too many things out of whack from this for a simple unraveling of facts to solve, but there is a pretty clear trend of events that is important. Back in the 'Catch and Release' thread, shortly after several folks on ROFF (Ken included) gave Mike good wishes for his schoolboy elatedness at his new love affair, Mike posted some very distasteful and (to us Ummericans, anyway) politically incorrect and emotionally- charged opinions about gays. Ken, true to form and true to his morals, came out clearly against it, and in the bumbling spar-and-parry that ensued, both sides dug in deeper until pretty much open warfare was declared, but in a pseudo-detente. After that, several periods of relative calm ensued, but on several occasions, Mike or Ken baited the other, either deliberately or in self-depreciating jest, which almost invariably caused the catfight warfare to pick up where it left off. Until we get to now, where it is gloves-off, no holds barred, monothematic, and far too many offenses on all sides and far too many toes stepped on for anyone to claim that they still have clean hands. Its a barroom brawl, the bar is getting all busted up. Who cares at this point how it started or what they are fighting about. The solution has got to come from someone taking the moral high ground, and walking away from it. Boom, just like that; drop it and don't take the bait any more. No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong." Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means; the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter. So here's the chance for one of you to grab the golden ring, win the argument by winning the 'this whole thing has grown beyond stupid, and I'll be the first to recognize that we're engaging in repeating behaviors that keep producing the same outcome, and I'll step off this train first." So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win' this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable. --riverman |
Rethinking it all again, again...
riverman wrote:
....... No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong." Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means; the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter. It must have occurred to you that for at least one of the protagonists, ruining roff might in fact *be* the objective. - JR |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 9:02 am, "riverman" wrote:
So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win' this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable. --riverman There never was anything to win, and there never will be.Except perhaps, as somebody else pointed out, possible friends, which is now extremely unlikely, as the present climate here makes that quite impossible. But there was always something to lose. I can understand and sympathise with your words here, I once thought in a similar fashion, but I have no intention of conceding anything whatsoever to people of such a nature. It may be only words to some, or cheap entertainment, and ignorable, it is not for me. As far as I am concerned those words were and are designed to do me harm. Several other contributors have made no bones about supporting such outrageous behaviour, and indeed attacking me as well. You may appeal to them if you wish, but it will probably be quite hopeless, as in order for such an appeal to have any effect those appealed too must have some sense of decency, and they have not. Might I also point out that I have nothing at all to lose. This group is less than worthless to me, and it is quite impossible for anybody on here to damage or insult me any further. The reverse is not the case. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 9:24 am, JR wrote:
It must have occurred to you that for at least one of the protagonists, ruining roff might in fact *be* the objective. - JR How remarkably perceptive. Attrition invariably succeeds even when the opponent is aware of the strategy. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 10:37 am, Jan Mikkelsen wrote:
Hi Mike If this indeed is the case why do you keep hanging on here then? I hope that your presence here is indicating that you actually find ROFF useful to some extent? whatsoever to people of such a nature. It may be only words to some, or cheap entertainment, and ignorable, it is not for me. I appreciate your thoughts here. If everyone would live according to those words we would likely see less ignorants around here and one usenet in general for that matter. Seems as if many a newsgroup has been killed by people using this media as a way to engage in no-risk fights on words. I bet that they are the same wimpish people that never say the tinnies of 'ips' when they are in face-to-face situations. /Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die" No, I no longer find it useful, or even remotely enjoyable. Even when I posted fishing oriented material, it merely resulted in insults and slurs. I think it would be a good thing if it died, as that would take away the platform that some people are using to wilfully abuse others. They would not be allowed to post in other places, and that would effectively prevent many other people from being abused. There are plenty of very good angling sites on the net now, so it would be no great loss information-wise. Many people have already left, as they donīt wish to participate in a forum of this nature. Few will join, as a result of what they see happening here, and so the demise is accelerating all the time. The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise in any way I can. Just as there is nothing I can do about the abuse and insults, there is nothing they can do about my posting. People who donīt like it, only have one sensible option, apart from ignoring a lot of stuff, and that is to leave. The natural tendency of most people is to take the line of least resistance. Even those who have not engaged in any of this nonsense, and are basically indifferent to it, will eventually become so sick of it that they will simply leave. Having to wade through all this crap, or killfile most of the group, in the vague hope of finding something useful or pleasant, is not something most sensible people are prepared to do. The ability to insult and abuse people with impunity is a two edged sword. TL MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
