Sink Tip Line Question

Anyone know if sink-tip lines are rated heavier?
Currently I have a 7wt WF Floating Line. I just purchased an extra
spool for my reel for a sink-tip-line. Would a 7wt sink-tip line cast
heavier than the 7wt WF floating line?
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
Anyone know if sink-tip lines are rated heavier?
Currently I have a 7wt WF Floating Line. I just purchased an extra
spool for my reel for a sink-tip-line. Would a 7wt sink-tip line cast
heavier than the 7wt WF floating line?
-tom
It will cast differently - mainly because of the added pull of lifting it
out of the water rather than off the surface. However, for the same line
weight designation, the first 30' will have the exact same total weight,
whether sinking line, sink tip, or floater. In some brands, the
distribution of the weight in the first 30' may be different between a sink
tip and a floater, while a full sinking line and a floater will have common
distributions.


Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

also if I may add count on adding 15% more backing to you spool to fill it
up, for a 7wt. line. sinking lines are a bit less diameter than a
identical floater I believe.
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:cpMyh.13884$fT1.9179@trndny02...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
Anyone know if sink-tip lines are rated heavier?
Currently I have a 7wt WF Floating Line. I just purchased an extra
spool for my reel for a sink-tip-line. Would a 7wt sink-tip line cast
heavier than the 7wt WF floating line?
-tom
It will cast differently - mainly because of the added pull of lifting it
out of the water rather than off the surface. However, for the same line
weight designation, the first 30' will have the exact same total weight,
whether sinking line, sink tip, or floater. In some brands, the
distribution of the weight in the first 30' may be different between a
sink tip and a floater, while a full sinking line and a floater will have
common distributions.


Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

I stand corrected my reference was for a full sinking line. Tom talking sink
tip.line, the difference doesn't matter for backing on the spool.
"G. J. Z." wrote in message
news:%EQyh.11657$_d4.183@trndny05...
also if I may add count on adding 15% more backing to you spool to fill it
up, for a 7wt. line. sinking lines are a bit less diameter than a
identical floater I believe.
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:cpMyh.13884$fT1.9179@trndny02...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
Anyone know if sink-tip lines are rated heavier?
Currently I have a 7wt WF Floating Line. I just purchased an extra
spool for my reel for a sink-tip-line. Would a 7wt sink-tip line cast
heavier than the 7wt WF floating line?
-tom
It will cast differently - mainly because of the added pull of lifting it
out of the water rather than off the surface. However, for the same line
weight designation, the first 30' will have the exact same total weight,
whether sinking line, sink tip, or floater. In some brands, the
distribution of the weight in the first 30' may be different between a
sink tip and a floater, while a full sinking line and a floater will have
common distributions.


Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

"G. J. Z." wrote in message
news:yZRyh.3074$da1.2334@trndny03...
I stand corrected my reference was for a full sinking line. Tom talking
sink tip.line, the difference doesn't matter for backing on the spool.
"G. J. Z." wrote in message
news:%EQyh.11657$_d4.183@trndny05...
also if I may add count on adding 15% more backing to you spool to fill
it up, for a 7wt. line. sinking lines are a bit less diameter than a
identical floater I believe.
"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:cpMyh.13884$fT1.9179@trndny02...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
Anyone know if sink-tip lines are rated heavier?
Currently I have a 7wt WF Floating Line. I just purchased an extra
spool for my reel for a sink-tip-line. Would a 7wt sink-tip line cast
heavier than the 7wt WF floating line?
-tom
It will cast differently - mainly because of the added pull of lifting
it out of the water rather than off the surface. However, for the same
line weight designation, the first 30' will have the exact same total
weight, whether sinking line, sink tip, or floater. In some brands, the
distribution of the weight in the first 30' may be different between a
sink tip and a floater, while a full sinking line and a floater will
have common distributions.


Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR


Thanks Bob and Gerard,
I'm going to look at some sink-tip lines, try to see if I could find a used
one on a reel that I could try out. I'm sure I could get a good feel of the
line once I cast it.

Gerard since you're the master fly tier, do you use sinking line or sink-tip
line.
I'm getting mixed users in favor of split shots vs. sinking line. I have
been currently using split-shots about 18" before the fly, weight depending
on current and depth. I've never tried a sinking line or sink-tip line, very
curious if it makes a difference in a more natural presentation to the fish.
fwiw,
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
snip
I'm getting mixed users in favor of split shots vs. sinking line. I have
been currently using split-shots about 18" before the fly, weight
depending on current and depth. I've never tried a sinking line or
sink-tip line, very curious if it makes a difference in a more natural
presentation to the fish.
fwiw,
-tom



Tom,

It depends on the type of water conditions and type of presentation you are
trying to make.

