Makah Tribe demolishing Wild Stocks

The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year. There
is little doubt that this crime will go unpunnished, and we'll loose
more of this endangered run. Details he

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flyta...ad.php?t=19447

The same tribe is systematically netting all the wild stock headed into
the Hoh river. Details he

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flyta...ad.php?t=19695

The least we can do is boycott restaurants that advertise "Wild Hoh
RiverSteelhead"

Chas
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Chas Wade wrote:
The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year. There
is little doubt that this crime will go unpunnished, and we'll loose
more of this endangered run. Details he

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flyta...ad.php?t=19447

The same tribe is systematically netting all the wild stock headed into
the Hoh river. Details he

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flyta...ad.php?t=19695

The least we can do is boycott restaurants that advertise "Wild Hoh
RiverSteelhead"

Certainly grossly exceeding the allotment should be punished, if possible.

How do you know, though, that the fish being sold to RUI restaurants
were coming from the Makah? There is nothing I could find in the 2nd
thread you referenced to indicate that.

JR

Chas Wade wrote:
The Makah Indian Tribe on the Olympic Peninsula has harvested 20,000
chinook salmon, the entire indian allotment for the 2005 year. There
is little doubt that this crime will go unpunnished, and we'll loose
more of this endangered run. Details he ...

I don't see any details, all I see is a bunch of white boys
whining.

You claim a crime has been committed. Details please. Which
Washington state or federal laws have been broken, what treaty
has been broken ?

--
Ken Fortenberry

"JR" wrote...


Certainly grossly exceeding the allotment should be punished, if possible.



As I understand it, the Makah had a "season" in which they could fish, and
the length of the season was determined to be about the length of time they
would need to catch 500 fish. I think - but don't know for sure - that the
tribe knew they were expected to be able to catch 500 fish in that time. If
that's the case, then it appears they intentionally pulled a fast one.

What will happen now is, the seasons for other fisheries will be adjusted to
compensate for the huge unexpected Makah catch; the overall yearly catch
will remain what it was going to be, everybody else gets to catch fewer
fish.

Ironically, the name "Makah" means "generous with food". I don't know what
their situation is out there, but I'm pretty sure their economy is based on
fishing and whaling. So that big salmon catch might be pretty important to
them. It's a good bet none of it will go to waste.

Way I see it, every time the Ndn's win one, everybody makes a big stink. If
I was out there, I'd go to Neah Bay, look for a restaurant, and order the
salmon. Ain't no point in getting all urinated over a fish.

Timothy Juvenal



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VibraJet wrote:
"JR" wrote...

Certainly grossly exceeding the allotment should be punished, if possible.

As I understand it, the Makah had a "season" in which they could fish, and
the length of the season was determined to be about the length of time they
would need to catch 500 fish. I think - but don't know for sure - that the
tribe knew they were expected to be able to catch 500 fish in that time. If
that's the case, then it appears they intentionally pulled a fast one.

That's more or less how I understand it too.

What will happen now is, the seasons for other fisheries will be adjusted to
compensate for the huge unexpected Makah catch; the overall yearly catch
will remain what it was going to be, everybody else gets to catch fewer
fish.

Yes, it's unlikely that "punishment" will mean any sort of fine or other
legal sanctions. It'll be interesting, though, to see whether there's a
push to change the allotment system to one based on numbers rather than
season length, or whether other tribes find their own ways to sanction
the Makah.

Ironically, the name "Makah" means "generous with food". I don't know what
their situation is out there, but I'm pretty sure their economy is based on
fishing and whaling. So that big salmon catch might be pretty important to
them. It's a good bet none of it will go to waste.

Way I see it, every time the Ndn's win one, everybody makes a big stink. If
I was out there, I'd go to Neah Bay, look for a restaurant, and order the
salmon. Ain't no point in getting all urinated over a fish.

I agree, in general.... *unless* everybody up and decides the "tragedy
of the commons" with regard to salmon ain't no tragedy at all as long as
*they* can exploit loopholes to get "theirs"....

When folks on Westfly and on the forum Chas cited were all worked up
about boycotting restaurants serving Indian-caught wild Hoh salmon, I
posted pretty much the same sentiment, that I'd be more than happy to
eat any restaurant salmon supplied by tribes exercising their lawful
treaty rights.

