Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the taper
of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have better
line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted flies with
ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly presentation
wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Nov 26, 3:09 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the taper
of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have better
line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted flies with
ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly presentation
wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?

Just because someone does a stupid thing and then gets it published in
an article does not make it a "right" thing. The taper exists for a
reason and many a fly fishermen gets good line management and tosses
large flies when nymphing. For that matter they sell level running
lines which are often used by Great Lakes Steelheader's which is what
I would suggest one does before they went and cut a perfectly good DT
fly line.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the taper
of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have better
line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted flies with
ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly presentation
wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom



There might be something to it.

Level lines used to be common years ago, mainly, I thought, because they
were cheap. More expensive tapered lines were easier to cast. Maybe you
can manage the line better with a level line. It's possible, but it's
been so long since I've used one that I have no clue.

I don't buy the throwing "large weighted flies with ease" argument.

If you give it a try I'd be interested to know it comes out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"rw" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the
taper of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have
better line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted
flies with ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly
presentation wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

There might be something to it.

Level lines used to be common years ago, mainly, I thought, because they
were cheap. More expensive tapered lines were easier to cast. Maybe you
can manage the line better with a level line. It's possible, but it's been
so long since I've used one that I have no clue.

I don't buy the throwing "large weighted flies with ease" argument.

If you give it a try I'd be interested to know it comes out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Actually I do have a DT line that needs to be reversed, thought
about cutting the taper off the one side and experimenting.

The article is drifting for steelhead in rivers.
For chucking large weighted flies, the anglers makes his own
leaders and starts with a 30" piece of 40 lb test butt section, jointed with
the now taperless line by nailknot. He then adds a 12" piece of 20 lb.
connected with a double uni-knot. Then bloodknots on his long 10 lb.
tippet/tippets depending on the fly or flies used, and adds splits
accordingly.

Said chucking large heavy flies is a lot easier as well as putting in
a cast mend.

It's an interesting technique, and something I would like to experiment
with.
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 3:09 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the
taper
of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have
better
line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted flies
with
ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly
presentation
wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?

Just because someone does a stupid thing and then gets it published in
an article does not make it a "right" thing. The taper exists for a
reason and many a fly fishermen gets good line management and tosses
large flies when nymphing. For that matter they sell level running
lines which are often used by Great Lakes Steelheader's which is what
I would suggest one does before they went and cut a perfectly good DT
fly line.

It sounds like cutting the taper off a DT line would make it act as a level
line. Now wondering if Gary Borger thought it was a stupid thing when he
wrote about it in his "Nymphing" book on the section of casting heavy
weighted flies?
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Nov 26, 1:13 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"rw" wrote in message

...





Tom Nakashima wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the
taper of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have
better line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted
flies with ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly
presentation wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

There might be something to it.

Level lines used to be common years ago, mainly, I thought, because they
were cheap. More expensive tapered lines were easier to cast. Maybe you
can manage the line better with a level line. It's possible, but it's been
so long since I've used one that I have no clue.

I don't buy the throwing "large weighted flies with ease" argument.

If you give it a try I'd be interested to know it comes out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Actually I do have a DT line that needs to be reversed, thought
about cutting the taper off the one side and experimenting.

The article is drifting for steelhead in rivers.
For chucking large weighted flies, the anglers makes his own
leaders and starts with a 30" piece of 40 lb test butt section, jointed with
the now taperless line by nailknot. He then adds a 12" piece of 20 lb.
connected with a double uni-knot. Then bloodknots on his long 10 lb.
tippet/tippets depending on the fly or flies used, and adds splits
accordingly.

Said chucking large heavy flies is a lot easier as well as putting in
a cast mend.

It's an interesting technique, and something I would like to experiment
with.
-tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

f
For large weighted fly take the 40 lb mono back to the center of the
reel spool. Sooner or later your not really fly fishing.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 1:13 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"rw" wrote in message

...





Tom Nakashima wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the
taper of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to
have
better line management control, and the ability to throw large
weighted
flies with ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since
dry-fly
presentation wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering
if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

There might be something to it.

Level lines used to be common years ago, mainly, I thought, because
they
were cheap. More expensive tapered lines were easier to cast. Maybe you
can manage the line better with a level line. It's possible, but it's
been
so long since I've used one that I have no clue.

