Dry and dropper question
 

Hello gentlemen.

I have been absent from this group for a while because of real-life
issues (too much work). Fortunately the summer holiday is approaching
- hence a fly-fishing related question came to my mind.

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Dry and dropper question
 

On 2008-05-01, Jarmo Hurri wrote:

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

I haven't tried it yet, being so new to FF, but I was thinking multiple
length droppers with a uni knot to the dry hook bend. It would be a pretty
quick way to change droppers. Maybe loop-to-loop for dropper loops. Just
spitballin'.

nb

Dry and dropper question
 

On May 1, 1:20 pm, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Hello gentlemen.

I have been absent from this group for a while because of real-life
issues (too much work). Fortunately the summer holiday is approaching
- hence a fly-fishing related question came to my mind.

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just form a
loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the hook, and
over the fly. Pull slowly tight.

If you want to adjust the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the
dry fly along the leader.

This wont work with very small dries, but those would be pointless on
a dry and dropper rig anyway.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

Of course, the drop fly is tied to the end of your leader.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

It will also work using a leader ring and the same loop, if you want a
"stand-off" dry fly, and this will also allow you to use even knotted
leaders if they pass through the ring. Otherwise the adjustment is of
course limited to the distance between knots.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

Of course you can remove or change the dry fly at any time, simply by
passing it back through the loop.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

Is a bit difficult to explain clearly, so here´s a sketch;

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4143/slidedryzd1.jpg

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

Mike wrote:
Is a bit difficult to explain clearly, so here´s a sketch;

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4143/slidedryzd1.jpg

TL
MC

That's a pretty sweet solution, Mike.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Dry and dropper question
 

In article
,
Mike wrote:


Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just form a
loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the hook, and
over the fly. Pull slowly tight.

If you want to adjust the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the
dry fly along the leader.

This wont work with very small dries, but those would be pointless on
a dry and dropper rig anyway.


Wow! That is such an elegant solution. And I've never heard of it
anywhere before.

Congratulations and tight lines

Lazarus

Dry and dropper question
 

Mike wrote:
Of course, the drop fly is tied to the end of your leader.

TL
MC

ah...that's the part i didn't get. sounds workable, except won't the dry
fly slip during parts of the casting motion?

....i also like the idea of a short permanently attached leader to the
bend of the dry fly hook with a loop at the end for loop to loop
attachment of varying lengths of pre-rigged dropper leaders with flies.
i saw something - i think in an orvis circular - about a new (to me)
nymphing leader system that has a series of loops down its length
imparting a more natural action to the nymph as it moves with the current.

jeff

Dry and dropper question
 

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Mike wrote:

Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just form a
loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the hook, and
over the fly. Pull slowly tight.

If you want to adjust the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the
dry fly along the leader.

This wont work with very small dries, but those would be pointless on
a dry and dropper rig anyway.


Wow! That is such an elegant solution. And I've never heard of it
anywhere before.


I second that. Very nice solution.

Tim Lysyk

Dry and dropper question
 

Greetings Mike, I was hoping that you'd be around to answer my
question. :-)

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

Mike Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just
Mike form a loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the
Mike hook, and over the fly. Pull slowly tight. If you want to adjust
Mike the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the dry fly along the
Mike leader.

Sounds like a _very_ elegant solution. I need this kind of a rig at
the beginning of next month when I fish for grayling with caddis larva
imitations. I will write a report here on any observations I will make
about that rig during the week.

Thanks!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Dry and dropper question
 

On May 1, 11:47 pm, jeff miller wrote:
Mike wrote:
Of course, the drop fly is tied to the end of your leader.

TL
MC

ah...that's the part i didn't get. sounds workable, except won't the dry
fly slip during parts of the casting motion?

...i also like the idea of a short permanently attached leader to the
bend of the dry fly hook with a loop at the end for loop to loop
attachment of varying lengths of pre-rigged dropper leaders with flies.
i saw something - i think in an orvis circular - about a new (to me)
nymphing leader system that has a series of loops down its length
imparting a more natural action to the nymph as it moves with the current.

jeff

If the fly tends to slip. then make one twist in the loop before
threading the fly through it. In practice it does not actually slip
much. I have not used it very much really, I only recently thought of
it, ( end of last year) because I got fed up of having to change
tippet lengths for fishing varying depth grayling runs. I have never
seen it before either, so it might be a new idea.

First time I have published it anywhere either.

