Suppose...

....you're an Illernoisian, much accustomed to either warm water fishing or a
long drive to cooler, trout populated streams. Suppose further that you had
a close familial relative, perhaps even a brother who lived in or about the
Nashville area. Continuing, suppose you were to meander down I-65 to visit
said familial relative, perhaps with the intent of moseying eastward, nearer
to the mountains of Smokyness, tho not necessarily within the boundaries of
the alluded to park. Consider that there are about six million (plus or
minus a million or so) streams that might bear trout betwixt Nashville and
the aforementioned (afore-alluded?) park. Given that you may have about two
days to enjoy the charms of whichever stream you may choose, which might you
consider for a visit?

I'm not a picky sort -- any water that presents a reasonable (??)
opportunity to: A) enjoy some good to great scenery; and B) have a
reasonable (again, ??) chance to abscond with a piscine Tennessean or two,
or three...(variety unimportant); and C) have either camping (state or
federal land) or a cheap-ass-hotel-with-a-liquor-store-nearby would fill the
need.

Thanks for any suggestions...

Dan

"Daniel-San" (Rot13) wrote in message
.net...
...you're an Illernoisian,
I'm not a picky sort --

-ass-hotel-with-a-liquor-store-nearby would fill the
need.

Thanks for any suggestions...

Dan
Well papa-san, for my money I'd just jump 40 East and take 27 out of
Crossville, this is a pretty drive in itself.. At Tellico I'd take 143 and
enjoy the beautiful Cherahola Skyway until it dumped me out in Robbinsville.
Buy Liquor while still in Tennessee. At that point, you're a free man in
Grham county North Carolina.

When, might or might not one might or might not try or try not this
hypothetical expedition?

john

"asadi" wrote


Well papa-san, for my money I'd just jump 40 East and take 27 out of
Crossville, this is a pretty drive in itself.. At Tellico I'd take 143 and
enjoy the beautiful Cherahola Skyway until it dumped me out in
Robbinsville. Buy Liquor while still in Tennessee. At that point, you're a
free man in Grham county North Carolina.

When, might or might not one might or might not try or try not this
hypothetical expedition?

Thanks for the suggestion, John. The 'expedition' will most likely take
place last week of July -- all depends on the work schedule of the 'close
familial relative'. I have a feeling that with Dave in Nashville, I'll be
spending a fair amount of time with the Tennessee (and Nawth Carolina)
gazeteer...

Dan

Daniel-San wrote:

...you're an Illernoisian, much accustomed to either warm water fishing or a
long drive to cooler, trout populated streams. Suppose further that you had
a close familial relative, perhaps even a brother who lived in or about the
Nashville area. Continuing, suppose you were to meander down I-65 to visit
said familial relative, perhaps with the intent of moseying eastward, nearer
to the mountains of Smokyness, tho not necessarily within the boundaries of
the alluded to park. Consider that there are about six million (plus or
minus a million or so) streams that might bear trout betwixt Nashville and
the aforementioned (afore-alluded?) park. Given that you may have about two
days to enjoy the charms of whichever stream you may choose, which might you
consider for a visit?

I'm not a picky sort -- any water that presents a reasonable (??)
opportunity to: A) enjoy some good to great scenery; and B) have a
reasonable (again, ??) chance to abscond with a piscine Tennessean or two,
or three...(variety unimportant); and C) have either camping (state or
federal land) or a cheap-ass-hotel-with-a-liquor-store-nearby would fill the
need.

John has already covered the NC side of things, so here's a
Tennessee-side alternative: Take I-40 to just outside of Knoxville, and
take the Oak Ridge/Alcoa/Maryville exit. Continue on through Maryville
to Townsend. In Townsend you can find cheap lodging, a liquor store, a
well-stocked grocery store and you'll be on the Little River. Inside
the park you have easy access to the Little River all along the road, as
well as at the Elkmont campground parking lot which is a good place to
begin exploring.

