More Shame for my country.

When I worked in Israel, despite the wonderful things about the place,
there were four specific things I found abhorrant, and was quite proud
didn't exist in the US.

1) The obtuse security on El Al, and the aloof attitude by Isarelis
about how it impacts everyone else. As a non-Israeli, I was endlessly
subjected to security checks, often to a ridiculous degree (electric
razor disassembled, lining removed from suitcase, shoes taken to
another room, toothpaste squeezed out). Despite their claims of it
being for security, as a person who absolutely NEVER posed any sort of
security threat, the grilling I went through merely illustrated to me
what an invasive and ineffective procedure it was. Of course, none of
my Isareli friends ever got searched, so it was discriminatory as well.
However, whenever I complained to them about it, they were oblivious to
my inconvenience and spouted the usual rhetoric about it being
necessary for state security. I always used to say "well, in the US we
don't don't pull this type of crap, and we'd certianly never treat
someone else the way these guys treat me." Yeah, right.

2) The endless 'shell game' that Ariel Sharon played with the media,
with the support of much of the general public. One atrocity after
another was committed (remember the massacre in Jenin? The family of
four that was accidentally hit with a missle aimed at a Hamas leader?
The introduction of extrajudicial assassinations? That father and son
who were killed in crossfire in Jerusalem while waving their arms to be
able to get out of the way?) Whenever there was the beginnings of an
uprising in the world press about it, something else would happen and
the attention would shift. This endlessly shifting attention guaranteed
that there was never any accountability for any past actions, although
the stream of new injustices just kept on coming.

3) The reference of the participants in the Palestinian uprisings as
Terrorists (Palestinians) and Soldiers (Israelis). This type of blanket
rhetoric certainly painted a nice one-sided picture of the unrest, but
any intelligent person could see that it was not so simple. However, no
one ever protested this terminology enough to stop it, and of course it
was generated by the government, not the press. I always thought the US
Press was much more diligent and 'Free' than this, and that such a
thing would never happen back home. I felt that the superior US press
would always keep the debate open, and that American people would
always live by the expression 'I may not agree with what you say, but
I'd defend to the death your right to say it."

4) How any offense committed by Palestinians (like launching a pipe
missle into a potato field and not hitting anybody) was met with a
barrage of criticism and wailing of how brutal the Palestinians are,
but any wrongs committed by the Isareli military was always glossed
over with Orwell-speak, no matter how brutal or how obvious (Shabra and
Shattila, etc etc etc). After a missle strike into the market in Gaza
killed dozens of shoppers, or some innocent family would be blown up as
collateral damage, the news would print something about Hamas
terrorists killing 20 Palestinians caught in the crossfire" and
decrying any Israeli responsibility. Of course, there would sometimes
be a 'government inquiry' and there would never be any fault found with
the guys who fired the missle.

This news article just got me thinking about this stuff:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060327/ts_nm/iraq_dc

Did anyone else notice that W's rhetoric changed drastically after
Sharon's visit to the US back in his first year of this first term?
What the hell did Sharon ('the Man of Peace') tell the young George??

--riverman

"riverman"
When I worked in Israel, despite the wonderful things about the place,

In particular. I enjoyed the food....

1) The obtuse security on El Al,

Well, they do have a good highjack record.... I rather experienced the same
thing myself, but that was in the 80's. Imagine, someone who looks like me,
and I was traveling with a black man. In particular I enjoyed the sample
glasses of Sabra that were given out at the little welcoming booth at the
airport. Nothing like being somewhat stewed as you exit the airport.

I resorted to drinking cooking sherry in the Orthodox quarter and spent a
few days in the Armenian quarter, having found a man with a pipe......



2) The endless 'shell game' that Ariel Sharon played with the media,
with the support of much of the general public.

I found the average person to be somewhat laid back....mostly getting along.
but they have this genetic thing going about the promised land... Most
Bible Thumpers don't realize that the promised land was occupied wihen the
Jews left Egypt, and don't really read the part about the God of Love
ordering the death of many cities,. . . men women and children. Slew being
the past tense of 'sacred slaughter.'