I don't buy the throwing "large weighted flies with ease" argument.

If you give it a try I'd be interested to know it comes out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Actually I do have a DT line that needs to be reversed, thought
about cutting the taper off the one side and experimenting.

The article is drifting for steelhead in rivers.
For chucking large weighted flies, the anglers makes his own
leaders and starts with a 30" piece of 40 lb test butt section, jointed
with
the now taperless line by nailknot. He then adds a 12" piece of 20 lb.
connected with a double uni-knot. Then bloodknots on his long 10 lb.
tippet/tippets depending on the fly or flies used, and adds splits
accordingly.

Said chucking large heavy flies is a lot easier as well as putting in
a cast mend.

It's an interesting technique, and something I would like to experiment
with.
-tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

f
For large weighted fly take the 40 lb mono back to the center of the
reel spool. Sooner or later your not really fly fishing.

So where do you draw the line?
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Nov 26, 4:31 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message

It sounds like cutting the taper off a DT line would make it act as a level
line. Now wondering if Gary Borger thought it was a stupid thing when he
wrote about it in his "Nymphing" book on the section of casting heavy
weighted flies?

Just because Mr. Borger wrote instead of Mr. Me, does not mean it's
not a stupid thing to do. Unless of course one is in the industry and
his inventory of DT fly lines needs to be reduced. Its' not a new
idea, both Steve and I mentioned level taper fly lines.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 4:31 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message

It sounds like cutting the taper off a DT line would make it act as a
level
line. Now wondering if Gary Borger thought it was a stupid thing when he
wrote about it in his "Nymphing" book on the section of casting heavy
weighted flies?

Just because Mr. Borger wrote instead of Mr. Me, does not mean it's
not a stupid thing to do. Unless of course one is in the industry and
his inventory of DT fly lines needs to be reduced. Its' not a new
idea, both Steve and I mentioned level taper fly lines.

So what's a level taper fly line?
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:

I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the
taper of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to
have better line management control, and the ability to throw large
weighted flies with ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that
since dry-fly presentation wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering
if anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom





Haven't found a reason to do it, regardless of how much chuck and duck I
do. A heavy-weighted fly, or a ton of split shot, tends to take the line
out of the picture in any case, and I haven't noticed any problems with
line control or drift once the fly is in the water.

Some times, these guys need to say stuff just to have something to write
about.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Nov 26, 1:47 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"BJ Conner" wrote in message

...





On Nov 26, 1:13 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"rw" wrote in message

...

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the
taper of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to
have
better line management control, and the ability to throw large
weighted
flies with ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since
dry-fly
presentation wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering
if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

There might be something to it.

Level lines used to be common years ago, mainly, I thought, because
they
were cheap. More expensive tapered lines were easier to cast. Maybe you
can manage the line better with a level line. It's possible, but it's
been
so long since I've used one that I have no clue.

I don't buy the throwing "large weighted flies with ease" argument.

If you give it a try I'd be interested to know it comes out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Actually I do have a DT line that needs to be reversed, thought
about cutting the taper off the one side and experimenting.

The article is drifting for steelhead in rivers.
For chucking large weighted flies, the anglers makes his own
leaders and starts with a 30" piece of 40 lb test butt section, jointed
with
the now taperless line by nailknot. He then adds a 12" piece of 20 lb.
connected with a double uni-knot. Then bloodknots on his long 10 lb.
tippet/tippets depending on the fly or flies used, and adds splits
accordingly.

Said chucking large heavy flies is a lot easier as well as putting in
a cast mend.

It's an interesting technique, and something I would like to experiment
with.
-tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

f
For large weighted fly take the 40 lb mono back to the center of the
reel spool. Sooner or later your not really fly fishing.

So where do you draw the line?
-tom- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't know.
I have fished with 12' "spinning tapers" that was technically fly
fishing. In reality it was in between. In parctice the 12 ft of
flyline wasn't much different than a lead weight. The trick was to
hold the coils mono just right to keep from cutting your finger.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Nov 26, 2:10 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message

...

On Nov 26, 4:31 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message

It sounds like cutting the taper off a DT line would make it act as a
level
line. Now wondering if Gary Borger thought it was a stupid thing when he
wrote about it in his "Nymphing" book on the section of casting heavy
weighted flies?