A couple of times, when larger fish took the dry, the fly slipped down
a bit. But it doesn´t slip much during casting. With large dries, I
use one twist in the loop before threading the fly through the loop.

With the leader ring, I twist the loop once anyway. This seems to lock
the ring in position very well.

I have tried various loop systems, but for one reason or another didn
´t like them much. They can cause tangles, interfere with leader
turnover, and are simply not very elegant.

I don´t like tippet off the bend off the dry, ( the "New Zealand
rig"), because it bumps fish, when they hit the nylon, and the hook
never enters their mouths.

After a large fish on the dry, you may have a slight kink in the
line, but it doesn´t seem to cause any problems.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

On May 2, 9:48 am, Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Greetings Mike, I was hoping that you'd be around to answer my
question. :-)

Is there a way to make a dry and dropper rig so that adjusting the
depth of the dropper could be done easily? I do not want to use an
adjustable indicator or any other weird gadget, just two flies and
tippet / leader material.

Mike Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just
Mike form a loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the
Mike hook, and over the fly. Pull slowly tight. If you want to adjust
Mike the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the dry fly along the
Mike leader.

Sounds like a _very_ elegant solution. I need this kind of a rig at
the beginning of next month when I fish for grayling with caddis larva
imitations. I will write a report here on any observations I will make
about that rig during the week.

Thanks!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

I will look forward to hearing your comments. I like this solution a
lot, because it does not use any knots either. I used the same leader
for a few weeks, and got a lot of fish, without having to change
anything at all. I did use a five foot tippet, so that I had plenty
of adjustment. I prefer to use the leader ring, as I like the "stand
off" fly better than just threading the leader loop through the dry
fly eye, but both work.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

With regard to "bumping" fish, when using the "New Zealand rig", this
is a lot worse when fishing for grayling, because of the way they rise
and take the fly. Indeed, I can´t remember hooking a single fish on
the dry while using it. I did try it for a while, but went back to
other methods after a season or so. I don´t use it for trout fishing
any more either.

As this sliding dry fly rig is "new", I don´t have much experience
with it, ( only half a grayling season), but it looks like becoming
one of my "go to" rigs for many situations.

Obviously, this rig is primarily designed to allow the nymph, soft
hackle, etc to fish at the right depth, but I still like to get the
fish that occasionally hit the dry fly. Otherwise, I might just as
well use a sliding indicator instead of a fly.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

With regard to the twist in the loop. You can twist the loop before
you thread it through the eye, or after. If you do it before, it can
be difficult to pull the loop tight. It really does lock the loop
better though.

Once again a sketch of what I mean. This is twisted before of course.
If you do it after, thread the loop first, and then twist it before
threading the fly through it.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9982/twistuu2.jpg

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

One final point which may be important here. A friend I met on the
water watched me using this rig, and was very enthusiastic about it. I
showed it to him,it really is very simple, takes longer to describe
it, than to do it. It also only takes seconds to adjust the depth, or
even to remove and re-attach the dry fly if desired, and the leader is
not compromised at all. No cuts, no knots, or other messing about.

Anyway, he set the rig up, and wandered off to another run. I met him
again later in the afternoon, and he told me that he had been broken a
couple of times at the loop on the eye of the dry fly, ( he had no
leader rings, and I had none with me), which surprised me a lot, as I
have never been broken like this.

It turned out he was using fluorocarbon tippet, and it seems this
stuff does not like being kinked sharply! Maybe he had poor stuff, or
something, or there were other reasons for this. I really don´t know.
I don´t use fluorocarbon, I only use nylon.

If you want to use fluorocarbon line, this may be an issue for you.
But I don´t know, as I have hardly any experience with it. I only
tried it for a while, and then went back to using nylon.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

On Fri, 02 May 2008 00:48:44 GMT, Tim Lysyk wrote:

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

Mike wrote:

Tie your dropper on, and mount your dry fly using a loop. Just form a
loop in the line, thread the loop through the eye of the hook, and
over the fly. Pull slowly tight.

If you want to adjust the depth, just loosen the loop and slide the
dry fly along the leader.

This wont work with very small dries, but those would be pointless on
a dry and dropper rig anyway.


Wow! That is such an elegant solution. And I've never heard of it
anywhere before.

It's not a new idea and there's a reason many folks who FF only have not
heard of it before...

Here's a hint - if it were such a fantastic idea, you could use it in
all fishing situations to hold the fly to the leader, even without a
dropper below.

