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-   -   OT, political: Move on, Bush. (http://www.fishingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=3812)

riverman February 26th, 2004 01:05 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
I've been reading the campaign threads, and thinking about the National
Guard years, the staged photo op on the Aircraft carrier, the opportunistic
news reports about Osama Bin Laden, the changing story about WMD and the
like, and trying to get a solid grip on my feelings about Bush and the
current campaign. And trying to figure out why it seems so significant, why
I give Bush supporter's hollow arguments no credibility; even worse; feel
that they are proudly proclaiming their allegience to a new form of evil
empire, right here in America, right smack dab in the middle of what should
be the world's new shining city on the hill, but is rapidly becoming a
moral-less ghetto.

Its cronyism, plain and simple. The rub-it-in-your-face type of cronyism,
spoiled-rich-kid cronyism, the type that leaves you feeling betrayed,
violated and ruthlessly excluded. Its gangsterism, bullyism, and it is far
too similar to things I have seen in places that the US has prided itself in
being as unlike as is physically possible. But now it is us, and I am
ashamed.

The Russian Thugs who dominate the Baltics are cronys, the worst kind. The
Untouchables. They push the local businesses out, and joyride through the
economy, keeping the wealth in their own pockets, living at standards
unattainable by honest workers. And they gloat in public about it; drive
their BMWs into the ground and pay cash for another, wear ungodly expensive
clothing, live ruthlessly lavish lifestyles, and get a sadistic kick out of
how much pleasure they derive from the harm they do to others. They live by
the Golden Rule: he who has the gold, makes the rules, meanwhile they are
protected by the headlock their clan has on the economy, the police, the
courts. The bedroom deals that companies like Enron and Halliburton made
with Bush and Cheny, and are now getting away with is exactly the same
thing. Pillage and run, and laugh gleefully while the government protects
you, and even shares in your loot. The Golden Rule. And Bush is letting,
even making, it happen. The Untouchables.

Africa is full of leaders who have devistated their countries for their own
benefit, and feed them hyperbole and rhetoric while people starve and
economies cave in. Cronyism is rife he good-intentioned people gain
power, then fill the government offices and posts with friends and cronys
who are not necessarily the best person for the job, but are certainly the
best person at getting the boss re-elected, richer, or more perks and
priviledges. They get used to the perks, then start padding their pockets.
Take a democratic country, and start changing the laws. Rig, suspend or
stuff elections, eliminate opponents, start a war to give the people an
opiate, and once you have enough power to control the situation, use that
power to change the ground rules so that no one can displace you. In a
tyrant-savvy continent like Africa, it takes a very intelligent man to
become a power tyrant and crony. In a naive and trusting place like the US,
we just let them do it because its the last thing we'd expect. To have let
Bush implement such tyrannical and civil rights-violating rules as are
encompassed in the Patriot Act was negligent; to endorse it is treasonous.

You can always tell when a kid is lying to you: they keep changing their
story. Bush changes his story as fast as a kid caught shoplifting. First,
there were weapons; we had to start a war or we'd all be killed in our sleep
by nerve gases. Then there weren't weapons, but that's suddenly not the
reason we went to war. Then there were weapons programs, or the potential
for weapons programs. Now, it has nothing to do with weapons: he was an evil
man and had to go. For gods sake, lets be honest: we supported the war
because we wanted revenge. We wanted to kick someones ass for crashing
planes into the WTC, and Osama Bin Laden escaped us and Bush didn't know
where to go from there, so Rumsfield led him by the nose to implement a plan
he had drawn up years before, but could not implement. Bush fabricated or
fell for some tripe about WMD, led the gullible Americans by their Patriotic
Nerve right into battle, against the advice of dozens of more experienced,
more wise world leaders. Then it started backfiring, and he started changing
his story, and now tries to deny responsibility. In every business, being
the one who is 'responsible' means exactly that. Your guys give you false
information and you act on it, you're responsible. Time to fall on your
sword. But he won't, why not? Because he isn't fit to be a world leader, and
does not have the leadership skills or the intellect to make complex
decisions, and instead tries to drag us all down to his own level of
simplicity. Funny thing, is that many of us seem quite willing to go there.