Just because Mr. Borger wrote instead of Mr. Me, does not mean it's
not a stupid thing to do. Unless of course one is in the industry and
his inventory of DT fly lines needs to be reduced. Its' not a new
idea, both Steve and I mentioned level taper fly lines.

So what's a level taper fly line?
-tom

a 5-5-5 or a 8-8-8 or ???

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
...

For large weighted fly take the 40 lb mono back to the center of the
reel spool. Sooner or later your not really fly fishing.

So where do you draw the line?
-tom
Except for those cases where the term is defined in the local fishing
regulations, where to draw the line for the definition of "fly fishing" is
pretty much a matter of personal preference. However, the term "fly casting"
is fairly universally restricted to a method where it is the line that is
actually cast, and the fly is simply along for the ride. Thus, under that
definition, when one is lobbing a heavily weighted fly (or combinations of a
fly and weights) and the line simply follows the terminal tackle, one is no
longer "fly casting".

Bob Weinberger

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:10:11 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 4:31 pm, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Wayne Knight" wrote in message

It sounds like cutting the taper off a DT line would make it act as a
level
line. Now wondering if Gary Borger thought it was a stupid thing when he
wrote about it in his "Nymphing" book on the section of casting heavy
weighted flies?

Just because Mr. Borger wrote instead of Mr. Me, does not mean it's
not a stupid thing to do. Unless of course one is in the industry and
his inventory of DT fly lines needs to be reduced. Its' not a new
idea, both Steve and I mentioned level taper fly lines.

So what's a level taper fly line?
-tom

ahahahaha!
yeah, that's pretty awkward, "taper" in that phrase is superfluous.
I think "level line" would do it...

/daytripper (not paid by the word)

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

Tom Nakashima wrote:ioned level taper fly lines.

So what's a level taper fly line?

An oxymoron.

A level fly line is one without a taper. I think you have to be
of a certain age (or limited now to a very strict budget) to have
actually fished one. Last tine I saw one for sale was a couple
of years ago in Wal-Mart.

JR

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

Wayne Knight wrote:
Just because someone does a stupid thing and then gets it published in
an article does not make it a "right" thing. The taper exists for a
reason

Yes, it helps to better and more delicately turn over and lay
down a leader and fly. If you're not fishing a fly, though, but
rather chucking and ducking a lure masquerading as a fly (g), a
level line would do as well (or at least no less well).

and many a fly fishermen gets good line management and tosses
large flies when nymphing.

True, but they don't *need* the taper and could do exactly the
same without it. Of course, as long as you already *have* a
tapered line (DT or WF), there's no point in using a separate
level line just because the taper, in a given situation, serves
no useful function.

- JR

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

The article is drifting for steelhead in rivers.
For chucking large weighted flies, the anglers makes his own
leaders and starts with a 30" piece of 40 lb test butt section, jointed
with the now taperless line by nailknot. He then adds a 12" piece of 20
lb. connected with a double uni-knot. Then bloodknots on his long 10 lb.
tippet/tippets depending on the fly or flies used, and adds splits
accordingly.

Said chucking large heavy flies is a lot easier as well as putting in
a cast mend.

It's an interesting technique, and something I would like to experiment

In my own WTF way, that's what I referenced with Great Lakes Steelheading.
Only people don't remove the taper on the fly line they typically use a
level (no taper- my bad) or running line and it's probably why the author
mentioned a DT. One could cut the taper off the front of the WF line and
achieve the same effect as long as he/she didn't cast much over 30' of line
and the really thin running line would come into play. Cortland among others
still offers at least one level line.

Technically it may be fly fishing but IMO you're no longer dependent upon
the line to deliver the fly but one is using the weight of the shot and the
fly to propel the fly to the target like one would with a spinning reel.
Without having to fight the properties of the tapered fly line the delivery
of the hardware is easier. In the great lakes tribs many people make
"slinkys" which are just bags of leaded shot. The things are a PITA to cast,
if that's the term one wants to use, with a normal fly line

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

It sounds like cutting the taper off a DT line would make it act as a
level line. Now wondering if Gary Borger thought it was a stupid thing
when he wrote about it in his "Nymphing" book on the section of casting
heavy weighted flies?

