Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

I tie a sunken spinner pattern using floss for the wings. I used a type
of dental floss called glide. It is very easy to tie with and allows
the fly to sink like a stone.


--
theartoflee

He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains
a fool forever.
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Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Howdy,

I was finishing up my flies for the GFS, and got to playing around
tinting some dental floss to wrap as a mayfly body. I remembered
reading about it somewhere in the distant past (here?), but couldn't
recall the particulars. (I'm pretty sure Mike C. mentioned it somewhere
in one of his discussions of tying tricks.)

It makes a nice segmented body, but I haven't had a chance to test
any flies made with it. I tinted it using waterproof markers, but might
want to play around with coffee or tea for darker colors. I used waxed
because that's what I had.

So has anyone here played around with it? Did you use waxed or
unwaxed and why? What did you use to color it? (Arabica? Cold drip?
Decaf?)

:-)


Chuck Vance

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 15, 7:24 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:
Howdy,

I was finishing up my flies for the GFS, and got to playing around
tinting some dental floss to wrap as a mayfly body. I remembered
reading about it somewhere in the distant past (here?), but couldn't
recall the particulars. (I'm pretty sure Mike C. mentioned it somewhere
in one of his discussions of tying tricks.)

It makes a nice segmented body, but I haven't had a chance to test
any flies made with it. I tinted it using waterproof markers, but might
want to play around with coffee or tea for darker colors. I used waxed
because that's what I had.

So has anyone here played around with it? Did you use waxed or
unwaxed and why? What did you use to color it? (Arabica? Cold drip?
Decaf?)

:-)

Chuck Vance

If you want to use this to colour with markers etc, then use unwaxed,
as it will not take the colour properly otherwise. The same applies to
dyeing it. I have used it a lot in the past for forming under-bodies
on some flies, but I don´t use it much any more now.

How you manipulate it is important. Keep it flat for "forming" shapes,
and twist it tight for segmentation etc.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

As it may also be of interest, here is some info on dyeing with coffee
and tea;

http://www.twincubs.com/tutorial2.html

You can also use white spirit vinegar to help fix the dye and make it
more permanent.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 15, 3:58 pm, Mike wrote:
As it may also be of interest, here is some info on dyeing with coffee
and tea;

http://www.twincubs.com/tutorial2.html

You can also use white spirit vinegar to help fix the dye and make it
more permanent.

TL
MC

I have never used dental floss (for fly tying), so dyeing it is beyond
my ken, but I have used Kool-Ade as a dye for many things over the
years. Who knows.......trout might like the smell of cherry KA on a
nymph.

cheers

oz

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 16, 2:33 am, MajorOz wrote:
On Jan 15, 3:58 pm, Mike wrote:

As it may also be of interest, here is some info on dyeing with coffee
and tea;

http://www.twincubs.com/tutorial2.html

You can also use white spirit vinegar to help fix the dye and make it
more permanent.

TL
MC

I have never used dental floss (for fly tying), so dyeing it is beyond
my ken, but I have used Kool-Ade as a dye for many things over the
years. Who knows.......trout might like the smell of cherry KA on a
nymph.

cheers

oz

Possibly, but then again, they may prefer the taste of French roasted
Sumatran espresso? Of course, you would have to dye the flies fresh
on stream.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Using such might also be grounds for a citation! :)

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Might be really good for educated and selective trout though?

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Mike wrote:

If you want to use this to colour with markers etc, then use unwaxed,
as it will not take the colour properly otherwise. The same applies to
dyeing it. I have used it a lot in the past for forming under-bodies
on some flies, but I don't use it much any more now.

I liked the color effect I got using waxed, as some of the ink
rubbed off right away, but it retained enough to give a nice muted
color. But I'll try it with unwaxed to see how it looks.

Does waxed versus unwaxed have any effect on flotation? In
general, does it tend to float when used for mayfly bodies?

How you manipulate it is important. Keep it flat for "forming" shapes,
and twist it tight for segmentation etc.

Yeah, I was playing around with different effects. I was thinking
it would be a cheap alternative to some other body materials used to
give segmenation such as biots.