You can tell the type of man a person is by looking at how they grew up.
During the younger days, when he should have been working hard at school,
developing his leadership training in the military or the Guard, and honing
his business acumen in the School of Hard Knocks and a Level Playing Field,
he was out partying, earning Cs, getting drunk or coked up, dodging his
responsibilities (there's that word again), having his ass covered by his
dad, and developing a network of cronies. Clever cronies that could later
use him as their tool to manipulate the American people so badly that they
would start two wars, alienate their global allies, tear up hard-won
environmental treaties, throw away civil rights, and give their hard-earned
retirement accounts to people who already have a hell of a lot more than
their share.

I have never felt so disenfranchised by my government as I do now. I have
never
felt that my president was so out of touch with the lifestyles and needs of
common
Americans as I do now, and I have never in my life expected that my
President would be a man
whom I could beat on an SAT exam.

Americans always tend to support their president: we see the presidency as
an indication of our liberty, our freedoms. Its the Presidency we support,

let's throw this self-serving, lying, responsibility-dodging, overpampered
spoiled rich kid out of office, and his cronies with him.

--riverman




Larry February 26th, 2004 02:26 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 


riverman wrote:


Americans always tend to support their president: we see the presidency as
an indication of our liberty, our freedoms. Its the Presidency we support,
let's throw this self-serving, lying, responsibility-dodging, overpampered
spoiled rich kid out of office, and his cronies with him.


'Nuff said....

Larry


Ken Fortenberry February 26th, 2004 02:51 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
riverman wrote:
...
Americans always tend to support their president: we see the presidency as
an indication of our liberty, our freedoms. Its the Presidency we support,

let's throw this self-serving, lying, responsibility-dodging, overpampered
spoiled rich kid out of office, and his cronies with him.


Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.

--
Ken Fortenberry


Tim J. February 26th, 2004 03:10 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
riverman wrote:
...
Americans always tend to support their president: we see the presidency as
an indication of our liberty, our freedoms. Its the Presidency we support,

let's throw this self-serving, lying, responsibility-dodging, overpampered
spoiled rich kid out of office, and his cronies with him.


Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.


Are they still easily bamboozled when a liberal Dem is elected, or do just the
smart ones vote in these circumstances? ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



rw February 26th, 2004 03:13 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.


You are so right. Even when they do vote, they do stupid things like
voting for Ralph Nader.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Ken Fortenberry February 26th, 2004 03:39 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Tim J. wrote:

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...

Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.


Are they still easily bamboozled when a liberal Dem is elected, or do just the
smart ones vote in these circumstances? ;-)


There are a lot of good reasons for a smart person to vote for Bush & Co.
For instance, if you earn over $500,000 a year, depend on the government
for sweetheart contracts and want to get filthy rich without bothersome
environmental regulations or being hassled by commie-symp union folks,
there's only one way for you to vote. I fully understand why these folks
vote the way they do and they are not easily bamboozled.

--
Ken Fortenberry


Scott Seidman February 26th, 2004 03:47 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Ken Fortenberry wrote in
m:

Tim J. wrote:

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...

Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.


Are they still easily bamboozled when a liberal Dem is elected, or do
just the smart ones vote in these circumstances? ;-)


There are a lot of good reasons for a smart person to vote for Bush &
Co. For instance, if you earn over $500,000 a year, depend on the
government for sweetheart contracts and want to get filthy rich
without bothersome environmental regulations or being hassled by
commie-symp union folks, there's only one way for you to vote. I fully
understand why these folks vote the way they do and they are not
easily bamboozled.


Good points. Some might also be constantly butting up against those nasty
civil rights inconveniences.

Scott

Charlie Choc February 26th, 2004 03:54 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
On 26 Feb 2004 15:47:17 GMT, Scott Seidman
wrote:

Good points. Some might also be constantly butting up against those nasty
civil rights inconveniences.

Aw now, Bush went out of his way to stop by for an MLK photo-op on his
way to a fund raiser here. How can he not be all about civil rights?
--
Charlie...

RDL February 26th, 2004 05:47 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Oh please, you want "John Kerry" in office to deal with the ongoing
terrorist's crap? You vote for him, and I'll cancel your vote!



What a load of nonsense!