Simply try it with any hook and mono, and you should see why it ain't
all that great for FFing.

HTH,
R


I second that. Very nice solution.

Tim Lysyk

Dry and dropper question
 

If you want to lock the loop in position more firmly, then take one
side of the loop once or twice around the hook shank, before feeding
the loop over it.

If you get a big fish on the dry, this will kink your line more as it
slides down the leader, but this did not cause me any particular
problems. The biggest problem I had was actually getting the loop
through the eye of some smaller dry flies, which is why I prefer the
leader ring setup as well.

You can also lock the leader ring more firmly using a similar
technique, just thread the loop twice through the ring, before
threading your fly and dropper through the loop. This will still slide
easily if you loosen the loop, but will take a lot more force to slide
it if the loop is tight. Indeed, if you feed it through three times
for instance, it probably wont slide at all unless you loosen the
loop.

I broke wet 6 lb mono trying variations of this, without the ring
sliding at all of course.

However, if I was getting a lot of fish on the dry fly, I would take
the nymph off, and fish a pure dry fly set up anyway.

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

On May 2, 4:58 pm, wrote:

It's not a new idea and there's a reason many folks who FF only have not
heard of it before...

Here's a hint - if it were such a fantastic idea, you could use it in
all fishing situations to hold the fly to the leader, even without a
dropper below.

Simply try it with any hook and mono, and you should see why it ain't
all that great for FFing.

HTH,
R

It is purely to solve the problem described in the original question.
It would be quite pointless using such a rig to attach flies like this
as a matter of course.

Nobody with any sense would even consider it................

Ah, I see.......... never mind.

MC

Dry and dropper question
 

On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

On May 2, 4:58 pm, wrote:

It's not a new idea and there's a reason many folks who FF only have not
heard of it before...

Here's a hint - if it were such a fantastic idea, you could use it in
all fishing situations to hold the fly to the leader, even without a
dropper below.

Simply try it with any hook and mono, and you should see why it ain't
all that great for FFing.

HTH,
R

It is purely to solve the problem described in the original question.
It would be quite pointless using such a rig to attach flies like this
as a matter of course.

If the fly was attached properly using this supposedly-new loop system,
the presence or absence of a dropper - hint - on the tag end - would not
matter. What you are making with this "system" is a bass-akwards
quasi-trotline with materials and a fishing style wholly unsuited to
such. If one is determined to use loops, there are methods - snell the
drop and use a loop-through in the leader through the loop in the snell
of the drop...no, I don't recommend it overall, but...

Nobody with any sense would even consider it................

If considering it without a dropper is showing a lack of sense, doing it
with one shows even less sense because, for one, something taking the
dropper in such a rig will make the "system" all the more iffy.

Again, all anyone has to do is rig this up with any line and hook (no
need for the dropper) to see the problems.

Ah, I see.......... never mind.

If you saw, you'd have never suggested this supposedly-new "idea"....

Now go back to tossing flies,
Dickie


MC

Dry and dropper question
 

On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:12:29 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

If you want to lock the loop in position more firmly, then take one
side of the loop once or twice around the hook shank, before feeding
the loop over it.

If you get a big fish on the dry, this will kink your line more as it
slides down the leader, but this did not cause me any particular
problems. The biggest problem I had was actually getting the loop
through the eye of some smaller dry flies, which is why I prefer the
leader ring setup as well.

You can also lock the leader ring more firmly using a similar
technique, just thread the loop twice through the ring, before
threading your fly and dropper through the loop. This will still slide
easily if you loosen the loop, but will take a lot more force to slide
it if the loop is tight. Indeed, if you feed it through three times
for instance, it probably wont slide at all unless you loosen the
loop.

I broke wet 6 lb mono trying variations of this, without the ring
sliding at all of course.

However, if I was getting a lot of fish on the dry fly, I would take
the nymph off, and fish a pure dry fly set up anyway.

Um, so let's recap, shall we...this FAB-U-LOUS NEW!!! idea of yours is
perfect, except for those fishing for, well, anything and using, well,
anything, while doing, well, anything, under, well, any conditions...but
you've had, well, not really much success with it...yeah, boy, sounds
like a real winner you got there...

Sheesh,
Dickie

TL
MC

Dry and dropper question
 

On May 2, 7:05 pm, wrote:

Now go back to tossing flies,
Dickie



Sure, why not? You can just carry on tossing off.............

MC