It's not important if Mr. Borger thinks it was a stupid thing. He's trying
to sell a book and he has managed to make a living selling himself as an
expert fly fisherman. I wish I had half of his technical fishing ability but
like everything else it's up to the reader to determine if his suggestion
fits their situation. It's not a new technique and I didn't particularly
care for this book but that's why they make menus. Besides, he probably gets
free or significantly discounted fly lines. I have to buy mine and I'll be
damned if I'm going to cut a perfectly good DT line when suitable and less
expensive running lines are available.

I used to get to share time with Bruce Richards of Scientific Anglers and
some "special" fly lines once a year, the man has a mean streak when it
comes to playing with fly line tapers for "charitable purposes" and he's the
one who first mentioned cutting the tapered portion of a fly line to me for
specialized shooting heads. So if by chance Mr. Borger thought he was
writing up some new technique, then he is mistaken.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:54:29 -0500, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

The article is drifting for steelhead in rivers.
For chucking large weighted flies, the anglers makes his own
leaders and starts with a 30" piece of 40 lb test butt section, jointed
with the now taperless line by nailknot. He then adds a 12" piece of 20
lb. connected with a double uni-knot. Then bloodknots on his long 10 lb.
tippet/tippets depending on the fly or flies used, and adds splits
accordingly.

Said chucking large heavy flies is a lot easier as well as putting in
a cast mend.

It's an interesting technique, and something I would like to experiment

In my own WTF way

Hmmm....."Weight Taper Forward"?

/daytripper (;-)

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Tom Nakashima"

snip.

Actually I do have a DT line that needs to be reversed, thought
about cutting the taper off the one side and experimenting.


-tom

there you go.....

john

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 26 Nov, 21:09, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
I read an article over the holidays about a technique of cutting the taper
of a double taper line when nymph fishing. The reasons were to have better
line management control, and the ability to throw large weighted flies with
ease, plus a nice drift. The article stated that since dry-fly presentation
wasn't a concern, the taper was useless.

I've never even considered cutting the taper off a line, and wondering if
anyone has done that when nymphing?
-tom

The taper is not useless, it is still required, but is achieved by
using a steeply tapered leader and the appropriate nylon, ( stiff!),
and if you try this using a level leader, attached to level line ( or
the level belly of a DT) , or a normal "limp" leader, or a normal DT,
( unless it is a very heavy line), you will have problems. The leader
is tapered sharply, in order to allow turn over of the heavy fly
without too much "kick back", and also to allow the fly to be moved
properly at all. The steeply tapered leader is essential for power
transmission to the heavy fly.

If a standard tapered DT is used, most of the energy is dissipated
when the taper turns over, and there is simply not enough left to
propel the leader and a heavy fly. The fly just flops about out of
control.

The main reason for such a rig is also not casting, although it does
make it easier to control heavy flies, but in the very superior line
control which results. It would be easier to cast such heavy rigs
using light spinning gear, but then you have no control at all, as it
is more or less impossible to mend or otherwise control nylon or other
line in such a way as to affect the presentation of the fly.

I use a similar line/leader when casting heavy flies for pike fishing,
but there the casting ease is of more importance. I also use a similar
head for casting heavy flies on light gear.

There are many arguments that this is not fly-fishing. May be so, I don
´t know, and I don´t much care, it is however one of the few gear set-
ups which will allow half-way decent casting and control of heavy set-
ups. If that is what is required, then there is no reason why one
should not use it.

Using a heavy level line will achieve much the same thing, but you
still need a sharply tapered leader. This is also not a distance
rig! basically only suitable for short to middle range
presentations. The lack of taper on a level line affects its casting
properties considerably.

If you wish to retain the properties of your line, then consider
making up a multi tip rig like this;
http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/juro.htm

this gives you a very versatile basic rig, and you can still use the
"cut" DT as normal if desired.

TL
MC

ALL THIS IS MERELY MY OPINION!!! If you don´t like it, or disagree
with it, that is just fine with me.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 27 Nov, 08:02, Mike wrote:


A couple of other points of note if you want to experiment with this.
After you cut the line, seal the end with an appropriate waterproof
glue.

This rig allows greater control for several reasons. The line can be
mended right to the tip. The line IS EQUALLY BUOYANT right to the tip.
This means that your fly is fishing immediately below the tip of the
line. With a tapered line, the tip is less buoyant, and usually pulled
under by heavy rigs. This means that an indeterminate amount of fly
line is below the surface, and out of your control. This also affects
precise depth presentation. With very heavy rigs, you may still need
a buoyant strike indicator to overcome this, even when using a buoyant
level line.