Richard




"riverman" wrote in message
...
I've been reading the campaign threads, and thinking about the National
Guard years, the staged photo op on the Aircraft carrier, the

opportunistic
news reports about Osama Bin Laden, the changing story about WMD and the
like, and trying to get a solid grip on my feelings about Bush and the
current campaign. And trying to figure out why it seems so significant,

why
I give Bush supporter's hollow arguments no credibility; even worse; feel
that they are proudly proclaiming their allegience to a new form of evil
empire, right here in America, right smack dab in the middle of what

should
be the world's new shining city on the hill, but is rapidly becoming a
moral-less ghetto.

Its cronyism, plain and simple. The rub-it-in-your-face type of cronyism,
spoiled-rich-kid cronyism, the type that leaves you feeling betrayed,
violated and ruthlessly excluded. Its gangsterism, bullyism, and it is far
too similar to things I have seen in places that the US has prided itself

in
being as unlike as is physically possible. But now it is us, and I am
ashamed.

The Russian Thugs who dominate the Baltics are cronys, the worst kind. The
Untouchables. They push the local businesses out, and joyride through the
economy, keeping the wealth in their own pockets, living at standards
unattainable by honest workers. And they gloat in public about it; drive
their BMWs into the ground and pay cash for another, wear ungodly

expensive
clothing, live ruthlessly lavish lifestyles, and get a sadistic kick out

of
how much pleasure they derive from the harm they do to others. They live

by
the Golden Rule: he who has the gold, makes the rules, meanwhile they are
protected by the headlock their clan has on the economy, the police, the
courts. The bedroom deals that companies like Enron and Halliburton made
with Bush and Cheny, and are now getting away with is exactly the same
thing. Pillage and run, and laugh gleefully while the government protects
you, and even shares in your loot. The Golden Rule. And Bush is letting,
even making, it happen. The Untouchables.

Africa is full of leaders who have devistated their countries for their

own
benefit, and feed them hyperbole and rhetoric while people starve and
economies cave in. Cronyism is rife he good-intentioned people gain
power, then fill the government offices and posts with friends and cronys
who are not necessarily the best person for the job, but are certainly the
best person at getting the boss re-elected, richer, or more perks and
priviledges. They get used to the perks, then start padding their pockets.
Take a democratic country, and start changing the laws. Rig, suspend or
stuff elections, eliminate opponents, start a war to give the people an
opiate, and once you have enough power to control the situation, use that
power to change the ground rules so that no one can displace you. In a
tyrant-savvy continent like Africa, it takes a very intelligent man to
become a power tyrant and crony. In a naive and trusting place like the

US,
we just let them do it because its the last thing we'd expect. To have let
Bush implement such tyrannical and civil rights-violating rules as are
encompassed in the Patriot Act was negligent; to endorse it is treasonous.

You can always tell when a kid is lying to you: they keep changing their
story. Bush changes his story as fast as a kid caught shoplifting. First,
there were weapons; we had to start a war or we'd all be killed in our

sleep
by nerve gases. Then there weren't weapons, but that's suddenly not the
reason we went to war. Then there were weapons programs, or the potential
for weapons programs. Now, it has nothing to do with weapons: he was an

evil
man and had to go. For gods sake, lets be honest: we supported the war
because we wanted revenge. We wanted to kick someones ass for crashing
planes into the WTC, and Osama Bin Laden escaped us and Bush didn't know
where to go from there, so Rumsfield led him by the nose to implement a

plan
he had drawn up years before, but could not implement. Bush fabricated or
fell for some tripe about WMD, led the gullible Americans by their

Patriotic
Nerve right into battle, against the advice of dozens of more experienced,
more wise world leaders. Then it started backfiring, and he started

changing
his story, and now tries to deny responsibility. In every business, being
the one who is 'responsible' means exactly that. Your guys give you false
information and you act on it, you're responsible. Time to fall on your
sword. But he won't, why not? Because he isn't fit to be a world leader,

and
does not have the leadership skills or the intellect to make complex
decisions, and instead tries to drag us all down to his own level of
simplicity. Funny thing, is that many of us seem quite willing to go

there.