Chuck Vance (OK, so it's not about money as much as I just like
playing around with different ways of tying)

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 16, 2:23 pm, wrote:
Mike wrote:
If you want to use this to colour with markers etc, then use unwaxed,
as it will not take the colour properly otherwise. The same applies to
dyeing it. I have used it a lot in the past for forming under-bodies
on some flies, but I don't use it much any more now.

I liked the color effect I got using waxed, as some of the ink
rubbed off right away, but it retained enough to give a nice muted
color. But I'll try it with unwaxed to see how it looks.

Does waxed versus unwaxed have any effect on flotation? In
general, does it tend to float when used for mayfly bodies?

How you manipulate it is important. Keep it flat for "forming" shapes,
and twist it tight for segmentation etc.

Yeah, I was playing around with different effects. I was thinking
it would be a cheap alternative to some other body materials used to
give segmenation such as biots.

Chuck Vance (OK, so it's not about money as much as I just like
playing around with different ways of tying)

If the flies are treated with a decent floatant, and have decent
hackles etc,then they float well enough. I can´t say I noticed any
difference between waxed and unwaxed in this regard. Latterly I always
used unwaxed anyway. I have not tested it, but I would expect the
waxed stuff to float better initially at least, as it is simply more
waterproof.

The main problem with colouring the waxed stuff is that quite a few
floatants just dissolve the colour off it. If you use liquid "dip"
type floatants, this can cause other problems as well, When you dip
other flies in it, they get coloured by it! The colour does not
actually soak in to the waxed stuff, as you have noticed, it just
colours the wax on the surface.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

"Conan The Librarian" wrote

to playing around tinting some dental floss to wrap as a mayfly body.


My question is simple ...why?

What traits does dental floss have that other materials lack?

If you are going to go to all the trouble to die it there must be something
very special about it ?? but what escapes my limited imagination. ( when on
considers the dozens of other 'string like' materials available in every
possible shade and tone )

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Conan The Librarian" wrote



to die it there must be something


dye

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 16, 11:41 pm, "Larry L" wrote:
"Conan The Librarian" wrote

to playing around tinting some dental floss to wrap as a mayfly body.

My question is simple ...why?

What traits does dental floss have that other materials lack?

If you are going to go to all the trouble to die it there must be something
very special about it ?? but what escapes my limited imagination. ( when on
considers the dozens of other 'string like' materials available in every
possible shade and tone )

It was very popular at one time, because it was cheap and easily
available. It was mainly used for building up underbodies on various
patterns. The coloured silk floss and similar stuff in use was much
more expensive. It can be layered or shaped securely, and wound very
tightly indeed. There were not many materials like this available when
it was first widely used.

Asking "why" in regard to many materials used for fly-dressing, unless
they are used a a result of very specific properties is a bit
pointless. Often, the answer will be "because it was there".

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Knew I had some references somewhere;

http://books.google.com/books?id=Cc6...xTSJzgWUtCrAN4

http://books.google.com/books?id=zaP...MAw-zI4RnUH1uM

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/feat...es/part88.html

If you do a search on dental floss and flies you will come up with a
lot more.

It is very strong and versatile stuff.The very large array of
synthetic flosses and threads now available is a modern phenomenon. At
one time silk was used more or less universally as dressing thread. A
material like dental floss, which is extremely strong, cheap, and
could be easily manipulated and coloured was of very considerable use
to many at the time.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

"Mike" wrote


Asking "why" in regard to many materials used for fly-dressing, unless
they are used a a result of very specific properties is a bit
pointless. Often, the answer will be "because it was there".



Although I'm certain you are right about the most common answer,

I think that choice of materials is a key factor in all design, including
flies ....

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

http://groups.msn.com/TheFlyFishingB...ess age=19567

http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...underbody.html

http://www.anglingbc.com/flyfishing/...sts/411.html?0

http://www.pairowoodies.com/james/fly-patterns.html ( See "Rusty
Rat")

http://www.flyfisherman.com/ftb/ssthread/index1.html

http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/fly...m?parentID=120

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 17, 12:21 am, "Larry L" wrote:
"Mike" wrote



Asking "why" in regard to many materials used for fly-dressing, unless
they are used a a result of very specific properties is a bit
pointless. Often, the answer will be "because it was there".