Precise depth presentations can be all important!

By mending, one can manoeuver the fly very close to undercut banks,
various obstructions etc, and still know exactly where the fly is.
This is more or less impossible when the front taper of the line has
sunk to some depth or other. Knowing exactly where your fly is can
save you a lot of snagging, still allow you to fish in difficult
places, and results in more and bigger fish.

TL
MC

ALL THIS IS MERELY MY OPINION!!! If you don´t like it, or disagree
with it, that is just fine with me.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"daytripper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:10:11 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"


So what's a level taper fly line?
-tom
ahahahaha!
yeah, that's pretty awkward, "taper" in that phrase is superfluous.
I think "level line" would do it...

/daytripper (not paid by the word)


It was almost like waiting for the rainbow to take the fly.

I was doing my own research on this matter and found that
"Level Line" is a little different than Double Taper Line (regardless of the
taper). As you know DT line is easy to mend and roll cast due to the long
continuous belly of the line. The Level Line is usually of fine diameter
and can be used for shooting heads or inexpensive sinking lines. The Level
Line won't roll cast or mend as well. And this is probably why some anglers
cut the taper off the DT line, when there is no delicate presentation
involved. I would never call it a "waste" if the angler/s are using it
effectively to catch fish.

You can read about the function of the taper, the type of tapers, he
http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choo...ome.html#Taper

I know some of you anglers are very proficient in your fly-fishing ways. For
others like myself, I do enjoy reading, researching and trying new methods
and techniques. What I like about this newsgroup is reading the TR's and
the techniques used, wish there was more of that instead of the name calling
and **** wars. I feel if someone has an idea, be open to share it.
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

Mike wrote:
Mike wrote:


A couple of other points of note if you want to experiment with this.
snip
ALL THIS IS MERELY MY OPINION!!! If you don´t like it, or disagree
with it, that is just fine with me.

The disclaimer is a bit over the top and not really true
in any case. If disagreement was really just fine with you
then you wouldn't descend into vitriol and invective at
the first hint of it.

And it is considered rude and poor netiquette to respond to
your own post. You should give enough thoughtful consideration
to your responses so that one is enough.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 08:02, Mike wrote:


A couple of other points of note if you want to experiment with this.
After you cut the line, seal the end with an appropriate waterproof
glue.

This rig allows greater control for several reasons. The line can be
mended right to the tip. The line IS EQUALLY BUOYANT right to the tip.
This means that your fly is fishing immediately below the tip of the
line. With a tapered line, the tip is less buoyant, and usually pulled
under by heavy rigs. This means that an indeterminate amount of fly
line is below the surface, and out of your control. This also affects
precise depth presentation. With very heavy rigs, you may still need
a buoyant strike indicator to overcome this, even when using a buoyant
level line.

Precise depth presentations can be all important!

By mending, one can manoeuver the fly very close to undercut banks,
various obstructions etc, and still know exactly where the fly is.
This is more or less impossible when the front taper of the line has
sunk to some depth or other. Knowing exactly where your fly is can
save you a lot of snagging, still allow you to fish in difficult
places, and results in more and bigger fish.

TL
MC

Well Mike, I'll have to say, you figured it out.
I enjoyed reading what you wrote.

Yes, the idea of cutting the taper off (one side) DT line is partly for the
"buoyancy". You'll have to seal the end of the line indeed (common sense).
Also the mending control application, to send a "cast mend" right to the
beginning of the strike indicator, which is less drag on the drifting
nymphs. The idea is to get that drift right.

As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:



As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 27 Nov, 16:29, Mike wrote:
On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:



As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.


PS. The stiffer the nylon, the lesser diameter you can use.

TL
MC

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:



As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT
line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Mike you may have missed this part,
It's the custom leader for the drifting nymphs:

After cutting off the taper off the DT line, a 30" piece of 40 lb. test butt
section was attached with a nail knot. Attached to that a 12" piece of 20
lb. test attached with a double uni-knot (I'm sure for movement). Attached
to that is a 36" piece of 10 lb. test tippet by way of blood knot. A 12"
tag out of the 36" piece is tied to the 1st fly. Added was a 24" piece of 10
lb. tippet to the 2nd fly. 2- Split shots were added before the 1st fly (or
splits depending on current flow), and yes a strike indicator on the 40 lb.
test section.