You can tell the type of man a person is by looking at how they grew up.
During the younger days, when he should have been working hard at school,
developing his leadership training in the military or the Guard, and

honing
his business acumen in the School of Hard Knocks and a Level Playing

Field,
he was out partying, earning Cs, getting drunk or coked up, dodging his
responsibilities (there's that word again), having his ass covered by his
dad, and developing a network of cronies. Clever cronies that could later
use him as their tool to manipulate the American people so badly that they
would start two wars, alienate their global allies, tear up hard-won
environmental treaties, throw away civil rights, and give their

hard-earned
retirement accounts to people who already have a hell of a lot more than
their share.

I have never felt so disenfranchised by my government as I do now. I have
never
felt that my president was so out of touch with the lifestyles and needs

of
common
Americans as I do now, and I have never in my life expected that my
President would be a man
whom I could beat on an SAT exam.

Americans always tend to support their president: we see the presidency as
an indication of our liberty, our freedoms. Its the Presidency we

support,

let's throw this self-serving, lying, responsibility-dodging, overpampered
spoiled rich kid out of office, and his cronies with him.

--riverman






David Snedeker February 26th, 2004 06:49 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"RDL" wrote in message
m...
Oh please, you want "John Kerry" in office to deal with the ongoing
terrorist's crap? You vote for him, and I'll cancel your vote!

What a load of nonsense!

Is that you Dean? If so . . .

Oh come on Richard, lets not pretend that national security or democracy has
anything to do with your vote. You have made plain on many occasions your
preference for feudalism, oligarchy, and crony capitalism. That's what
ally's you and your Okie fascists to Bush. "Cancel your vote" ? . . . what
a joke! What you're more likely to do is figure out how to siphon money to
the RNCs dirty tricks affiliates. That would be more true to form.

Dave
War Profiteers should be Shot



Bill P February 26th, 2004 07:13 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...

SNIP

Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve.

SNIP

Ken Fortenberry

Truer words were never spoken! American apathy is running about 70% so
unless we get out the vote of 90% or better (collectively) we have absolute
NO ROOM TO BITCH!

It appears that as long as the average american joe cares only for his 40Hrs
each of employment and TV, some kind of assinie "ball" sports every weekend,
a 6-pak, and a car in the garage... he just doesn't seem to give a ****!!!

GET UR ASS OUT THERE IN NOVEMBER AND EFFIN' VOTE!! Demo or Republican,
VOTE!!!

Back to lurk mode....
Bill




slenon February 26th, 2004 09:08 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.
Ken Fortenberry


The Apocalypse clock just ticked away another minute. I find myself
somewhat in agreement with Fortenberry.

But instead of bemoaning the fact, how do all of us act to get new voters
involved and older apathetic voters back into the habit of voting?

We can sit and complain, snipe and bitch all day long from now until
November. But if we don't personally find someway to get people back to the
polls, we've dropped a bit of the ball and shouldered a bit of the blame
ourselves.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm




Tim J. February 26th, 2004 09:35 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"slenon" wrote...
Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.
Ken Fortenberry


The Apocalypse clock just ticked away another minute. I find myself
somewhat in agreement with Fortenberry.


You poor sap. ;-)

But instead of bemoaning the fact, how do all of us act to get new voters
involved and older apathetic voters back into the habit of voting?

We can sit and complain, snipe and bitch all day long from now until
November. But if we don't personally find someway to get people back to the
polls, we've dropped a bit of the ball and shouldered a bit of the blame
ourselves.


rant I don't feel responsible in the least for other people not voting. Anyone
who has half a brain and sees the issues we are faced with today should vote and
it's THEIR responsibility to do so - not mine. Two of my children aren't
registered to vote, and *that* ****es me off. One of them like to talk about
political topics, but I refuse to discuss anything with him. If a person isn't
voting, I could care less what they have to say about politics.

I registered to vote at 18 and have voted in every state and national election
since. I just don't understand the apathy. Regardless of how lousy the two or
three candidates are put forward every few years, it's better to vote for the
lesser of two evils than not at all, and then bitch about the results
afterwards. \rant
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



Ken Fortenberry February 26th, 2004 09:36 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
David Snedeker wrote:

Is that you Dean? If so . . .