riverman wrote:
An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: snip You've written a fair-minded and clearly heartfelt synopsis of an insane situation. The only nit I would pick is that His Loony Mikeness has never posted a single self-deprecating word here that I've ever read. You're ****ing into the wind though, you know. When His Loony Mikeness created the gaggle of sockpuppets he went way beyond sane and reasonable and crossed the line into psychosis. You cannot reason with a madman. His Loony Mikeness has embarrassed himself here irreparably and his insane ego demands that he continue his lunatic attempts to render this forum useless for everyone. He has stated as much on several occasions and his recent flurry of posting confirms his intentions. I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then. -- Ken Fortenberry |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 1:33 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: riverman wrote: An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: snip You've written a fair-minded and clearly heartfelt synopsis of an insane situation. The only nit I would pick is that His Loony Mikeness has never posted a single self-deprecating word here that I've ever read. You're ****ing into the wind though, you know. When His Loony Mikeness created the gaggle of sockpuppets he went way beyond sane and reasonable and crossed the line into psychosis. You cannot reason with a madman. His Loony Mikeness has embarrassed himself here irreparably and his insane ego demands that he continue his lunatic attempts to render this forum useless for everyone. He has stated as much on several occasions and his recent flurry of posting confirms his intentions. I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then. -- Ken Fortenberry Whatīs the matter dumbo, is your nappy leaking as well? You wont ignore what I post, because you are simply incapable of doing so. You are an obnoxious sociopath with no honour, no decency, and **** for brains. This forum is already pretty useless, not least as a result of your efforts. You wont stop being an asshole, it is your nature. Seems you had a fine old time poking me, well now I am going to poke you. Lets see how you react shall we? I would not advise anybody to bet on you keeping your mealy mouth shut for long. Have a nice day MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 1:48 pm, wrote:
I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then. -- Ken Fortenberry Whatīs the matter dumbo, is your nappy leaking as well? You wont ignore what I post, because you are simply incapable of doing so. You are an obnoxious sociopath with no honour, no decency, and **** for brains. This forum is already pretty useless, not least as a result of your efforts. You wont stop being an asshole, it is your nature. Seems you had a fine old time poking me, well now I am going to poke you. Lets see how you react shall we? I would not advise anybody to bet on you keeping your mealy mouth shut for long. Have a nice day MC By the way, I still donīt like queers, but that is completely insignificant compared to the deep seated revulsion and disgust I have for you and dickie boy. So, you cowardly repulsive piece of dishonourable ****, what are you going to do about it? MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 2:18 pm, Scott Seidman wrote:
wrote in news:1176370200.579014.314410 @d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise in any way I can. Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Indeed? That is a very interesting observation. What is your opinion on people who call others nazi homos, or a variety of other choice epithets? Nice guys? Pillars of society? Shining lights for youthful fly-anglers? Paragons of virtue? I have already been called a creep several times, it is boring. If you canīt think of something new to help with the circus then I rather fear your input is superfluous. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On 12 Apr 2007 00:02:01 -0700, "riverman" wrote:
An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see it? I spent a few hours last night reading through the origins of the recent food-fight here, and getting a sense of the bigger picture. Its not worth going into too many details without starting a hopeless Israeli-Arab "He started it" endless debate, but I think I can safely say that this entire thing HAS started, has evolved, and now has wings of its own, and is pretty much decimating the environment here. There are far too many things out of whack from this for a simple unraveling of facts to solve, but there is a pretty clear trend of events that is important. Back in the 'Catch and Release' thread, shortly after several folks on ROFF (Ken included) gave Mike good wishes for his schoolboy elatedness at his new love affair, Mike posted some very distasteful and (to us Ummericans, anyway) politically incorrect and emotionally- charged opinions about gays. Ken, true to form and true to his morals, came out clearly against it, and in the bumbling spar-and-parry that ensued, both sides dug in deeper until pretty much open warfare was declared, but in a pseudo-detente. After that, several periods of relative calm ensued, but on several occasions, Mike or Ken baited the other, either deliberately or in self-depreciating jest, which almost invariably caused the catfight warfare to pick up where it left off. Until we get to now, where it is gloves-off, no holds barred, monothematic, and far too many offenses on all sides and far too many toes stepped on for anyone to claim that they still have clean hands. Its a barroom brawl, the bar is getting all busted up. Who cares at this point how it started or what they are fighting about. The solution has got to come from someone taking the moral high ground, and walking away from it. Boom, just like that; drop it and don't take the bait any more. No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong." Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means; the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter. So here's the chance for one of you to grab the golden ring, win the argument by winning the 'this whole thing has grown beyond stupid, and I'll be the first to recognize that we're engaging in repeating behaviors that keep producing the same outcome, and I'll step off this train first." So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win' this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable. You're fairly new around here. This "war" _is_ ROFF, except it isn't a "war." You're absolutely right about no one being able to "win" it, but it's because there's nothing to "win." "Mike Connor" has been acting like this since he showed up. And there is no "moral high ground" on ROFF because there is no "moral ground" at all - it's just a newsgroup. But here's the funny part - no one can "kill" it, ruin it, or otherwise damage it because there's nothing actually tangible to kill, ruin, or damage. And here's the cool part - it's an _absolute_ democracy of sorts - no one has any absolute "superiority." Darned near anyone can start out and remain as able to participate as any other (or simply and abruptly walk away), and regardless of the actions of any one person, I suspect there will be, more or less, just as many folks participating in ROFF in 5 years as there were 5 years ago. As an aside, but in a related vein, I've never quite understood those who seem to have a real problem with folks acting different in real life than they are "on ROFF," if that's what they choose to do. Heck, it's always admitted and acknowledged, right in the complaint, that ROFF isn't "real life" - no one ever complains that Joe Blow acts differently on whatever other online forum/NG than they do on ROFF, it's always "different in _real life_." And you're not the first to make a plea for peace, and you'll likely not be the last. But don't feel bad - they all get just as generally ignored as yours will be. If you want what you think is, well, "good order," then maybe you ought to set up your own forum with rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. I can see no reason why the "traffic" there would be any better than the "traffic" at the myriad other "controlled" forums all over the 'net. As for me, I know we're not solving world problems here - it's mostly entertainment with an occasional serious bit, but I'd rather be one of the ****bag dumbo pigs and having a good ol' time laughing with, at, and about you, myself, and the rest of the voluntary inmates than I would over on some tight-assed forum with a few dip****s congratulating themselves on how superior they are. Maybe it'll help, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure it, too, won't change a whole lot...which is the way it's supposed to be... TC, R --riverman |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On 12 Apr 2007 12:18:56 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote: wrote in news:1176370200.579014.314410 : The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise in any way I can. Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that. Naw, it would make just as impotent here as he is everywhere else, including his own little life...just a sad little nappy-headed Nazi homo ho... TC, R |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 2:33 pm, wrote:
On 12 Apr 2007 00:02:01 -0700, "riverman" wrote: An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see it? I spent a few hours last night reading through the origins of the recent food-fight here, and getting a sense of the bigger picture. Its not worth going into too many details without starting a hopeless Israeli-Arab "He started it" endless debate, but I think I can safely say that this entire thing HAS started, has evolved, and now has wings of its own, and is pretty much decimating the environment here. There are far too many things out of whack from this for a simple unraveling of facts to solve, but there is a pretty clear trend of events that is important. Back in the 'Catch and Release' thread, shortly after several folks on ROFF (Ken included) gave Mike good wishes for his schoolboy elatedness at his new love affair, Mike posted some very distasteful and (to us Ummericans, anyway) politically incorrect and emotionally- charged opinions about gays. Ken, true to form and true to his morals, came out clearly against it, and in the bumbling spar-and-parry that ensued, both sides dug in deeper until pretty much open warfare was declared, but in a pseudo-detente. After that, several periods of relative calm ensued, but on several occasions, Mike or Ken baited the other, either deliberately or in self-depreciating jest, which almost invariably caused the catfight warfare to pick up where it left off. Until we get to now, where it is gloves-off, no holds barred, monothematic, and far too many offenses on all sides and far too many toes stepped on for anyone to claim that they still have clean hands. Its a barroom brawl, the bar is getting all busted up. Who cares at this point how it started or what they are fighting about. The solution has got to come from someone taking the moral high ground, and walking away from it. Boom, just like that; drop it and don't take the bait any more. No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong." Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means; the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter. So here's the chance for one of you to grab the golden ring, win the argument by winning the 'this whole thing has grown beyond stupid, and I'll be the first to recognize that we're engaging in repeating behaviors that keep producing the same outcome, and I'll step off this train first." So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win' this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable. You're fairly new around here. This "war" _is_ ROFF, except it isn't a "war." You're absolutely right about no one being able to "win" it, but it's because there's nothing to "win." "Mike Connor" has been acting like this since he showed up. And there is no "moral high ground" on ROFF because there is no "moral ground" at all - it's just a newsgroup. But here's the funny part - no one can "kill" it, ruin it, or otherwise damage it because there's nothing actually tangible to kill, ruin, or damage. And here's the cool part - it's an _absolute_ democracy of sorts - no one has any absolute "superiority." Darned near anyone can start out and remain as able to participate as any other (or simply and abruptly walk away), and regardless of the actions of any one person, I suspect there will be, more or less, just as many folks participating in ROFF in 5 years as there were 5 years ago. As an aside, but in a related vein, I've never quite understood those who seem to have a real problem with folks acting different in real life than they are "on ROFF," if that's what they choose to do. Heck, it's always admitted and acknowledged, right in the complaint, that ROFF isn't "real life" - no one ever complains that Joe Blow acts differently on whatever other online forum/NG than they do on ROFF, it's always "different in _real life_." And you're not the first to make a plea for peace, and you'll likely not be the last. But don't feel bad - they all get just as generally ignored as yours will be. If you want what you think is, well, "good order," then maybe you ought to set up your own forum with rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. I can see no reason why the "traffic" there would be any better than the "traffic" at the myriad other "controlled" forums all over the 'net. As for me, I know we're not solving world problems here - it's mostly entertainment with an occasional serious bit, but I'd rather be one of the ****bag dumbo pigs and having a good ol' time laughing with, at, and about you, myself, and the rest of the voluntary inmates than I would over on some tight-assed forum with a few dip****s congratulating themselves on how superior they are. Maybe it'll help, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure it, too, won't change a whole lot...which is the way it's supposed to be... TC, R --riverman Time for a nappy change dumbo, your **** is overflowing. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 2:40 pm, wrote:
On 12 Apr 2007 12:18:56 GMT, Scott Seidman wrote: wrote in news:1176370200.579014.314410 : The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise in any way I can. Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that. Naw, it would make just as impotent here as he is everywhere else, including his own little life...just a sad little nappy-headed Nazi homo ho... TC, R I wonder how sad that makes someone who goes around calling people sad little nappy-headed nazi homos? You are a piece of filth. The only reason you stay here is that here you can get away with being a piece of filth. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 2:33 pm, wrote:
On 12 Apr 2007 00:02:01 -0700, "riverman" wrote: An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see it? I spent a few hours last night reading through the origins of the recent food-fight here, and getting a sense of the bigger picture. Its not worth going into too many details without starting a hopeless Israeli-Arab "He started it" endless debate, but I think I can safely say that this entire thing HAS started, has evolved, and now has wings of its own, and is pretty much decimating the environment here. There are far too many things out of whack from this for a simple unraveling of facts to solve, but there is a pretty clear trend of events that is important. Back in the 'Catch and Release' thread, shortly after several folks on ROFF (Ken included) gave Mike good wishes for his schoolboy elatedness at his new love affair, Mike posted some very distasteful and (to us Ummericans, anyway) politically incorrect and emotionally- charged opinions about gays. Ken, true to form and true to his morals, came out clearly against it, and in the bumbling spar-and-parry that ensued, both sides dug in deeper until pretty much open warfare was declared, but in a pseudo-detente. After that, several periods of relative calm ensued, but on several occasions, Mike or Ken baited the other, either deliberately or in self-depreciating jest, which almost invariably caused the catfight warfare to pick up where it left off. Until we get to now, where it is gloves-off, no holds barred, monothematic, and far too many offenses on all sides and far too many toes stepped on for anyone to claim that they still have clean hands. Its a barroom brawl, the bar is getting all busted up. Who cares at this point how it started or what they are fighting about. The solution has got to come from someone taking the moral high ground, and walking away from it. Boom, just like that; drop it and don't take the bait any more. No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong." Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means; the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter. So here's the chance for one of you to grab the golden ring, win the argument by winning the 'this whole thing has grown beyond stupid, and I'll be the first to recognize that we're engaging in repeating behaviors that keep producing the same outcome, and I'll step off this train first." So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win' this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable. You're fairly new around here. This "war" _is_ ROFF, except it isn't a "war." You're absolutely right about no one being able to "win" it, but it's because there's nothing to "win." "Mike Connor" has been acting like this since he showed up. And there is no "moral high ground" on ROFF because there is no "moral ground" at all - it's just a newsgroup. But here's the funny part - no one can "kill" it, ruin it, or otherwise damage it because there's nothing actually tangible to kill, ruin, or damage. And here's the cool part - it's an _absolute_ democracy of sorts - no one has any absolute "superiority." Darned near anyone can start out and remain as able to participate as any other (or simply and abruptly walk away), and regardless of the actions of any one