Also, you'll be close to Cades Cove and Abrams Creek. I fished the
"spring creek" section (above the footbridge in the Abram Falls parking
lot) earlier this year, and it was tough fishing (very wary fish and not
much in the way of cover compared to other Smokies streams I've fished).
But, Abrams further along the Falls trail is supposed to be some of
the best fishing in the park. The trail itself is absolutely gorgeous,
whether you fish or not. It's worth it to make the hike to the falls as
well. IIRC, the hike was about 1.5 hours round-trip.

Unfortunately, the Cades Cove loop is a circus; cars were almost
bumper to bumper after about 10:00 a.m. on a *weekday* when we were
there in late March.

So, if I were in the Townsend area for two days, I'd definitely take
one full day for hiking and fishing the Little River above Elkmont. The
other day might be for exploring further into the park. Maybe check out
the Little Pigeon in the Greenbriar area or the Chimneys area, or drive
over Newfound Gap to Bradley Fork on the NC side. Just get a feel for
areas you'll want to return to.

Because you *will* want to return. :-)


Chuck Vance (been there, done that, have the recurring dreams to
prove it)

"Conan The Librarian" wrote ...

John has already covered the NC side of things, so here's a
Tennessee-side alternative: Take I-40 to just outside of Knoxville, and
take the Oak Ridge/Alcoa/Maryville exit. Continue on through Maryville to
Townsend. In Townsend you can find cheap lodging, a liquor store, a
well-stocked grocery store and you'll be on the Little River. Inside the
park you have easy access to the Little River all along the road, as well
as at the Elkmont campground parking lot which is a good place to begin
exploring.

Sure sounds like it...


Also, you'll be close to Cades Cove and Abrams Creek. I fished the
"spring creek" section (above the footbridge in the Abram Falls parking
lot) earlier this year, and it was tough fishing (very wary fish and not
much in the way of cover compared to other Smokies streams I've fished).
But, Abrams further along the Falls trail is supposed to be some of the
best fishing in the park. The trail itself is absolutely gorgeous,
whether you fish or not. It's worth it to make the hike to the falls as
well. IIRC, the hike was about 1.5 hours round-trip.


I'm following you around now on my old Smokys map. This looks G-R-E-A-T.


Unfortunately, the Cades Cove loop is a circus; cars were almost bumper
to bumper after about 10:00 a.m. on a *weekday* when we were there in late
March.

Yeah, the price of the most popular park, I guess. I was there a few years
ago in early March for a BP trip, and Clingman's was insane.


So, if I were in the Townsend area for two days, I'd definitely take
one full day for hiking and fishing the Little River above Elkmont. The
other day might be for exploring further into the park. Maybe check out
the Little Pigeon in the Greenbriar area or the Chimneys area, or drive
over Newfound Gap to Bradley Fork on the NC side. Just get a feel for
areas you'll want to return to.

{{{seeing my future}}} "...you will be spending time with a book.... a
gazeteer..."



Because you *will* want to return. :-)


Amen


Chuck Vance (been there, done that, have the recurring dreams to
prove it)

Thanks for the info, Chuck. Assuming all goes according to the as yet very
vague plans, I'll post pics somewhere.

Dan

Daniel-San wrote:

"Conan The Librarian" wrote ...

Inside the
park you have easy access to the Little River all along the road, as well
as at the Elkmont campground parking lot which is a good place to begin
exploring.

Sure sounds like it...

My only experience there has been that I spent a day on that section
of the Little River last year and a few hours on it earlier this year,
but it's beautiful water, and it also has some willing fish. One thing
I'd advise is to hike for a good distance before you settle in to cover
the water.

I thought I had hiked far enough last year, but came to find out
that I had been following another fisherman upstream all day. I still
caught fish, but I also had some outright refusals, which I never
encountered in the rest of my trip.