With this rig, I don't see the need for the taper.
Ability to throw the rig with the heavy belly line.
Good management to control the line for the drift.
Good drift of the nymphs.
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 27 Nov, 16:53, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT
line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Mike you may have missed this part,
It's the custom leader for the drifting nymphs:

After cutting off the taper off the DT line, a 30" piece of 40 lb. test butt
section was attached with a nail knot. Attached to that a 12" piece of 20
lb. test attached with a double uni-knot (I'm sure for movement). Attached
to that is a 36" piece of 10 lb. test tippet by way of blood knot. A 12"
tag out of the 36" piece is tied to the 1st fly. Added was a 24" piece of 10
lb. tippet to the 2nd fly. 2- Split shots were added before the 1st fly (or
splits depending on current flow), and yes a strike indicator on the 40 lb..
test section.

With this rig, I don't see the need for the taper.
Ability to throw the rig with the heavy belly line.
Good management to control the line for the drift.
Good drift of the nymphs.
-tom

No, I didn´t miss it. THAT IS THE "TAPER". These rigs wont work very
well without a taper of some sort. In this case the leader is the
taper. The energy transfer to the leader is direct from the fly-line,
and as it is the thick ( belly )level part of the line, the maximum
energy is transferred directly to the stiff leader butt, and so on.
This causes the leader to straighten when casting, and allows control.

If one merely attaches a standard tapered leader to the line, or
indeed any leader without a steep taper originating in a stiff nylon
butt close to the line diameter, then it will kick back massively
causing tangles and loss of control.

TL
MC

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 16:53, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...

On 27 Nov, 16:06, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

As I indicated with this rig, one is not throwing heavy dry-flies.
A taper is "not" needed.
It's a rig set-up specifically for drifting nymphs.

For me it's worth a try, if it doesn't work I can always reverse the DT
line
and use the tapered side.
-tom

It works all right, but you will find that a "taper" even if it only
consists of a couple of step-downs from heavy nylon, ( best is between
60...80% of the line diameter where the line is attached) is required.
If you try to use ten pound nylon as a straight through leader for
instance, it will "kick back" like a mule and cause tailing loops and
tangles.

I use this rig for fishing very heavily weighted woolly buggers in
difficult places. It gives precise control.

Also, if I might make a suggestion. Simply cut your present DT line in
half. Reverse one half on another reel, and use the BUTT end, (where
you cut it) as the tip. This accomplishes your objectives for the
"cut" line.

Use the other end as normal, with the taper at the tip. This gives
you two perfectly good 45 foot lines , which you can loop on as
desired.

TL
MC

Mike you may have missed this part,
It's the custom leader for the drifting nymphs:

After cutting off the taper off the DT line, a 30" piece of 40 lb. test
butt
section was attached with a nail knot. Attached to that a 12" piece of 20
lb. test attached with a double uni-knot (I'm sure for movement).
Attached
to that is a 36" piece of 10 lb. test tippet by way of blood knot. A 12"
tag out of the 36" piece is tied to the 1st fly. Added was a 24" piece of
10
lb. tippet to the 2nd fly. 2- Split shots were added before the 1st fly
(or
splits depending on current flow), and yes a strike indicator on the 40
lb.
test section.

With this rig, I don't see the need for the taper.
Ability to throw the rig with the heavy belly line.
Good management to control the line for the drift.
Good drift of the nymphs.
-tom

No, I didn´t miss it. THAT IS THE "TAPER". These rigs wont work very
well without a taper of some sort. In this case the leader is the
taper. The energy transfer to the leader is direct from the fly-line,
and as it is the thick ( belly )level part of the line, the maximum
energy is transferred directly to the stiff leader butt, and so on.
This causes the leader to straighten when casting, and allows control.

If one merely attaches a standard tapered leader to the line, or
indeed any leader without a steep taper originating in a stiff nylon
butt close to the line diameter, then it will kick back massively
causing tangles and loss of control.

TL
MC

YES, you got it!
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 27 Nov, 17:25, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


YES, you got it!
-tom

This also allows a very specific trick when using such rigs. The last
part of the leader is finer tippet. A "Tuck" cast is used on the final
delivery. This allows very precise placement of the weight and a
vertical entry with some force, driving the fly down to its operating
depth very quickly.