person, I suspect there will be, more or less, just as many folks participating in ROFF in 5 years as there were 5 years ago. As an aside, but in a related vein, I've never quite understood those who seem to have a real problem with folks acting different in real life than they are "on ROFF," if that's what they choose to do. Heck, it's always admitted and acknowledged, right in the complaint, that ROFF isn't "real life" - no one ever complains that Joe Blow acts differently on whatever other online forum/NG than they do on ROFF, it's always "different in _real life_." And you're not the first to make a plea for peace, and you'll likely not be the last. But don't feel bad - they all get just as generally ignored as yours will be. If you want what you think is, well, "good order," then maybe you ought to set up your own forum with rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. I can see no reason why the "traffic" there would be any better than the "traffic" at the myriad other "controlled" forums all over the 'net. As for me, I know we're not solving world problems here - it's mostly entertainment with an occasional serious bit, but I'd rather be one of the ****bag dumbo pigs and having a good ol' time laughing with, at, and about you, myself, and the rest of the voluntary inmates than I would over on some tight-assed forum with a few dip****s congratulating themselves on how superior they are. Maybe it'll help, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure it, too, won't change a whole lot...which is the way it's supposed to be... TC, R You apparently donīt know what democracy is either. Hardly surprising. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 3:09 pm, Scott Seidman wrote:
wrote in news:1176380869.916237.321610 @n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: On Apr 12, 2:18 pm, Scott Seidman wrote: wrote in news:1176370200.579014.314410 @d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise in any way I can. Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Indeed? That is a very interesting observation. What is your opinion on people who call others nazi homos, or a variety of other choice epithets? Nice guys? Pillars of society? Shining lights for youthful fly-anglers? Paragons of virtue? I have already been called a creep several times, it is boring. If you canīt think of something new to help with the circus then I rather fear your input is superfluous. MC Mike, Based on a person's behavior, I draw my opinions. Just because I don't spend my time here spouting off my opinion of others does not mean I do not have opinions of them. That said, I don't need you to tell me what those opinions are, or to whom I should state them. Your apparent assumption that I need your guidance in such matters is central to your arrogance problem. Should the behavior of others start interfering with my fair use of this board, as is your stated creepy goal (once again, "if I can't enjoy it, nobody will", a goal a petulant five year old would be proud to pursue), I will let them know, in no uncertain terms. Further, I wasn't necessarily calling you a name. I was telling you what I think of you. There is a difference. Illustratively, I can't believe anyone reading roff could conceivably believe you are a "nappy-headed nazi homo", which you have been called numerous times. Many, however, would glady second "creep". You're on a tear George Gherke himself would be proud of. I suspect he's looking down on all this right now, snickering about how right he was about you. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Here, the word "creep" is simply a general insult. I assumed nothing at all, I merely asked a few questions. It seems my ideas of honour and fairness differ very considerably from others on this group. I owe you no explanations, nor do I owe anybody else any. I will continue to pursue my aims as long as I consider it politic to do so. Since I don īt believe in anything at all, much less a saintly Gehrke looking down from somewhere, I must perforce undertake my own endeavours in defending myself against those who would malign me. What you write is of passing interest, but it gets me no nearer to my target. What you believe is also irrelevant. It is not a case of "if I can't enjoy it, nobody will", it is a case of doing my absolute utmost to ensure that these people can not continue to malign me, here or elsewhere, and preferably to ensure that they donīt do it to anybody else either. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
Jan Mikkelsen wrote:
... /Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die" No need to worry about that, roff isn't going anywhere. Those who imagine they can disrupt roff with foul-mouthed invective and vitriol are deluding themselves. Their only accomplishment will be an irreparably damaged reputation here and a permanent Google record of their foolishness. So, if watching the pompous self-destruct before your eyes is as enjoyable for you as it is for me just sit back and enjoy the show. If not, put the loon in a killfile. -- Ken Fortenberry P.S. to Joe F., I *told* you the "diaper insult" was gonna be the next big thing. Do I know my loonies or what ? ;-) |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On 12 Apr 2007 13:09:09 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote: wrote in news:1176380869.916237.321610 : On Apr 12, 2:18 pm, Scott Seidman wrote: wrote in news:1176370200.579014.314410 @d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise in any way I can. Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that. -- Scott Reverse name to reply Indeed? That is a very interesting observation. What is your opinion on people who call others nazi homos, or a variety of other choice epithets? Nice guys? Pillars of society? Shining lights for youthful fly-anglers? Paragons of virtue? I have already been called a creep several times, it is boring. If you canīt think of something new to help with the circus then I rather fear your input is superfluous. MC Mike, Based on a person's behavior, I draw my opinions. Just because I don't spend my time here spouting off my opinion of others does not mean I do not have opinions of them. That said, I don't need you to tell me what those opinions are, or to whom I should state them. Your apparent assumption that I need your guidance in such matters is central to your arrogance problem. Should the behavior of others start interfering with my fair use of this board, as is your stated creepy goal (once again, "if I can't enjoy it, nobody will", a goal a petulant five year old would be proud to pursue), I will let them know, in no uncertain terms. Further, I wasn't necessarily calling you a name. I was telling you what I think of you. There is a difference. Illustratively, I can't believe anyone reading roff could conceivably believe you are a "nappy-headed nazi homo", which you have been called numerous times. Many, however, would glady second "creep". You're on a tear George Gherke himself would be proud of. I suspect he's looking down on all this right now, snickering about how right he was about you. Heck, even I don't actually believe he's _actually_ a nappy-headed Nazi homo ho...I mean, who would actually pay HIM for sex... HTH, R...er, Dickie |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 3:25 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: Jan Mikkelsen wrote: ... /Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die" No need to worry about that, roff isn't going anywhere. Those who imagine they can disrupt roff with foul-mouthed invective and vitriol are deluding themselves. Their only accomplishment will be an irreparably damaged reputation here and a permanent Google record of their foolishness. So, if watching the pompous self-destruct before your eyes is as enjoyable for you as it is for me just sit back and enjoy the show. If not, put the loon in a killfile. -- Ken Fortenberry P.S. to Joe F., I *told* you the "diaper insult" was gonna be the next big thing. Do I know my loonies or what ? ;-) You keep going on about foul mouthed invective, but you are the main user of such. You are a despicable piece of filth. I am not imagining anything at all. ROFF is being disrupted, up to now, largely by you. You and your nappy mate have done your level best to ruin my reputation, and you have accomplished that to a degree here, with your endless flow of propaganda prattle, but you canīt do anything about it anywhere else. You would not even dare to attempt it, because you are a cowardly piece of ****, who can only snipe from known safety. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
P.S. to Joe F., I *told* you the "diaper insult" was gonna be the next big thing. Gotta give you that one. My guess was the overuse of the nickname for Richard. That one had real potential. :-) Joe F. |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:45:09 GMT, "rb608"
wrote: "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message P.S. to Joe F., I *told* you the "diaper insult" was gonna be the next big thing. Gotta give you that one. My guess was the overuse of the nickname for Richard. That one had real potential. :-) Naw, he never insults anyone personally... TC, R, er, Dickie Joe F. |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 3:58 pm, wrote:
On 12 Apr 2007 06:39:22 -0700, wrote: On Apr 12, 3:25 pm, Ken Fortenberry wrote: Jan Mikkelsen wrote: ... /Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die" No need to worry about that, roff isn't going anywhere. Those who imagine they can disrupt roff with foul-mouthed invective and vitriol are deluding themselves. Their only accomplishment will be an irreparably damaged reputation here and a permanent Google record of their foolishness. So, if watching the pompous self-destruct before your eyes is as enjoyable for you as it is for me just sit back and enjoy the show. If not, put the loon in a killfile. -- Ken Fortenberry P.S. to Joe F., I *told* you the "diaper insult" was gonna be the next big thing. Do I know my loonies or what ? ;-) You keep going on about foul mouthed invective, but you are the main user of such. You are a despicable piece of filth. I am not imagining anything at all. ROFF is being disrupted, up to now, largely by you. You and your nappy mate have done your level best to ruin my reputation, and you have accomplished that to a degree here, with your endless flow of propaganda prattle, but you canīt do anything about it anywhere else. You would not even dare to attempt it, because you are a cowardly piece of ****, who can only snipe from known safety. And here's a little bit of info for you: I don't care one bit about your reputation, imagined or real, here or anywhere else. IAC, I could no more "damage" it than you can "damage" mine or "damage" a NG, ROFF or any other. You're not even a "real" person. All you are is a source of inspiration for shtick, and you've done that to "yourself." I don't wish you ill, good fortune, or anything else; you're just a name on a post. You're not real enough to be a friend and you'll never be important enough to be an enemy. It probably oughta help, but it probably won't, R ...but do carry on... Contemptible behaviour, from a contemptible little ****bag. Your yiddish is also abysmal. Hope LaCourse is paying attention here, so he knows exactly how you consider and treat people. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 4:01 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:45:09 GMT, "rb608" wrote: "Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message P.S. to Joe F., I *told* you the "diaper insult" was gonna be the next big thing. Gotta give you that one. My guess was the overuse of the nickname for Richard. That one had real potential. :-) Naw, he never insults anyone personally... TC, R, er, Dickie Joe F. You are not real enough to insult personally dickie boy, you are a very good caricature of a filthy degenerate pig. I told you I would watch you pull the rug out from under your own feet, and I will. Not even the dumbos like being held in such contempt. Hell it gets them upset when one points out their failings in English. I have no doubt some are beginning to harbour feelings of dislike for you, real or not. The effect will be the same. MC |
Rethinking it all again, again...