That stretch is also relatively open water for the Smokies, meaning
you don't have to crouch and flip/bow-and-arrow/rollcast around
overhanging branches the whole time. You'll actually be able to make
some longer casts if the situation calls for it.

Just to whet your appetite, here's a couple of shots I took last year:

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/little01.jpg

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/little02.jpg

Also, you'll be close to Cades Cove and Abrams Creek. I fished the
"spring creek" section (above the footbridge in the Abram Falls parking
lot) earlier this year, and it was tough fishing (very wary fish and not
much in the way of cover compared to other Smokies streams I've fished).
But, Abrams further along the Falls trail is supposed to be some of the
best fishing in the park. The trail itself is absolutely gorgeous,
whether you fish or not. It's worth it to make the hike to the falls as
well. IIRC, the hike was about 1.5 hours round-trip.

I'm following you around now on my old Smokys map. This looks G-R-E-A-T.

Oh yeah ... if you don't have it, you might want to look into the
National Geographic trails map of the Smokies
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2EF3285D). It's printed on a coated
paper that's waterproof. I carried mine with me all the time.

You can also go to the National Park Service GSMNP page to get a pdf
map of the park that's handy for playing around with. I used it to zoom
in on some areas and get a feel for where the trails ran. I then
printed out some of these and put them in a ziplock to carry in my vest.
See here for the file: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/pphtml/maps.html

Unfortunately, the Cades Cove loop is a circus; cars were almost bumper
to bumper after about 10:00 a.m. on a *weekday* when we were there in late
March.

Yeah, the price of the most popular park, I guess. I was there a few years
ago in early March for a BP trip, and Clingman's was insane.

SWMBO and I made the mistake of going up to Newfound Gap during our
trip in March. There was also some construction work going on in the
parking lot, and it was absolutely ridiculous. You could barely find a
place to park, and you were standing shoulder-to-shoulder at the overlook.

Strangely, when I went in late June last year, there were folks
there, but nothing like this year's crwod.

So, if I were in the Townsend area for two days, I'd definitely take
one full day for hiking and fishing the Little River above Elkmont. The
other day might be for exploring further into the park. Maybe check out
the Little Pigeon in the Greenbriar area or the Chimneys area, or drive
over Newfound Gap to Bradley Fork on the NC side. Just get a feel for
areas you'll want to return to.

{{{seeing my future}}} "...you will be spending time with a book.... a
gazeteer..."

Er, if you're like me, it will be several books, the Delorme for NC,
plus a few topo maps. :-}

But some people think I overdo my prep for these trips. :-)

Thanks for the info, Chuck. Assuming all goes according to the as yet very
vague plans, I'll post pics somewhere.

My pleasure. Just keep in mind that last year's trip was my first
flyfishing trip to that area (though I used to go to the park as a kid).
So I am definitely not an expert. I just did some reading, asked a
bunch of ROFFians, and did some exploring. (And I actually was staying
in Robbinsville all the time. I took a couple of days to explore Big
Snowbird and drove to the park other days.)

And yes, pics would be appreciated. I'm living vicariously right
now through the rest of youse, as it will be next year before I get back
there. Until then I just have to live through these:

The Bradley Fork of the Oconaluftee (this is my wallpaper, and it's
also where I caught the second biggest fish of my trip:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/bradley01.jpg

Newfound Gap looking back into NC:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/newfound.jpg

The view from the Cherohala Skyway near Robbinsville:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/cherohala02.jpg

Just above the lower falls on Big Snowbird:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/snowbirdfalls01.jpg


Chuck Vance (oh, and take a 3-wt. rod if you've got one; about a
7'6" one will do nicely)

"Conan The Librarian" wrote ...
Daniel-San wrote:

"Conan The Librarian" wrote ...

Inside the park you have easy access to the Little River all along the
road, as well as at the Elkmont campground parking lot which is a good
place to begin exploring.

Sure sounds like it...