I find full sink tip lines only useful in still waters. Sink tips are useful
in both still waters and streams. In streams, I find their best use to be
for any fly that will be fished on a sub-surface swing, or will be given
some action on the retrieve (e.g. streamers, wet flies, & soft hackles). For
most dead drift situations and, especially if fishing narrow slots with
nymphs, a floating line with weight on the leader will give a better
presentation.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

I'm getting mixed users in favor of split shots vs. sinking line. I have
been currently using split-shots about 18" before the fly, weight
depending on current and depth. I've never tried a sinking line or
sink-tip line, very curious if it makes a difference in a more natural
presentation to the fish.
fwiw,

Have you considered Poly-Leaders? They were (are?) sold in 5' and 10'
lengths with floating, hover, intermediate, slow sink and fast sink
configurations. They take the place of the leader and you tie a 3-4' section
of tippet to the end. They aren't cheap but for many they are a good
substitute for springing for sinking fly lines and spare spools.

Tom

Bob is right.

I know of an very good nymph fisherman who doesn't use sinking lines and
thinks its bull.

He says you'll never detect a strike in deep water. I think he meant with
any line.He just dosen't fish deep water.

It seems on a floating line on longer cast the floating section can act as a
strike indicator, while sinking line you have little indication of a strike
except by feel. and of course a floating strike indicator would defeat the
purpose of a sink tip or full sinking line.

But I use one for the following condition and have caught some hefty browns
doing it.

And think it works better in this case with a full sinking line than a
floater. It gets the nymph closer to the bottom faster longer more
efficiently.

I have not had much experience in still water but this case could be
considered very slow deep water.



Well-said Bob

Some of my experiences and I by no means an expert.

I use my uniform sink line on the slow long deep flats of the East branch of
the Delaware, fishing across and down stream on a short leader no more than
4 or 5 ft. and I'm talking 5 to 12 feet of water, I add shot and adjust my
retrive until I get the fly as close to the bottom without scrapping it, in
the place where I think fish are holding, stripping and shaking out more
line and mending to lengthen the drift then hand retrieving and pulsating a
fly back to me. I think it's near impossible to detect a strike in deeper
water and with out some line tension so it's I find a hook up is the line
just will tension up slow or you'll see a flash in the deep water and feel
it, and I lift.

This is one fishing condition I like to fish.

But also there's a time for a dead drift, or times when the fish are
looking for emerging pupa or mayflies and will take a fly at the end of a
drift when you start to pick up and it starts to emerge like a hatching
nymph. Some times they take soft hackles mid depth or a nymph right below
the surface this can be seen as a rise, or emergers in the surface film.

With a floating line and shot to me is for nymphing shorter line mostly,
Normally In pocket water and runs not to deep I add or subtract lead till I'm
scrapping and bumping the bottom but not snagging to much, some times using
an outrigger technique.

A place where I like to nymph is a place where you can drift a fly through
where the bottom current is close speed of the middle and top current so you
can get the longest drift through a run with out mending the line to much
getting too much drag. Don't forget because of hydro friction the current on
the bottom is nil compared to the middle, and the top current and a nymph
drifting naturally doesn't drag, and I think a badly dragging fly, nymph or
dry will spook fish, and the same time I don't know why a wet fly swing
works. Then if you let a nymph hang downstream in pocket water for a while
you may get a strike. Go figure.

And I swear fish take the fly and spit it out 50 % of the time and I
never know it. So often when the fly is drifting in a holding area where I
think there's a trout I lift and feel and strike at the slightest resistance
I can't say how many times I've hooked up this way. Or how many times I got
snagged on the bottom. More snags than fish but fish too.

Tom you'll just have practice and fish fish fish.

I've seen some guys put shot on the bend of the hook, or 3 inches above the
fly.

I'd love to hear other nymphing experiences.

To me it's a Zen 6th sense type of thing, I like it.

Any way my experience.

Gerard

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:ng5zh.21$H77.17@trndny08...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
snip
I'm getting mixed users in favor of split shots vs. sinking line. I have
been currently using split-shots about 18" before the fly, weight
depending on current and depth. I've never tried a sinking line or
sink-tip line, very curious if it makes a difference in a more natural
presentation to the fish.
fwiw,
-tom



Tom,

It depends on the type of water conditions and type of presentation you
are trying to make.

I find full sink tip lines only useful in still waters. Sink tips are
useful in both still waters and streams. In streams, I find their best
use to be for any fly that will be fished on a sub-surface swing, or will
be given some action on the retrieve (e.g. streamers, wet flies, & soft
hackles). For most dead drift situations and, especially if fishing narrow
slots with nymphs, a floating line with weight on the leader will give a
better presentation.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

"G. J. Z." wrote in message
news:Rvdzh.704$7s2.281@trndny07...
Tom

Bob is right.

I know of an very good nymph fisherman who doesn't use sinking lines and
thinks its bull.