Nah, it's not him. The poster formerly known as Dicky Dean is in
a jail in New Jersey awaiting a psychiatric evaluation.

http://tinyurl.com/3xeud

--
Ken Fortenberry




Bill P February 26th, 2004 09:40 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"slenon" wrote in message
. com...
Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.
Ken Fortenberry


The Apocalypse clock just ticked away another minute. I find myself
somewhat in agreement with Fortenberry.

But instead of bemoaning the fact, how do all of us act to get new voters
involved and older apathetic voters back into the habit of voting?

We can sit and complain, snipe and bitch all day long from now until
November. But if we don't personally find someway to get people back to

the
polls, we've dropped a bit of the ball and shouldered a bit of the blame
ourselves.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69


SNIP

Yes indeed!!! And I've been bitching for nearly 50 years now at those lazy,
apathetic slobs. I especially love it when I, after THEIR ****ing and
moaning about the administration in power, ask them if they voted in the
last election. When I get a negative answer my comment is, immediate and
cynical: "Then you got just who and what you deserved!! I may or may not
agree with your politics but I damned well have shown you one of the biggest
reasons this country is goin' to hell in a handbasket!" No one has ever
give me any crap back about it either!!

Please get out and VOTE!!

Cheers to y'all....
Bill P. Phx.Az



Tim J. February 26th, 2004 09:48 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote...
David Snedeker wrote:

Is that you Dean? If so . . .


Nah, it's not him. The poster formerly known as Dicky Dean is in
a jail in New Jersey awaiting a psychiatric evaluation.

http://tinyurl.com/3xeud


SPLORK!
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



slenon February 26th, 2004 10:13 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
I registered to vote at 18 and have voted in every state and national
election
since. I just don't understand the apathy. Regardless of how lousy the two

or
three candidates are put forward every few years, it's better to vote for

the
lesser of two evils than not at all, and then bitch about the results
afterwards. \rant
Tim


Like you, I vote in every election and I fail to see why anyone chooses to
fail to exercise that privilege. I've heard all the arguments that are
currently in use, too busy, too long a line, lost my card, the system's
rigged against ( fill in ______). To me, they all are invalid and translate
as "stupid/don't care."

I'll write my own name in if I can't stomach a person running unopposed.

It was always my understanding that if you don't vote, you have no right to
bitch about the outcome or the actions of the people elected. Most of the
time I vote for losing candidates in major elections. But it keeps the
winners from claiming unanimous victories.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm




Jeff Taylor February 26th, 2004 10:40 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...

"he defecated in the diaper and fled on foot"

Lost my afternoon pop on that one... :)

Jeff T.



daytripper February 26th, 2004 11:41 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:13:44 GMT, "slenon"
wrote:

I registered to vote at 18 and have voted in every state and national

election
since. I just don't understand the apathy. Regardless of how lousy the two

or
three candidates are put forward every few years, it's better to vote for

the
lesser of two evils than not at all, and then bitch about the results
afterwards. \rant
Tim


Like you, I vote in every election and I fail to see why anyone chooses to
fail to exercise that privilege. I've heard all the arguments that are
currently in use, too busy, too long a line, lost my card, the system's
rigged against ( fill in ______). To me, they all are invalid and translate
as "stupid/don't care."

I'll write my own name in if I can't stomach a person running unopposed.

It was always my understanding that if you don't vote, you have no right to
bitch about the outcome or the actions of the people elected. Most of the
time I vote for losing candidates in major elections. But it keeps the
winners from claiming unanimous victories.


If nothing else, the Current Regime appears to be doing all it can to
stimulate the turnout in November.

Ashcroft just filed for court orders demanding access to medical records from
Planned Parenthood clinics across the country...

/daytripper ()

[email protected] February 27th, 2004 02:51 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:10:26 -0500, "Tim J."
wrote:


Are they still easily bamboozled when a liberal Dem is elected.


Yep. Been there, too. Got bamboozled about equally by both parties.
Very seldom vote for either party now, going instead to the splinter
parties.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Ken Fortenberry February 27th, 2004 02:52 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
rw wrote:

You are so right. Even when they do vote, they do stupid things like
voting for Ralph Nader.


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0226-06.htm


Larry February 27th, 2004 03:54 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

Truer words were never spoken! American apathy is running about 70% so
unless we get out the vote of 90% or better (collectively) we have absolute
NO ROOM TO BITCH!