3) The reference of the participants in the Palestinian uprisings as
Terrorists (Palestinians) and Soldiers (Israelis).

Isn't that rather what we have today in Iraq? Our society (the world over)
is collapsing. More scary than any of the science fiction books I ever read.
Indeed the 'Orwell speak' has degenerated into name calling, of which we are
proud. The more derogatory names we can think of for 'others' the more votes
the politicians get....

4) How any offense committed by Palestinians (like launching a pipe
missle into a potato field and not hitting anybody) was met with a
barrage of criticism and wailing of how brutal the Palestinians are,

Chavez, Fidel, the Palestinians and indeed Islam could benefit from the
guidance a few good anti war demonstrators from the sixties... doesn't
anyone remember Ghandi?

Did anyone else notice that W's rhetoric changed drastically after
Sharon's visit to the US back in his first year of this first term?
What the hell did Sharon ('the Man of Peace') tell the young George??

Well, truth be told, I highly suspect that amongst all the gathering of
riches we used to call looting that accompanies any war, we have a select
few, in places of power, who are actually trying to bring about Armegeddon.

--riverman


....I'd love to tell you about a little thing I experienced in the basement
of a hotel on the outskirts of the old city of Jerusalem (ever wonder about
the middle letters - 'USA'?) after a bus blew up not far from an old camel
herder's tent that I happened to be visiting the previous day. The Mossad
was there. . .but I can't right now.

There are people marching in the streets of my city, wanting rights. They
want health care for free that I can't afford for my own family. Being here
illegally, they are criminals and thus have more opportunities than I can
give my own family, because I pay taxes and they don't. While marching they
are wrapped in the flag of another country....chanting in another language.

I feel like the ******* son of Abraham, who can only sit on the doorstep of
his tent saying...

Oh Lord, the Israelites!

john

"asadi" wrote in message
om...

"riverman"
When I worked in Israel, despite the wonderful things about the place,

In particular. I enjoyed the food....

1) The obtuse security on El Al,

Well, they do have a good highjack record.... I rather experienced the
same thing myself, but that was in the 80's. Imagine, someone who looks
like me, and I was traveling with a black man. In particular I enjoyed the
sample glasses of Sabra that were given out at the little welcoming booth
at the airport. Nothing like being somewhat stewed as you exit the
airport.

I resorted to drinking cooking sherry in the Orthodox quarter and spent a
few days in the Armenian quarter, having found a man with a pipe......



2) The endless 'shell game' that Ariel Sharon played with the media,
with the support of much of the general public.

I found the average person to be somewhat laid back....mostly getting
along. but they have this genetic thing going about the promised land...
Most Bible Thumpers don't realize that the promised land was occupied
wihen the Jews left Egypt, and don't really read the part about the God of
Love ordering the death of many cities,. . . men women and children. Slew
being the past tense of 'sacred slaughter.'

3) The reference of the participants in the Palestinian uprisings as
Terrorists (Palestinians) and Soldiers (Israelis).

Isn't that rather what we have today in Iraq?

Yep, and thats the point of my entire post!

...I'd love to tell you about a little thing I experienced in the basement
of a hotel on the outskirts of the old city of Jerusalem (ever wonder
about the middle letters - 'USA'?) after a bus blew up not far from an old
camel herder's tent that I happened to be visiting the previous day. The
Mossad was there. . .but I can't right now.

And I'd love to hear it sometime, John! Let me know when the coast is clear.

My own 'wow' story has been posted here before. http://tinyurl.com/eghqr

--riverman

riverman typed:
snip
Did anyone else notice that W's rhetoric changed drastically after
Sharon's visit to the US back in his first year of this first term?
What the hell did Sharon ('the Man of Peace') tell the young George??

Hmmm. . . did anything else happen in the first year of the first term that
might have influenced the changes? Nah - that would be too easy and wouldn't
lead to the obvious conclusion you've reached.


It's difficult to speak to the Israeli situation if you've never lived there
and can only read reports, as is the situation with me. The problem with
establishing a stand based on just what is read would be faulty, to say the
least. It seems that for every report stating fault in one direction, there
is an equal and opposite reaction. What is your (or anyone else who dabbles)
recommendation to resolve the conflict there?
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
riverman typed:
snip
Did anyone else notice that W's rhetoric changed drastically after
Sharon's visit to the US back in his first year of this first term?
What the hell did Sharon ('the Man of Peace') tell the young George??

