Rethinking it all again, again...

An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar
on ROFF:

This is getting nuts. Someone GROW UP for gods sake. There's an easy
opportunity to win this unwinnable war. Who will be the first to see
it?

I spent a few hours last night reading through the origins of the
recent food-fight here, and getting a sense of the bigger picture. Its
not worth going into too many details without starting a hopeless
Israeli-Arab "He started it" endless debate, but I think I can safely
say that this entire thing HAS started, has evolved, and now has wings
of its own, and is pretty much decimating the environment here. There
are far too many things out of whack from this for a simple unraveling
of facts to solve, but there is a pretty clear trend of events that is
important.

Back in the 'Catch and Release' thread, shortly after several folks
on ROFF (Ken included) gave Mike good wishes for his schoolboy
elatedness at his new love affair, Mike posted some very distasteful
and (to us Ummericans, anyway) politically incorrect and emotionally-
charged opinions about gays. Ken, true to form and true to his morals,
came out clearly against it, and in the bumbling spar-and-parry that
ensued, both sides dug in deeper until pretty much open warfare was
declared, but in a pseudo-detente.

After that, several periods of relative calm ensued, but on several
occasions, Mike or Ken baited the other, either deliberately or in
self-depreciating jest, which almost invariably caused the catfight
warfare to pick up where it left off. Until we get to now, where it is
gloves-off, no holds barred, monothematic, and far too many offenses
on all sides and far too many toes stepped on for anyone to claim that
they still have clean hands.

Its a barroom brawl, the bar is getting all busted up. Who cares at
this point how it started or what they are fighting about.

The solution has got to come from someone taking the moral high
ground, and walking away from it. Boom, just like that; drop it and
don't take the bait any more.

No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong."
Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not
about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means;
the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is
ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never
resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter.


So here's the chance for one of you to grab the golden ring, win the
argument by winning the 'this whole thing has grown beyond stupid, and
I'll be the first to recognize that we're engaging in repeating
behaviors that keep producing the same outcome, and I'll step off this
train first."

So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win'
this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable.

--riverman

riverman wrote:

.......
No one can say "well, ____ should do it because they are wrong."
Everyone is wrong, because the wrongness of this whole mess is not
about homophobia, or fighting unjust causes with just or unjust means;
the wrongness of this whole mess is that the gang warfare here is
ruining ROFF for many people; lurkers and old-timers. We will never
resolve the former, we can only resolve the latter.

It must have occurred to you that for at least one of the
protagonists, ruining roff might in fact *be* the objective.

- JR

On Apr 12, 9:02 am, "riverman" wrote:


So who's it going to be. There might not be another chance to 'win'
this, because its gone well beyond being unwinnable.

--riverman

There never was anything to win, and there never will be.Except
perhaps, as somebody else pointed out, possible friends, which is now
extremely unlikely, as the present climate here makes that quite
impossible. But there was always something to lose.

I can understand and sympathise with your words here, I once thought
in a similar fashion, but I have no intention of conceding anything
whatsoever to people of such a nature. It may be only words to some,
or cheap entertainment, and ignorable, it is not for me. As far as I
am concerned those words were and are designed to do me harm. Several
other contributors have made no bones about supporting such outrageous
behaviour, and indeed attacking me as well.

You may appeal to them if you wish, but it will probably be quite
hopeless, as in order for such an appeal to have any effect those
appealed too must have some sense of decency, and they have not.

Might I also point out that I have nothing at all to lose. This group
is less than worthless to me, and it is quite impossible for anybody
on here to damage or insult me any further. The reverse is not the
case.

MC

On Apr 12, 9:24 am, JR wrote:


It must have occurred to you that for at least one of the
protagonists, ruining roff might in fact *be* the objective.

- JR

How remarkably perceptive. Attrition invariably succeeds even when the
opponent is aware of the strategy.

MC

wrote:

Might I also point out that I have nothing at all to lose. This group
is less than worthless to me,

Hi Mike

If this indeed is the case why do you keep hanging on here then?
I hope that your presence here is indicating that you actually find ROFF
useful to some extent?

whatsoever to people of such a nature. It may be only words to some,
or cheap entertainment, and ignorable, it is not for me.

I appreciate your thoughts here. If everyone would live according to
those words we would likely see less ignorants around here and one
usenet in general for that matter. Seems as if many a newsgroup has been
killed by people using this media as a way to engage in no-risk fights
on words. I bet that they are the same wimpish people that never say the
tinnies of 'ips' when they are in face-to-face situations.

/Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die"

On Apr 12, 10:37 am, Jan Mikkelsen wrote:

Hi Mike

If this indeed is the case why do you keep hanging on here then?
I hope that your presence here is indicating that you actually find ROFF
useful to some extent?

whatsoever to people of such a nature. It may be only words to some,
or cheap entertainment, and ignorable, it is not for me.