The "tuck cast" and more or less the same rig you are describing is
explained here;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...s/tactics.html

for a more detailed explanation of the tuck cast;
http://www.google.com/search?q=Tuck+....sexyloops.com

TL
MC

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 17:25, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


YES, you got it!
-tom

This also allows a very specific trick when using such rigs. The last
part of the leader is finer tippet. A "Tuck" cast is used on the final
delivery. This allows very precise placement of the weight and a
vertical entry with some force, driving the fly down to its operating
depth very quickly.

The "tuck cast" and more or less the same rig you are describing is
explained here;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...s/tactics.html

for a more detailed explanation of the tuck cast;
http://www.google.com/search?q=Tuck+....sexyloops.com

TL
MC

Yes, I am familiar with the tuck cast.
I also use an upper casting plane when performing it.

For this rig set-up I just may use an arc cast, a gentle pick-up and
laydown. Definitely staying as much as I can out of the air to prevent
tangles. I do like the upstream cast mend, you need a lot of slack for that.
I also plan to try a gentle roll cast that I use, by stopping the rod
higher, and gently letting the line loop out. Executes well with a slow cane
rod and DT line.
-tom

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

On 27 Nov, 18:11, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On 27 Nov, 17:25, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

YES, you got it!
-tom

This also allows a very specific trick when using such rigs. The last
part of the leader is finer tippet. A "Tuck" cast is used on the final
delivery. This allows very precise placement of the weight and a
vertical entry with some force, driving the fly down to its operating
depth very quickly.

The "tuck cast" and more or less the same rig you are describing is
explained here;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...yling/Tactics/...

for a more detailed explanation of the tuck cast;
http://www.google.com/search?q=Tuck+....sexyloops.com

TL
MC

Yes, I am familiar with the tuck cast.
I also use an upper casting plane when performing it.

For this rig set-up I just may use an arc cast, a gentle pick-up and
laydown. Definitely staying as much as I can out of the air to prevent
tangles. I do like the upstream cast mend, you need a lot of slack for that.

Cutting the taper off DT line?
 

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 27 Nov, 18:11, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



On 27 Nov, 17:25, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:

YES, you got it!
-tom

This also allows a very specific trick when using such rigs. The last
part of the leader is finer tippet. A "Tuck" cast is used on the final
delivery. This allows very precise placement of the weight and a
vertical entry with some force, driving the fly down to its operating
depth very quickly.

The "tuck cast" and more or less the same rig you are describing is
explained here;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...yling/Tactics/...

for a more detailed explanation of the tuck cast;
http://www.google.com/search?q=Tuck+....sexyloops.com

TL
MC

Yes, I am familiar with the tuck cast.
I also use an upper casting plane when performing it.

For this rig set-up I just may use an arc cast, a gentle pick-up and
laydown. Definitely staying as much as I can out of the air to prevent
tangles. I do like the upstream cast mend, you need a lot of slack for
that.
I also plan to try a gentle roll cast that I use, by stopping the rod
higher, and gently letting the line loop out. Executes well with a slow
cane
rod and DT line.
-tom

Will all work, but the other massive advantage of the tuck cast, is
that you can drop the fly in very close to a bank, or log, or
whatever, and it will sink vertically. All the other casts described
require the leader to straighten, which means you are at least a
leader length away from the bank before your fly reaches operating
depth, and this is often simply too far.

You can also tuck a roll cast. Pull the rod tip back as the line is
straightening. Requires a little practice, but works great, and is a
first class method of fishing down a high or undercut bank etc. Also
possible to haul on the line at the right moment to achieve the same
thing. Matter of taste which method one employs. Timing is critical,
as otherwise you will force turn-over, and the fly will land on the
bank!

Other aerial mends with this rig will work, but are far more difficult
to execute, and I personally would not try them at all in a number of
conditions and circumstances.

I don´t use cane rods for fishing any more and have not done so for a
long time, but slower rods are definitely advantageous for these and
similar techniques. Indeed, some are more or less impossible with fast
rods.

TL
MC

Yes I love fishing the undercuts close to the bank, some anglers over look
these areas. Some are undercut quite a bit and pretty deep, good grounds for
fish to cover, the Trinity River as a lot of that.
-tom