"Jan Mikkelsen" wrote in message ... /Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die" You may set your mind at ease, Jan.....the much anticipated death of ROFF simply isn't going to happen. The only thing that COULD make it happen is for all those who wring their hands and rend their clothing in despair over the dreadful conditions here to have their wish come true. Enthusiasm for a beloved avocation like fly fishing is understandable (and even admirable.....at least for those of us who share that enthusiasm and have reason to find it defensible) but the activity, for all its complexity and lifelong value to participants, is too cramped and narrowly focused to sustain a vibrant community discussion through eternity. The ideal ROFF that many envision is a lot like the classic picture of the Christian heaven.....nice climate, and you don't have to worry about mosquitoes.....but a couple of eons of singing hosannas would find the vast majority bolting for the nearest exit and jostling for space on the first commuter train to hell. Those few who missed the last train would then settle down to an interminable polite discussion about the true nature of God (otherwise known as "the best knot for attaching leader to fly line") until the sponsors decided that "HeavenŪ" was no longer a viable commodity and closed it down due to lack of interest, leaving the last few holdouts to ruminate that having an immortal soul isn't quite as peachy as the advertising brochures made it look. They would then spend the rest of eternity (a much longer time than most people suppose) wandering from one moderate forum to another, searching for yet another opinion on the best floatant, and leaving each as they successively went tits up, all the while wearing large stinking birds suspended from thongs around their necks. But, if wishes were fishes...... Or, as friends down south back in the day used to say, "Wish in one hand and **** in the other......see which fills up faster." Meanwhile, ROFF plods on. The imminent demise predicted by so many for so long has failed to materialize, and all the evidence used in support of this hoary perennial millennial prognostication is nothing more than chimerical crap. Take, for example, "Salmobyte's" recent revelation that traffic in ROFF is down by 80% from some halcyon (though unspecified) golden age. By my (admittedly rough) count, there were about 165 new threads (5 and change per day, on average) begun in this newsgroup in March of this year and, according to Google: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.o...hing.fly/about there were 1900 (61 per day)individual messages. If this represents just 20% (100-80) of the usual, then it follows that there used to be 825 (5 x 20%) new threads each month (27 per day) and 9500 individual messages (306 per day). Looking at the chart displayed at the above address, I have failed to find anything that supports those numbers.....or anything approaching them......but then, it only goes back as far as mid 1994. Maybe the good old days were earlier. Anyway, the heaviest traffic I could find was in January of 2002, with 6375 messages. I'm content to leave judgments about relative content, tone, worth, etc., between then and now as an exercise for anyone who may be interested. As for the current crisis........YAWN! Again, I think a single example should suffice to typify the whole. So, Mike is gonna be the destroyer of ROFF, huh? Well, this is every bit as ambitious an enterprise as his former bid to be its raison d'etre, and there is ample reason to be certain that it will be every bit as successful. O.k., but at least he is completely justified in his feelings (if not necessarily his proposed solution) about what he has been subjected to here in the last year or two.....right? No. He has, as he well knows, brought this upon himself. Yeah, in a sense, because he has no control over how others react to his eminently helpful, logical, and indisputable advice......right? Wrong. He has brought this upon himself DELIBERATELY, and for the same reasons as the rest of the entirely self-conscious gaggle of disruptive morons here......or we are left to suppose that he (and they) are actually so stupid as to be completely mystified by the rudiments of cause and effect. Anyone who, at this late date, still believes that Mike is getting anything other than exactly what he wants from this group NEEDS to find a place where he or she can be told what to read, what to write, what to think, and what to believe. Meanwhile, ROFF plods on. Where they exist (and, as pretty much everyone knows, their distribution is virtually worldwide) pests like mosquitoes (or stevies, kennies, mikies, davies.....and dicklets) are a fact of life that people simply have to deal with one way or another. Wishing them out of existence will never work. In fact, getting worked up into a lather and loudly cursing the gods raises both body surface temperature and carbon dioxide exhalation, both of which serve as beacons for mosquitoes and increase their activity. Likewise, the humunculoid pests in Usenet operate on precisely the same principle. Even perfectly reasonable declamations on the sadness of the whole sorry mess serve (as has been, and will continue to be, demonstrated yet again in this thread) merely serve to fan the flames....it is EXACTLY what they want. Returning to the minuscule winged annoyances, the only effective way to deal with them on an individual basis is to swat them whenever they come within range, and