GET UR ASS OUT THERE IN NOVEMBER AND EFFIN' VOTE!! Demo or Republican,
VOTE!!!


Try 85%...

If my memoryt serves me well, the turnout n the last Presidential
election was somewhere between 13-17% in most States.


rw February 27th, 2004 04:18 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Larry wrote:

If my memoryt serves me well, the turnout n the last Presidential
election was somewhere between 13-17% in most States.


I'm afraid your aging memory is serving you no better than the rest of
your decrepit physical state. Voter turnout in the 2000 Presidential
election ranged from a high of 68.8% (Minnesota) to a low of 41%
(Hawaii). The median exceeded 50%.

In the last election in Stanley, in November, we had 71 voters out of a
total of population (by census) of 100.

This breast-beating over low voter turnout is stupid. Plenty of people
vote. I predict that the turnout in 2004 will exceed that of 2000,
mainly because people are so ****ed off at Bush.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw February 27th, 2004 04:20 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

rw wrote:


You are so right. Even when they do vote, they do stupid things like
voting for Ralph Nader.



http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0226-06.htm


The guy is voting for Kerry to spite Clinton? Give me a break. The
reason to vote for Kerry is to spite Bush.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Mike Connor February 27th, 2004 04:31 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0226-06.htm


The guy is voting for Kerry to spite Clinton? Give me a break. The
reason to vote for Kerry is to spite Bush.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


No wonder you end up with such a clueless bunch. People here vote for
somebody in the hope that this will result in a better government.

TL
MC



Larry L February 27th, 2004 06:17 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"rw" wrote

..

I'm afraid your aging memory is serving you no better than the rest of
your decrepit physical state.


Since my state is known to be decrepit, I fear you may think that I am the
Larry to whom you are replying .... I'm not, ( but I am the decrepit one )




Charlie Choc February 27th, 2004 10:57 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 05:31:17 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

No wonder you end up with such a clueless bunch. People here vote for
somebody in the hope that this will result in a better government.

The nominating process here eliminates that possibility.
--
Charlie...

Tim J. February 27th, 2004 11:42 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Charlie Choc" wrote...
"Mike Connor" wrote:

No wonder you end up with such a clueless bunch. People here vote for
somebody in the hope that this will result in a better government.

The nominating process here eliminates that possibility.


Exactly. By the time we weed out anyone who has ever had an unpaid parking
ticket, smoked a joint, or had one too many beers, we're left with a surreal
bunch of wussies and/or liars. It seems that voters, too, are unable to recall
their past.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj



rw February 27th, 2004 02:06 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Larry L wrote:
"rw" wrote

.

I'm afraid your aging memory is serving you no better than the rest of
your decrepit physical state.



Since my state is known to be decrepit, I fear you may think that I am the
Larry to whom you are replying .... I'm not, ( but I am the decrepit one )


Yes, I thought I was replying the Decrepit Larry. I guess it was just
Forgetful Larry. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw February 27th, 2004 02:33 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Mike Connor wrote:
"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0226-06.htm


The guy is voting for Kerry to spite Clinton? Give me a break. The
reason to vote for Kerry is to spite Bush.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.



No wonder you end up with such a clueless bunch. People here vote for
somebody in the hope that this will result in a better government.


They sure blew it in in 1932.

More recently, the Kohl government was mired in financial scandal.

If, by any chance, you're talking about Great Britain, Tony Blair may
not be quite a big a liar as Bush, but he's a more facile one.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Mike Connor February 27th, 2004 03:13 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP
They sure blew it in in 1932.

More recently, the Kohl government was mired in financial scandal.

If, by any chance, you're talking about Great Britain, Tony Blair may
not be quite a big a liar as Bush, but he's a more facile one.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Oh they are all liars and cheats, it is extremely naive to expect otherwise,
it is basically a prerequisite for the job. This is not too bad as long as
they donīt do too much damage before they get thrown out again in favour of
the next totally useless bunch.

One must be grateful that some of the checks and controls in the system
prevent them from doing far worse.

This is inherent in a capitalist democracy. Like just about everybody else,
they strive to gain money and power, this is what they have been conditioned
to do. This is their main aim, "governing for the people" is at best
secondary. It is absurd to expect anything else.