Although I'm certain you are right about the most common answer,

I think that choice of materials is a key factor in all design, including
flies ....

That is undoubtedly true, but one is always limited to what is
available. There are just more things available nowadays.

At the time it was popular, it was the best available material for the
job. It is still used for blow lines, and a few other things.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Mike wrote:

If you do a search on dental floss and flies you will come up with a
lot more.

It is very strong and versatile stuff.The very large array of
synthetic flosses and threads now available is a modern phenomenon. At
one time silk was used more or less universally as dressing thread. A
material like dental floss, which is extremely strong, cheap, and
could be easily manipulated and coloured was of very considerable use
to many at the time.

TL
MC

though not relevant at all...rachel once, lacking thread, replaced one
of my missing shirt buttons by sewing a new one on with dental floss. it
was a sincere and pure gift granted to me, and i still marvel at it.
she's a good cook too.

jeff

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Larry L wrote:

My question is simple ...why?

My answer is even simpler: Why not? :-)

What traits does dental floss have that other materials lack?

That's what I'm trying to find out. :-)

If you are going to go to all the trouble to die it there must be something
very special about it ?? but what escapes my limited imagination. ( when on
considers the dozens of other 'string like' materials available in every
possible shade and tone )

Rather than go out and try to buy up every possible shade and tone,
I like the idea of just tinting (coloring with a waterproof marker) it
myself as I need it. I also like that it seems to form nice segmented
bodies very easily. If it also floats well and is durable, then it's
a good alternative to some of the other stuff folks use for dry fly
bodies such as biots and quills.

The bigger question might be: Why do any of us use biots or quills
for bodies? Why do some guys go to craft stores and root around in
the yarn or the feathers? Why do some guys save the fur from their
dogs or cats for tying?


Chuck Vance (because ... just because)

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

Mike wrote:

If the flies are treated with a decent floatant, and have decent
hackles etc,then they float well enough. I can't say I noticed any
difference between waxed and unwaxed in this regard. Latterly I always
used unwaxed anyway. I have not tested it, but I would expect the
waxed stuff to float better initially at least, as it is simply more
waterproof.

That was my expectation as well.

The main problem with colouring the waxed stuff is that quite a few
floatants just dissolve the colour off it. If you use liquid "dip"
type floatants, this can cause other problems as well, When you dip
other flies in it, they get coloured by it! The colour does not
actually soak in to the waxed stuff, as you have noticed, it just
colours the wax on the surface.

Got it. I pre-treat my flies with Watershed, and while it didn't
seem to dissolve any of the color, it did alter it a bit. (In a good
way, as it turned out, as it made the yellow look more like a
"sulphur" yellow, which is what I was after.)

I'll test them on the water as soon as I get a chance to see how
they float, and how they react to Frog's Fanny, which is the only
onstream "floatant" I use.

Thanks for all the links you provided as well. I've been searching
some myself, but that made it a lot easier for me.


Chuck Vance

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

We try everything because we want to develop a fly that has our fishing
friends looking at us with envy wondering what we have on. If we just
wanted to catch fish the old standards do an admirable job.


--
JeffK
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Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

On Jan 17, 3:02 pm, Conan The Librarian wrote:


Although I used to dye a large number and amount of materials, I no
longer do much dyeing, as I have found that the majority of materials
can be coloured very well indeed using various marker pens.

Even though the really good pens ( Like these ; http://www.dickblick.com/zz213/42/
http://www.tradeprintsupplies.co.uk/...ne_markers.php )

are quite expensive, they still cost a lot less time and money than
dyeing stuff in the conventional manner. One may also easily dye small
amounts of material easily and quickly, and this means that one can
produce a large range of hackles for instance, with a single grizzly
cape and the pens. Or a partridge skin, etc etc.

This is far less wasteful than dyeing capes and skins, or even a hand
full of feathers etc. Also means you need far fewer materials in
total. Often, an amateur dresser only need a dozen or so feathers of a
particular colour, or a couple of yards of coloured thread etc etc. It
is easy to make this as required using the pens.