Hmmm. . . did anything else happen in the first year of the first term
that might have influenced the changes? Nah - that would be too easy and
wouldn't lead to the obvious conclusion you've reached.


Well, there was a definate shift about our attitude toward the middle east
during that time, and this was well before September. Whatever the reason,
be it pressure from Sharon or forces from outside (this was well before
September), we suddenly abandoned the Mitchell Plan and started using
political strategies very much like what goes on in Israel. It seemed very
evident at the time, and lots of my Israeli friends laughed and said "Yep,
Ariel had a little 'talk' with him and taught him a few things about the
world." Even now, when I get the runaround at an airport, see news reports
from the war that come out just in time to deflect attention from
yesterday's news, or read about 'soldiers vs insurgents', I wonder at the
similarity in tactics.


It's difficult to speak to the Israeli situation if you've never lived
there and can only read reports, as is the situation with me. The problem
with establishing a stand based on just what is read would be faulty, to
say the least. It seems that for every report stating fault in one
direction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. What is your (or
anyone else who dabbles) recommendation to resolve the conflict there?
--

I don't know, its complex, but I know what's being done now isn't working.
But I'm also getting pretty amazed that there doesn't seem to be any thing
called 'reality' that people agree on any more. Everything gets
compromised....the press, the people, morals, truth, reality. How then,
could something as complex as the Palestinian situation, or the war in
Iraq/Afghanistan be resolved? Not by reason or truth, that seems for damn
sure.

I dunno. Its the end of a sort of American Innocence, and its not a change
for good.

--riverman

riverman typed:
"Tim J." wrote in message
...
snip
What is your (or anyone else who dabbles) recommendation
to resolve the conflict there?

I don't know, its complex, but I know what's being done now isn't
working. But I'm also getting pretty amazed that there doesn't seem
to be any thing called 'reality' that people agree on any more.
Everything gets compromised....the press, the people, morals, truth,
reality. How then, could something as complex as the Palestinian
situation, or the war in Iraq/Afghanistan be resolved? Not by reason
or truth, that seems for damn sure.

I dunno. Its the end of a sort of American Innocence, and its not a
change for good.

The "end of American innocence" was a neccessity AFAIAC. Sure, I'd rather
have never worried about such things, but that wasn't in the cards. I don't
disagree that it's not a change for the good, but no change in attitude
would have been much worse. I sure hope we can get to a point of striking a
medium, and I think we've seen a bit of that in the loosening of certain
travel restrictions recently. I can't imagine, though, that we'll ever get
back to pre-9/11 naivety and false comfort.

Methinks the next level of terrorist activity will be on a whole different
playing field, and that much of the airline security measures put in place
were to placate the general public. While the general public's attention is
being averted to the magician's assistant, anyone keeping up on the IT trade
journals knows that most governments, including the USA, get miserable
failing grades for IT security. Maybe our own Mr. Reid (a scholar of the
subject) can tell me I'm wrong and dealing with yet another episode of media
hype. Please!?
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"asadi" wrote in message
om...

I have tried several times to get in touch with you John! Don't make me
resort to a PING!

Op

Tim J. typed:
While the general public's attention is being averted . . .

.. . .should have been "diverted", but then you already knew that.

No good can ever come from typing a few words and then breaking to put out
work fires before getting back to the more serious work of roff. Repeat the
process four or five times per post, and. . . well, you can see what you
get. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim, the easily diverted
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:50:04 GMT, "asadi"
wrote:

because I pay taxes and they don't.

Talk to their employers about the tax issue, they're a bigger part of the
problem as anyone crossing the border. The illegals that have fake SSN's or
green cards *do* pay taxes (assuming their employers withhold them), they just
can't get a refund or draw SS benefits, etc.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

Relax Myron,
it could be worse - you could have been British:
http://www.stephaniemiller.com/decla...revocation.htm

--
Herman