TL
MC




rw February 27th, 2004 03:23 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Mike Connor wrote:
"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP

They sure blew it in in 1932.

More recently, the Kohl government was mired in financial scandal.

If, by any chance, you're talking about Great Britain, Tony Blair may
not be quite a big a liar as Bush, but he's a more facile one.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.



Oh they are all liars and cheats, it is extremely naive to expect otherwise,
it is basically a prerequisite for the job. This is not too bad as long as
they donīt do too much damage before they get thrown out again in favour of
the next totally useless bunch.

One must be grateful that some of the checks and controls in the system
prevent them from doing far worse.

This is inherent in a capitalist democracy. Like just about everybody else,
they strive to gain money and power, this is what they have been conditioned
to do. This is their main aim, "governing for the people" is at best
secondary. It is absurd to expect anything else.


Virtually every election is a choice between the lesser of two evils. I
don't trust any politician, but that doesn't mean I think our choices
between them don't matter. Some are worse than others. You have to keep
their feet to the fire. That's what elections are for.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Mike Connor February 27th, 2004 03:40 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"rw" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..
SNIP
Virtually every election is a choice between the lesser of two evils. I
don't trust any politician, but that doesn't mean I think our choices
between them don't matter. Some are worse than others. You have to keep
their feet to the fire. That's what elections are for.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


Indeed, I have no argument with that, although there may well be more than
two evils involved.

Political and other standards in government have always been abysmal, it is
the nature of the beast. Even a few people with honesty and integrity,
assuming they ever got elected, (which is unlikely as the system actually
supports liars and cheats), are not going to change much.

Most politicians have two main aims, the first one is gaining power, and the
second one is retaining it at any cost. Money, and all the other stuff are
basically secondary, and the welfare of the people is way down the list
somewhere.

The old adage that "people seeking positions of power, should be
disqualified on those very grounds", is as valid as ever. I always forget
who said it, ( Some ancient greek philosopher, whose name constantly escapes
me). Things have not changed much since then.

TL
MC




slenon February 27th, 2004 04:25 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
rw:
Virtually every election is a choice between the lesser of two evils. I
don't trust any politician, but that doesn't mean I think our choices
between them don't matter. Some are worse than others. You have to keep
their feet to the fire. That's what elections are for.


Elections, and once upon a time, the free press. Now the legitimate press
is too busy covering celebrity affairs to dig up and verify much real dirt
on politicians.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm




slenon February 27th, 2004 04:27 PM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Ashcroft just filed for court orders demanding access to medical records
from
Planned Parenthood clinics across the country...
/daytripper ()


When all is said and done, Ashcroft will turn out to be the worst thing that
Bush II has unleashed upon this nation. Too bad he wasn't a snake handler,
a poor, unlucky one.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Dark Star

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm




Wolfgang February 28th, 2004 04:00 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Bill P" wrote in message
news:fzr%b.1463$h23.769@fed1read06...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
m...

SNIP

Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve.

SNIP

Ken Fortenberry

Truer words were never spoken!......


Bull****. People everywhere deserve good government. What they get, all
too often, is what they ask for.....or not. Obviously, it's not the same
thing.

Wolfgang
power corrupts......how do you excise corruption?



Wolfgang February 28th, 2004 04:08 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Tim J." wrote in message
...

...Two of my children aren't
registered to vote, and *that* ****es me off. One of them like to talk

about
political topics, but I refuse to discuss anything with him. If a person

isn't
voting, I could care less what they have to say about politics.....


I'll do you the favor of assuming that you mean you could care less about
what anyone has to say about politics if they don't vote AND they live in a
place where a vote matters. After all, history (as well as the world within
which we live now) is replete with examples of times and places in which a
vote was less than a shadow of a sham. Of course, that isn't the case here
and now. We got LOTS of good choices, ainna?

Wolfgang
who votes for jesse every time.



Wolfgang February 28th, 2004 04:17 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"slenon" wrote in message
m...

Like you, I vote in every election and I fail to see why anyone chooses to
fail to exercise that privilege.


Most certainly not your first......or your last......failure.

I've heard all the arguments that are
currently in use, too busy, too long a line, lost my card, the system's
rigged against ( fill in ______).


To put it in its simplest terms, you have NEVER heard any of the arguments.