I appreciate your thoughts here. If everyone would live according to
those words we would likely see less ignorants around here and one
usenet in general for that matter. Seems as if many a newsgroup has been
killed by people using this media as a way to engage in no-risk fights
on words. I bet that they are the same wimpish people that never say the
tinnies of 'ips' when they are in face-to-face situations.

/Jan "One who would hate to see also ROFF die"

No, I no longer find it useful, or even remotely enjoyable. Even when
I posted fishing oriented material, it merely resulted in insults and
slurs.

I think it would be a good thing if it died, as that would take away
the platform that some people are using to wilfully abuse others. They
would not be allowed to post in other places, and that would
effectively prevent many other people from being abused.

There are plenty of very good angling sites on the net now, so it
would be no great loss information-wise.

Many people have already left, as they don´t wish to participate in a
forum of this nature. Few will join, as a result of what they see
happening here, and so the demise is accelerating all the time.

The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise
in any way I can. Just as there is nothing I can do about the abuse
and insults, there is nothing they can do about my posting. People who
don´t like it, only have one sensible option, apart from ignoring a
lot of stuff, and that is to leave.

The natural tendency of most people is to take the line of least
resistance. Even those who have not engaged in any of this nonsense,
and are basically indifferent to it, will eventually become so sick of
it that they will simply leave. Having to wade through all this crap,
or killfile most of the group, in the vague hope of finding something
useful or pleasant, is not something most sensible people are prepared
to do.

The ability to insult and abuse people with impunity is a two edged
sword.

TL
MC

riverman wrote:
An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar
on ROFF:
snip

You've written a fair-minded and clearly heartfelt synopsis
of an insane situation. The only nit I would pick is that
His Loony Mikeness has never posted a single self-deprecating
word here that I've ever read.

You're ****ing into the wind though, you know. When His Loony
Mikeness created the gaggle of sockpuppets he went way beyond
sane and reasonable and crossed the line into psychosis. You
cannot reason with a madman. His Loony Mikeness has embarrassed
himself here irreparably and his insane ego demands that he
continue his lunatic attempts to render this forum useless for
everyone. He has stated as much on several occasions and his
recent flurry of posting confirms his intentions.

I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings
or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Apr 12, 1:33 pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
riverman wrote:
An open letter to the current participants in the interminable uproar
on ROFF:
snip

You've written a fair-minded and clearly heartfelt synopsis
of an insane situation. The only nit I would pick is that
His Loony Mikeness has never posted a single self-deprecating
word here that I've ever read.

You're ****ing into the wind though, you know. When His Loony
Mikeness created the gaggle of sockpuppets he went way beyond
sane and reasonable and crossed the line into psychosis. You
cannot reason with a madman. His Loony Mikeness has embarrassed
himself here irreparably and his insane ego demands that he
continue his lunatic attempts to render this forum useless for
everyone. He has stated as much on several occasions and his
recent flurry of posting confirms his intentions.

I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings
or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then.

--
Ken Fortenberry

What´s the matter dumbo, is your nappy leaking as well? You wont
ignore what I post, because you are simply incapable of doing so. You
are an obnoxious sociopath with no honour, no decency, and **** for
brains. This forum is already pretty useless, not least as a result of
your efforts. You wont stop being an asshole, it is your nature. Seems
you had a fine old time poking me, well now I am going to poke you.
Lets see how you react shall we? I would not advise anybody to bet on
you keeping your mealy mouth shut for long.

Have a nice day

MC

On Apr 12, 1:48 pm, wrote:


I'm afraid nothing can be done except ignore his lunatic rantings
or play a little "poke the silly homophobe" now and then.

--
Ken Fortenberry

What´s the matter dumbo, is your nappy leaking as well? You wont
ignore what I post, because you are simply incapable of doing so. You
are an obnoxious sociopath with no honour, no decency, and **** for
brains. This forum is already pretty useless, not least as a result of
your efforts. You wont stop being an asshole, it is your nature. Seems
you had a fine old time poking me, well now I am going to poke you.
Lets see how you react shall we? I would not advise anybody to bet on
you keeping your mealy mouth shut for long.

Have a nice day

MC

By the way, I still don´t like queers, but that is completely
insignificant compared to the deep seated revulsion and disgust I have
for you and dickie boy. So, you cowardly repulsive piece of
dishonourable ****, what are you going to do about it?

MC

wrote in news:1176370200.579014.314410
@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

The only reason I am hanging on here is to help accelerate that demise
in any way I can.


Mike, that would make you a creep. And a childish creep at that.

--
Scott
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