My only experience there has been that I spent a day on that section of
the Little River last year and a few hours on it earlier this year, but
it's beautiful water, and it also has some willing fish. One thing I'd
advise is to hike for a good distance before you settle in to cover the
water.

I thought I had hiked far enough last year, but came to find out that I
had been following another fisherman upstream all day. I still caught
fish, but I also had some outright refusals, which I never encountered in
the rest of my trip.

That stretch is also relatively open water for the Smokies, meaning you
don't have to crouch and flip/bow-and-arrow/rollcast around overhanging
branches the whole time. You'll actually be able to make some longer
casts if the situation calls for it.


March '03 was a hike up Forney Creek, and then down thru Andrew's Bald.
(Trip report, if you're desperate for some bad writing:
http://forums.backpacker.com/message...ssageID=152946) The whole trip,
my friend and I were kicking ourselves for not having brought and fishing
gear. I'd like to do the trip again -- with the appropriate rod/flyz/etc --
but I don't think we're gonna have time to do a full blown BP trip.



Just to whet your appetite, here's a couple of shots I took last year:

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/little01.jpg

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/little02.jpg

I thought your wife was the photog, and you were the super-mo-dell? Nice
shots.


Also, you'll be close to Cades Cove and Abrams Creek. I fished the
"spring creek" section (above the footbridge in the Abram Falls parking
lot) earlier this year, and it was tough fishing (very wary fish and not
much in the way of cover compared to other Smokies streams I've fished).
But, Abrams further along the Falls trail is supposed to be some of the
best fishing in the park. The trail itself is absolutely gorgeous,
whether you fish or not. It's worth it to make the hike to the falls as
well. IIRC, the hike was about 1.5 hours round-trip.

I'm following you around now on my old Smokys map. This looks G-R-E-A-T.

Oh yeah ... if you don't have it, you might want to look into the
National Geographic trails map of the Smokies
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2EF3285D). It's printed on a coated paper
that's waterproof. I carried mine with me all the time.

Yeppers. Same one. I have TI maps for places I've only contemplated
visiting. Great maps, and with some bit of skill at reading topos, you can
sort of take the trip without going. Well...only if you're a map geek. Not
that there's anything wrong with that.



You can also go to the National Park Service GSMNP page to get a pdf
map of the park that's handy for playing around with. I used it to zoom
in on some areas and get a feel for where the trails ran. I then printed
out some of these and put them in a ziplock to carry in my vest. See here
for the file: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/pphtml/maps.html

Unfortunately, the Cades Cove loop is a circus; cars were almost
bumper to bumper after about 10:00 a.m. on a *weekday* when we were
there in late March.
Yeah, the price of the most popular park, I guess. I was there a few
years ago in early March for a BP trip, and Clingman's was insane.

SWMBO and I made the mistake of going up to Newfound Gap during our
trip in March. There was also some construction work going on in the
parking lot, and it was absolutely ridiculous. You could barely find a
place to park, and you were standing shoulder-to-shoulder at the overlook.

Strangely, when I went in late June last year, there were folks there,
but nothing like this year's crwod.

So, if I were in the Townsend area for two days, I'd definitely take
one full day for hiking and fishing the Little River above Elkmont. The
other day might be for exploring further into the park. Maybe check out
the Little Pigeon in the Greenbriar area or the Chimneys area, or drive
over Newfound Gap to Bradley Fork on the NC side. Just get a feel for
areas you'll want to return to.
{{{seeing my future}}} "...you will be spending time with a book.... a
gazeteer..."

Er, if you're like me, it will be several books, the Delorme for NC,
plus a few topo maps. :-}

Yep.... I take full advantage of the REI map section. I have a collection of
various guides to various activities for various areas. I'm a various guy, I
guess...



But some people think I overdo my prep for these trips. :-)

Not possible. For a BP trip, I've been known to pack, unpack, and repack
multiple times to get the gear load 'just right', culling and adding as
appropriate.