keep swatting as long as they continue to appear. The trouble with metaphors, of course, is that they are models, and a model is, by definition, lacking in one or more of the essential features of that which is modeled. One can metaphorically swat Usenet pests (and one certainly shouldn't miss any opportunity to do so) but they don't die. Alternatively (or in combination), one can (and, again, certainly should) see them for what they truly are.....self-made toys.....and deal with them accordingly. They hate it. Eventually they will pretend (however briefly and unconvincingly) that you don't exist until the irresistible urge overtakes them again and they present themselves for another swatting. Bottom line: Life presents many intractable problems that will consume as much of a person as he or she will allow. Everyone should take time out to play with the ****-weasels. It makes the world a better place.......and keeps ROFF alive, vital, and interesting. :) Wolfgang |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
riverman typed:
An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see it? Maybe - just perhaps - if people just quit posting these "Rethinking" posts, it would just go away and die its natural death. But, hey, whaddaiknow? -- TL, Tim who never rethinks, and is pretty much a novice to thinking in general. ------------------------- http://css.sbcma.com/timj |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On 12-Apr-2007, Scott Seidman wrote: Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that. -- Scott Reverse name to reply That is exactly what I have said several times on this list I even called hiim a "fat creep" Fred |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 10:30 pm, "Tim J."
wrote: riverman typed: An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar on ROFF: This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see it? Maybe - just perhaps - if people just quit posting these "Rethinking" posts, it would just go away and die its natural death. But, hey, whaddaiknow? -- TL, Tim who never rethinks, and is pretty much a novice to thinking in general. -------------------------http://css.sbcma.com/timj Hmm, but yet here you are, posting to a rethinking post. :-) --riverman That was my one post on this subject since its gone nulyoular and my this is my last. Against all my morals, I am going to have to kill- file a friend of mine, because I cannot support where he has gone. Another newsgroup had a similar flame war, and the regulars used to change the subject headings so that folks could filter threads easier, not only to avoid posts by the perpetrators, but even discussions about it. I suggest we do the same here. |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On 12-Apr-2007, Ken Fortenberry wrote: You're ****ing into the wind though, you know. When His Loony Mikeness created the gaggle of sockpuppets he went way beyond sane and reasonable and crossed the line into psychosis. You cannot reason with a madman. His Loony Mikeness has embarrassed himself here irreparably and his insane ego demands that he continue his lunatic attempts to render this forum useless for everyone. He has stated as much on several occasions and his recent flurry of posting confirms his intentions. I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then. -- Ken Fortenberry You are not all there either buddy! You obviously like to provoke him and other people In other words You are a bit of a ****tard yourself Fred |
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Apr 12, 12:24 am, JR wrote:
riverman wrote: ....... No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong." Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means; the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter. It must have occurred to you that for at least one of the protagonists, ruining roff might in fact *be* the objective. - JR Might? I thought that was his stated objective? We've seen worse, the little I see is so sad it's humorous. - Ken |
it all again, again...
"riverman" wrote in message
Against all my morals, I am going to have to kill- file a friend of mine, because I cannot support where he has gone. Please don't kill file me, I'll change. Really. :-) Honestly, it's a tough spot. Having met quite a few of these reprobates, interacted with others here for nigh on a decade, and forged these virtual friendships, it's disheartening to see someone behave contrary to what we thought we knew of them. Joe F. |
Rethinking it all again, again...
Dave LaCourse wrote:
... You care about your internet reputation, obviously, but Fortenberry and Richard do not care about theirs. ... You know Louie, somebody who goes out on a date with a goat named Mildred has no business talking about the reputations of others. ;-) -- Ken Fortenberry |
Rethinking it all again, again...
|
Rethinking it all again, again...
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:39:22 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote: You know Louie, somebody who goes out on a date with a goat named Mildred has no business talking about the reputations of others. ;-) roflmao. Correct you are. Mildred's husband died just before Christmas. When Joanne and I were in Georgia last month, we stopped by to see her in Franklin, NC. She is still just as lovely as she was 50 years ago when I was engaged to her. We had a nice visit. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:50 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Đ2004 - 2006 FishingBanter