JR

"VibraJet" wrote in message
...

"JR" wrote...


Certainly grossly exceeding the allotment should be punished, if
possible.



As I understand it, the Makah had a "season" in which they could fish, and
the length of the season was determined to be about the length of time
they
would need to catch 500 fish. I think - but don't know for sure - that
the
tribe knew they were expected to be able to catch 500 fish in that time.
If
that's the case, then it appears they intentionally pulled a fast one.

What will happen now is, the seasons for other fisheries will be adjusted
to
compensate for the huge unexpected Makah catch; the overall yearly catch
will remain what it was going to be, everybody else gets to catch fewer
fish.

Ironically, the name "Makah" means "generous with food". I don't know
what
their situation is out there, but I'm pretty sure their economy is based
on
fishing and whaling. So that big salmon catch might be pretty important
to
them. It's a good bet none of it will go to waste.

Way I see it, every time the Ndn's win one, everybody makes a big stink.
If
I was out there, I'd go to Neah Bay, look for a restaurant, and order the
salmon. Ain't no point in getting all urinated over a fish.


Hm......

I think people sometimes allow themselves to get carried away by their own
interests. This is perfectly natural, of course. I mean, who can blame
folks for wanting to provide for their own families......especially in times
of economic instability.....times when the future can be glimpsed only dimly
through a fog and what little can be seen doesn't look all that
good.....right? Yeah, I can certainly understand that a conscientious
father would, at least occasionally, want to treat his kids to a bit of
fresh salmon......****, I certainly would.....um......if I had any kids.
O.k., so a couple of extra fish have to die in the process. So what? In
the long run, does it really make any difference?

Still, there's always that lingering doubt, isn't there? Hell, Chas's point
may be hard to grasp, but it's always there nevertheless. In situations
like this, I always find it useful to take the situation at hand and push it
to the extreme, just to see where it goes. In this case, for instance, I
might suppose that it's not just a bunch of fish that are at stake. I
might.....oh......I don't know, postulate that the thieving redskins had
been guilty of REALLY "grossly exceeding the allotment"
by.....um.......well, let's say stealing a whole continent.....or two.....or
something. Wouldn't you agree that in such a scenario they "should be
punished, if possible"?

Wolfgang
i know i would.

"JR" wrote in message
...
...I'd be more than happy to eat any restaurant salmon supplied by tribes
exercising their lawful treaty rights.

Now, I ask you, what could possibly be funnier than listening to a white boy
in North America bleating about adherence to treaties?

Wolfgang
seriously.......you guys crack me up!

Wolfgang wrote:

I
might.....oh......I don't know, postulate that the thieving redskins had
been guilty of REALLY "grossly exceeding the allotment"
by.....um.......well, let's say stealing a whole continent.....or two.....or
something. Wouldn't you agree that in such a scenario they "should be
punished, if possible"?

Yep.

Wolfgang wrote:
"JR" wrote in message
...

...I'd be more than happy to eat any restaurant salmon supplied by tribes
exercising their lawful treaty rights.

Now, I ask you, what could possibly be funnier than listening to a white boy
in North America bleating about adherence to treaties?

Wolfgang
seriously.......you guys crack me up!

My assumption was that the Indian caught salmon on the Hoh *were* caught
in adherence to treaty. No bleating involved.

JR

"JR" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

I might.....oh......I don't know, postulate that the thieving redskins
had been guilty of REALLY "grossly exceeding the allotment"
by.....um.......well, let's say stealing a whole continent.....or
two.....or something. Wouldn't you agree that in such a scenario they
"should be punished, if possible"?

Yep.

Sure, sure, it's easy for you to be smug......you with your oh so immaculate
pedigree and your fancy city ways. Well, let me tell you, Bub, when my
family settled this land back in '53 there was nothing here but a bunch of
indolent Snedekers who never did a goddamn thing but invent daylight, food,
water, the cosmos, international banking and the klystron. Hell YES, we
through their asses out!

Wolfgang
who would do it again......in a heartbeat.......treaties be damned.