Thanks for the info, Chuck. Assuming all goes according to the as yet
very vague plans, I'll post pics somewhere.

My pleasure. Just keep in mind that last year's trip was my first
flyfishing trip to that area (though I used to go to the park as a kid).
So I am definitely not an expert. I just did some reading, asked a bunch
of ROFFians, and did some exploring. (And I actually was staying in
Robbinsville all the time. I took a couple of days to explore Big
Snowbird and drove to the park other days.)

And yes, pics would be appreciated. I'm living vicariously right now
through the rest of youse, as it will be next year before I get back
there. Until then I just have to live through these:

The Bradley Fork of the Oconaluftee (this is my wallpaper, and it's
also where I caught the second biggest fish of my trip:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/bradley01.jpg

Newfound Gap looking back into NC:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/newfound.jpg

The view from the Cherohala Skyway near Robbinsville:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/cherohala02.jpg

Just above the lower falls on Big Snowbird:
http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/snowbirdfalls01.jpg


Very nice pics. One of these days, I'll have to scan the negs from my trip
and post them somewhere. I'm no pro, but some of those shots are nice.
(Everyone gets lucky, eh?)



Chuck Vance (oh, and take a 3-wt. rod if you've got one; about a
7'6" one will do nicely)

I have a 6'9" and a 7'0", both 4wts. Actually, the 7 footer is a
3/4...hmmm....maybe time to pick up some 3wt WF line.

Thanks again,

Dan

Daniel-San (Rot13) wrote:

"Conan The Librarian" wrote ...

[Lttle River above Elkmont]

That stretch is also relatively open water for the Smokies, meaning you
don't have to crouch and flip/bow-and-arrow/rollcast around overhanging
branches the whole time. You'll actually be able to make some longer
casts if the situation calls for it.

March '03 was a hike up Forney Creek, and then down thru Andrew's Bald.
(Trip report, if you're desperate for some bad writing:
http://forums.backpacker.com/message...ssageID=152946)

Hey, that was a fun read. I even got my map out to follow your
trip.

The whole trip,
my friend and I were kicking ourselves for not having brought and fishing
gear. I'd like to do the trip again -- with the appropriate rod/flyz/etc --
but I don't think we're gonna have time to do a full blown BP trip.

Yeah, you *should* have been kicking yourselves. :-)

IIRC, Ken F. has done the Forney Creek trail, but mentioned that
it's probably not worth the effort given some of the other
possibilities in the area.

Just to whet your appetite, here's a couple of shots I took last year:

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/little01.jpg

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/little02.jpg

I thought your wife was the photog, and you were the super-mo-dell? Nice
shots.

Thanks. She is the artist among the two of us, but I've been
shooting "documentary" shots for much longer than she's even had a
camera (more than a "point-and-shoot").

And yes, I am the super-mo-dell. :-)

Oh yeah ... if you don't have it, you might want to look into the
National Geographic trails map of the Smokies
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2EF3285D). It's printed on a coated paper
that's waterproof. I carried mine with me all the time.

Yeppers. Same one. I have TI maps for places I've only contemplated
visiting. Great maps, and with some bit of skill at reading topos, you can
sort of take the trip without going. Well...only if you're a map geek. Not
that there's anything wrong with that.

Hey, I got mine out this afternoon, and I was reminded of how much I
"saw" before I had even driven to the area. :-)

Er, if you're like me, it will be several books, the Delorme for NC,
plus a few topo maps. :-}

Yep.... I take full advantage of the REI map section. I have a collection of
various guides to various activities for various areas. I'm a various guy, I
guess...

Yah, and I'm a librarian ... at least that's *my* excuse. :-)

But some people think I overdo my prep for these trips. :-)

Not possible. For a BP trip, I've been known to pack, unpack, and repack
multiple times to get the gear load 'just right', culling and adding as
appropriate.