He says you'll never detect a strike in deep water. I think he meant with
any line.He just dosen't fish deep water.

It seems on a floating line on longer cast the floating section can act as
a strike indicator, while sinking line you have little indication of a
strike except by feel. and of course a floating strike indicator would
defeat the purpose of a sink tip or full sinking line.

But I use one for the following condition and have caught some hefty
browns doing it.

And think it works better in this case with a full sinking line than a
floater. It gets the nymph closer to the bottom faster longer more
efficiently.

I have not had much experience in still water but this case could be
considered very slow deep water.



Well-said Bob

Some of my experiences and I by no means an expert.

I use my uniform sink line on the slow long deep flats of the East branch
of the Delaware, fishing across and down stream on a short leader no more
than 4 or 5 ft. and I'm talking 5 to 12 feet of water, I add shot and
adjust my retrive until I get the fly as close to the bottom without
scrapping it, in the place where I think fish are holding, stripping and
shaking out more line and mending to lengthen the drift then hand
retrieving and pulsating a fly back to me. I think it's near impossible to
detect a strike in deeper water and with out some line tension so it's I
find a hook up is the line just will tension up slow or you'll see a flash
in the deep water and feel it, and I lift.

This is one fishing condition I like to fish.

But also there's a time for a dead drift, or times when the fish are
looking for emerging pupa or mayflies and will take a fly at the end of a
drift when you start to pick up and it starts to emerge like a hatching
nymph. Some times they take soft hackles mid depth or a nymph right below
the surface this can be seen as a rise, or emergers in the surface film.

With a floating line and shot to me is for nymphing shorter line
mostly, Normally In pocket water and runs not to deep I add or subtract
lead till I'm scrapping and bumping the bottom but not snagging to much,
some times using an outrigger technique.

A place where I like to nymph is a place where you can drift a fly through
where the bottom current is close speed of the middle and top current so
you can get the longest drift through a run with out mending the line to
much getting too much drag. Don't forget because of hydro friction the
current on the bottom is nil compared to the middle, and the top current
and a nymph drifting naturally doesn't drag, and I think a badly dragging
fly, nymph or dry will spook fish, and the same time I don't know why a
wet fly swing works. Then if you let a nymph hang downstream in pocket
water for a while you may get a strike. Go figure.

And I swear fish take the fly and spit it out 50 % of the time and I
never know it. So often when the fly is drifting in a holding area where I
think there's a trout I lift and feel and strike at the slightest
resistance I can't say how many times I've hooked up this way. Or how many
times I got snagged on the bottom. More snags than fish but fish too.

Tom you'll just have practice and fish fish fish.

I've seen some guys put shot on the bend of the hook, or 3 inches above
the fly.

I'd love to hear other nymphing experiences.

To me it's a Zen 6th sense type of thing, I like it.

Any way my experience.

Gerard

"Bob Weinberger" wrote in message
news:ng5zh.21$H77.17@trndny08...

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...
snip
I'm getting mixed users in favor of split shots vs. sinking line. I
have been currently using split-shots about 18" before the fly, weight
depending on current and depth. I've never tried a sinking line or
sink-tip line, very curious if it makes a difference in a more natural
presentation to the fish.
fwiw,
-tom



Tom,

It depends on the type of water conditions and type of presentation you
are trying to make.

I find full sink tip lines only useful in still waters. Sink tips are
useful in both still waters and streams. In streams, I find their best
use to be for any fly that will be fished on a sub-surface swing, or will
be given some action on the retrieve (e.g. streamers, wet flies, & soft
hackles). For most dead drift situations and, especially if fishing
narrow slots with nymphs, a floating line with weight on the leader will
give a better presentation.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR


Thanks Gerard, Bob, Wayne,
very rare when you get a good fly-fishing response in this newsgroup. Your
ideas and techniques are very useful. Most of the old-timers or die-hards
I've talked with don't use the sinking line or sink-tip, but I was thinking
perhaps they're used to their successful ways and are reluctant to change.
I'm always open to try new techniques and figure if sink-tip line doesn't
work for me, I can always go back to my tried and true techniques.

I'll be using the sink-tip line this July on the rivers of Alaska. The
depths that I'll be fishing are from 1-4'. Current flow is from slow to
fast moving, water is crystal clear. I had good success with split-shots
with floating line last year, but the sink-tip line has been on my mind to
use for this year. Some have even suggested shooting-heads, but my idea of
fun is not hooking fish at 90'out. I'll try out the sinking-tip line and
report back after my trip.
fwiw,
-tom

Tom Nakashima wrote:

Thanks Gerard, Bob, Wayne,
very rare when you get a good fly-fishing response in this newsgroup. ...

That is quite simply not true. It is very rare indeed when a
polite, honest query *doesn't* get a good fly fishing response
in this newsgroup.

--
Ken Fortenberry