To me, they all are invalid and translate
as "stupid/don't care."


That's because you are stupid.

I'll write my own name in if I can't stomach a person running unopposed.


Thus accomplishing.......what, exactly?

It was always my understanding that if you don't vote, you have no right

to
bitch about the outcome or the actions of the people elected.


That's because you are stupid.

Most of the
time I vote for losing candidates in major elections.


And that is a ringing endorsement for your philosophy because......?

But it keeps the
winners from claiming unanimous victories.


I see. So, you have, single-handedly, prevented unanimity in every major
election since arriving at the age of majority? You must be very proud.

Wolfgang
"...asshole get elected, 'cuz assholes get to vote..."--P.M.



Wolfgang February 28th, 2004 04:21 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 

"Bill P" wrote in message
news:1Jt%b.1482$h23.335@fed1read06...

"slenon" wrote in message
. com...
Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve. I have little faith in my fellow Americans, most of them
don't even bother to vote and the ones who do are easily bamboozled.
Ken Fortenberry


The Apocalypse clock just ticked away another minute. I find myself
somewhat in agreement with Fortenberry.

But instead of bemoaning the fact, how do all of us act to get new

voters
involved and older apathetic voters back into the habit of voting?

We can sit and complain, snipe and bitch all day long from now until
November. But if we don't personally find someway to get people back to

the
polls, we've dropped a bit of the ball and shouldered a bit of the blame
ourselves.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69


SNIP

Yes indeed!!! And I've been bitching for nearly 50 years now at those

lazy,
apathetic slobs. I especially love it when I, after THEIR ****ing and
moaning about the administration in power, ask them if they voted in the
last election. When I get a negative answer my comment is, immediate and
cynical: "Then you got just who and what you deserved!! I may or may not
agree with your politics but I damned well have shown you one of the

biggest
reasons this country is goin' to hell in a handbasket!" No one has ever
give me any crap back about it either!!


Jam it up your ass.....sideways.

Please get out and VOTE!!


No.

Cheers to y'all....
Bill P. Phx.Az


Die.

Wolfgang
well.....another perfect record shattered.....so sad.



Bill P February 28th, 2004 05:19 AM

OT, political: Move on, Bush.
 
Bill P said: "..we get what we deserve..."
Then;
Well said, Myron, but I'm afraid it's true that we get the government
we deserve.

SNIP

Ken Fortenberry

Truer words were never spoken!......


Bull****. People everywhere deserve good government. What they get, all
too often, is what they ask for.....or not. Obviously, it's not the same
thing.

Grin Yes, Wolfgang ~ we do get it, collectively by voting, OR NOT
voting. You might be eloquent with words but your recollection of what I
said seems to suffer CRS. What the thread implied as well as said "People
get what they deserve"... by NOT VOTING! Are you suggesting that we be
"given" good government whether or not we vote for it? Erm... this smacks
of communism or socialism. Engage your brain before slipping your tongue
into gear. This is country is, is what a democracy IS about.
Or, perhaps you imply politicians swop sides after election. This is quite
true, but they can be voted right out again. That's the beauty of this
country and it's constitutional rights.

Yes indeed!!! And I've been bitching for nearly 50 years now at those
lazy, apathetic slobs. I especially love it when I, after THEIR ****ing

and
moaning about the administration in power, ask them if they voted in the
last election. When I get a negative answer my comment is, immediate

and
cynical: "Then you got just who and what you deserved!! I may or may

not
agree with your politics but I damned well have shown you one of the
biggest reasons this country is goin' to hell in a handbasket!" No one

has ever
give me any crap back about it either!!


Jam it up your ass.....sideways.

****Eh, Wolfgang? I'll pass on this as you're being a bit angered by your
childish remark. Or should I say sophomoric.

Please get out and VOTE!!


No.

****NOW you ARE being childish. WE that vote get what we deserve.... again:
"collectively." The majority rules and this is STILL the best country in
the world.

Cheers to y'all....
Bill P. Phx.Az


Die.
****Y'must have been apoplectic by now. Cool down, your lack of control is
being exposed.

Wolfgang
well.....another perfect record shattered.....so sad.

****So smug.... and self engratiating. Ho, hum........Pity.


Bill P




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