Hey, I do that with just a fishing vest. :-)

[snip of shots from my trip last year]

Very nice pics. One of these days, I'll have to scan the negs from my trip
and post them somewhere. I'm no pro, but some of those shots are nice.
(Everyone gets lucky, eh?)

Scan them and post them if you've got them.

I fully believe that it's hard to take a bad pic in the Smokies.

Chuck Vance (oh, and take a 3-wt. rod if you've got one; about a
7'6" one will do nicely)

I have a 6'9" and a 7'0", both 4wts. Actually, the 7 footer is a
3/4...hmmm....maybe time to pick up some 3wt WF line.

I used my newish TFO "Finesse" 4-wt. 7'9" on my last trip, and it
does quite nicely there. It's a nice slow-action rod that responds
well to a short line/rollcasting, etc.

I woudn't hesitate to use it again.


Chuck Vance (but if I had to choose *one* rod for the streams
there it would probably be a 3-wt. of about 7'6" ... of course, I'm
throwing almost nothing but small dries)

Conan The Librarian wrote:
... In Townsend you can find cheap lodging, a liquor store, a
well-stocked grocery store and you'll be on ...

a good start in most places...

Also, you'll be close to Cades Cove and Abrams Creek.

if you go to cades cove...you'll need the whisky.

I fished the
"spring creek" section (above the footbridge in the Abram Falls parking
lot) earlier this year, and it was tough fishing (very wary fish and not
much in the way of cover compared to other Smokies streams I've fished).
But, Abrams further along the Falls trail is supposed to be some of the
best fishing in the park.

....supposed to be? hmmm.... well, were i a truly selfish person, i'd
direct every person to the tennessee side of the smokies and tell them
to fish abrams. esp. if i knew i'd probably never meet or share a stream
with them. if in fact the best fishing in the eastern u.s. was along the
cades cove loop, i'd not seek it out or direct a friend there. there are
prettier, less frustrating places to go. the traffic just isn't worth it
to me. and it is reported to always have a surfeit of traffic. my
suggestion would be...find a flyshop in townsend, buy some flies (tan
ehc, parachute adams, stimulators) and tippet, tell them your plight and
the kind of fishing you'd like to find. ...

jeff

jeff wrote:

Conan The Librarian wrote:

[Abrams Creek]

I fished the
"spring creek" section (above the footbridge in the Abram Falls parking
lot) earlier this year, and it was tough fishing (very wary fish and not
much in the way of cover compared to other Smokies streams I've fished).
But, Abrams further along the Falls trail is supposed to be some of the
best fishing in the park.

...supposed to be? hmmm.... well, were i a truly selfish person, i'd
direct every person to the tennessee side of the smokies and tell them
to fish abrams. esp. if i knew i'd probably never meet or share a stream
with them. if in fact the best fishing in the eastern u.s. was along the
cades cove loop, i'd not seek it out or direct a friend there. there are
prettier, less frustrating places to go. the traffic just isn't worth it
to me. and it is reported to always have a surfeit of traffic. my
suggestion would be...find a flyshop in townsend, buy some flies (tan
ehc, parachute adams, stimulators) and tippet, tell them your plight and
the kind of fishing you'd like to find. ...

My final suggestion was that if he only had two days he should hit
the Little River and then explore other areas towards the NC side of
the park. I was just acknowledging that there are plenty of folks who
think Abrams is some of the best around. (See Kirk and Lawrence's
books for example, and a bunch of folks on the Southeast Flyfshing
forum for examples.)

Hell, Jeff ... I defer to you on just about anything related to
fishing that area. (Heck, you gave me some of the best advice I got
before my trip to NC last year.) I was just trying to offer some
alternatives within short driving distances from the TN side, and I
don't see how Abrams can be totally ignored. And the hike to the falls
*is* gorgeous, traffic notwithstanding.


Chuck Vance (though I wouldn't plan to go there during tourist
season myself, and I tried to warn him about that)