For optimal dyeing of materials with the pens, you should still wash
and dry the materials to be dyed, as the results are a lot better.
Varios pens also give different results with regard to colour,
permanence, fastness, etc.

For anybody starting out for instance, I would definitely recommend
this method over buying loads of different coloured materials, or
dyeing stuff oneself in the conventional manner.

TL
MC

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

In article , jeff miller
writes
Mike wrote:
If you do a search on dental floss and flies you will come up with a
lot more.
It is very strong and versatile stuff.The very large array of
synthetic flosses and threads now available is a modern phenomenon. At
one time silk was used more or less universally as dressing thread. A
material like dental floss, which is extremely strong, cheap, and
could be easily manipulated and coloured was of very considerable use
to many at the time.
TL
MC

though not relevant at all...rachel once, lacking thread, replaced one
of my missing shirt buttons by sewing a new one on with dental floss.
it was a sincere and pure gift granted to me, and i still marvel at it.
she's a good cook too.

jeff

I'll bet it's the cleanest button on your shirt :-)
--
Bill Grey

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

W. D. Grey wrote:
In article , jeff miller
writes

Mike wrote:

If you do a search on dental floss and flies you will come up with a
lot more.
It is very strong and versatile stuff.The very large array of
synthetic flosses and threads now available is a modern phenomenon. At
one time silk was used more or less universally as dressing thread. A
material like dental floss, which is extremely strong, cheap, and
could be easily manipulated and coloured was of very considerable use
to many at the time.
TL
MC


though not relevant at all...rachel once, lacking thread, replaced one
of my missing shirt buttons by sewing a new one on with dental floss.
it was a sincere and pure gift granted to me, and i still marvel at
it. she's a good cook too.

jeff


I'll bet it's the cleanest button on your shirt :-)

nah...food scraps...but my teeth and gums are a bit healthier whenever i
wear that shirt! g

jeff

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

jeff miller wrote:
W. D. Grey wrote:

In article , jeff miller
writes

Mike wrote:

If you do a search on dental floss and flies you will come up with a
lot more.
It is very strong and versatile stuff.The very large array of
synthetic flosses and threads now available is a modern phenomenon. At
one time silk was used more or less universally as dressing thread. A
material like dental floss, which is extremely strong, cheap, and
could be easily manipulated and coloured was of very considerable use
to many at the time.
TL
MC



though not relevant at all...rachel once, lacking thread, replaced
one of my missing shirt buttons by sewing a new one on with dental
floss. it was a sincere and pure gift granted to me, and i still
marvel at it. she's a good cook too.

jeff



I'll bet it's the cleanest button on your shirt :-)


nah...food scraps...but my teeth and gums are a bit healthier whenever i
wear that shirt! g

jeff

I've used dental floss (non-waxed, non-scented) to tie up a bouquet
garni when cooking Coq au Vin. Works good.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Silly tying with floss (dental) question
 

rw wrote:
jeff miller wrote:

W. D. Grey wrote:

In article , jeff
miller writes

Mike wrote:

If you do a search on dental floss and flies you will come up with a
lot more.
It is very strong and versatile stuff.The very large array of
synthetic flosses and threads now available is a modern phenomenon. At
one time silk was used more or less universally as dressing thread. A
material like dental floss, which is extremely strong, cheap, and
could be easily manipulated and coloured was of very considerable use
to many at the time.
TL
MC




though not relevant at all...rachel once, lacking thread, replaced
one of my missing shirt buttons by sewing a new one on with dental
floss. it was a sincere and pure gift granted to me, and i still
marvel at it. she's a good cook too.

jeff




I'll bet it's the cleanest button on your shirt :-)



nah...food scraps...but my teeth and gums are a bit healthier whenever
i wear that shirt! g

jeff


I've used dental floss (non-waxed, non-scented) to tie up a bouquet
garni when cooking Coq au Vin. Works good.


likewise, rachel also has used it for stuffed pork loin and some chicken
dishes... i prefer the waxed and scented for my shirts though. g