Another very sobering note

On Aug 26, 10:37 am, Enough Already wrote:
http://enough_already.tripod.com/

I like the (above) website.

1)
The idea of idea of endless economic growth violates
the laws of thermo dynamics, it seems to me.
Exactly how is left as an exercise for the reader.

2)
If you think of the capitalist ideal of eternal economic
growth of $x to $y percent per year, then you have
(the idea, at least of) a linear function, expanding by a constant
factor--which mathematically leads to an exponential
growth curve at some point. Eternally expanding economic growth,
in other words, will eventually lead to consumer goods piling up
on the surface of the earth, expanding outward at the speed of light.

We're living an absurd and impossible pipe dream.
We should have tried work with a fixed-size model of some sort,
for both human populations and gross international products.
......but it's probably too late now anyway. So what the hell. :-)

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:37:18 -0700, Enough Already
wrote:

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is us. We is doomed.

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:19:04 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:37:18 -0700, Enough Already
wrote:

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is us. We is doomed.

Dave,
Why don't you write a bunch of letters addressed to your great great
grandchildren to be opened when they are your age? Tell them what life
is like on the planet and how you enjoy the wild places you do now,
how your enjoy flyfishing, where you can go without seeing crowds of
other people, how you can still breath clean air so they will have
something to contrast their existence with. Tell them exactly what
you are doing to make their lives better, why you feel as you do and
explain how you believe your actions are going to make their world a
better place to live in.
Start it off with "The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is
us. We is doomed."
I'm sure they will appreciate the humor in it.

Go ahead Dave. Do it. Make an attempt to be honest. Tell them you
don't think overpopulation will be a problem, pollution? no sweat,
resources? tell them how you think they will last forever.
Tell them what your decisions about what kind of world you want to
pass on to them are based upon. Don't hedge. Be honest for by the time
they read your words any lies you tell will be apparent
Do it Dave.
And try to imagine many years from now what your descendants will
think when they open your letters and read your words of wisdom. Will
they conclude their great great grandfather was a wise man or a fool?
Write 'em Dave.
And be remembered for what you are.

Kiyu

"Kiyu" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:19:04 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:37:18 -0700, Enough Already
wrote:

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is us. We is doomed.

Dave,
Why don't you write a bunch of letters addressed to your great great
grandchildren to be opened when they are your age? Tell them what life
is like on the planet and how you enjoy the wild places you do now,
how your enjoy flyfishing, where you can go without seeing crowds of
other people, how you can still breath clean air so they will have
something to contrast their existence with. Tell them exactly what
you are doing to make their lives better, why you feel as you do and
explain how you believe your actions are going to make their world a
better place to live in.
Start it off with "The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is
us. We is doomed."
I'm sure they will appreciate the humor in it.

Go ahead Dave. Do it. Make an attempt to be honest. Tell them you
don't think overpopulation will be a problem, pollution? no sweat,
resources? tell them how you think they will last forever.
Tell them what your decisions about what kind of world you want to
pass on to them are based upon. Don't hedge. Be honest for by the time
they read your words any lies you tell will be apparent
Do it Dave.
And try to imagine many years from now what your descendants will
think when they open your letters and read your words of wisdom. Will
they conclude their great great grandfather was a wise man or a fool?
Write 'em Dave.
And be remembered for what you are.

An eloquent and cogent plea. Wouldn't it be nice to see more of this sort
of thing here?

Wolfgang
and a damned fine start to what promises to be a great morning!

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:19:10 GMT, (Kiyu) wrote:

Start it off with "The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is
us. We is doomed."
I'm sure they will appreciate the humor in it.

I believe enough already is over reacting. There are many things in
this world that we can not control - over-population is one of them.
I am very concerned, however, over didymo and its transference from
one stream to another. I don't believe there is much we can do about
it right now. Perhaps a solution can be found in the near future.

As far as my great great grandchildren..... well, their future will
certainly be different than ours today, just as it was for my great
great grandparents. My parents were born in 1900. Think of all the
changes they had to worry about, yet, here I am. Great great
grandchildren? They just might look back at us and laugh their asses
off about the crap we now worry about. The world will change; I have
no control over it.

Dave

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:37:17 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:19:10 GMT, (Kiyu) wrote:

Start it off with "The sky is falling. The sky is falling. Woe is
us. We is doomed."
I'm sure they will appreciate the humor in it.

I believe enough already is over reacting.
Really? And your response to the site is ridicule and your actions or
lack of them compound the problems addressed there, but you know that.
Of course there are things on the site which require a lot more of you
than you are willing to give but they make a lot of very good points.
At least try to open your mind to the thoughts of people who see
problems ahead for our children even if you can't.

There are many things in
this world that we can not control - over-population is one of them.
Horse **** Dave. China took an admittedly extreme step to control
population but they did act. More reasonable actions by nations can be
taken to address the problem but it is unlikely when the politicians
of so many countries, such as ours, just ignore the problem.
But it all starts with the individual and his attitude.

I am very concerned, however, over didymo and its transference from
one stream to another. I don't believe there is much we can do about
it right now. Perhaps a solution can be found in the near future.
I'm sure there will be one day but again, there are just too many of
us going from stream to stream. Education will help but I'm sure for
the streams up north recently infected with it you folks would much
rather have been educated about how to stop it rather than how it got
there. But would you have cried "The sky is falling." ?
It was happening to someone else and could never happen to you.
But now it has.
Now the problem of too many fishermen with too much mobility and too
little awareness has produced results which affect your streams in New
England. We as anglers will probably have to address those issues
ourselves before the fisheries folks find a cure.

As far as my great great grandchildren..... well, their future will
certainly be different than ours today, just as it was for my great
great grandparents. My parents were born in 1900. Think of all the
changes they had to worry about, yet, here I am.
Great argument Dave. I would have never thought of that.

Great great
grandchildren? They just might look back at us and laugh their asses
off about the crap we now worry about.
There is no doubt things will be different but you surely can't
believe your great great grandchildren will be laughing about what you
will be doing to them. Matter of fact why don't you put that little
nugget in your letter to them? It should be good for a chuckle.

The world will change; I have
no control over it.
Complete and absolute horse **** Dave, and that you know. A complete
wimp out. You do have control over it. There are positive things you
can do, even if the positive things are to not be negative.
You can change the world for the better if you so choose, admittedly
in small parts but it takes the actions of individuals to make the
collective effort amount to something that can be effective.

Write the letter Dave, as much for yourself as them. Or you can just
hide behind your tombstone so they will never know it was you who
screwed up their world.

Kiyu

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:07:09 GMT, (Kiyu) wrote:

There are positive things you
can do, even if the positive things are to not be negative.
You can change the world for the better if you so choose, admittedly
in small parts but it takes the actions of individuals to make the
collective effort amount to something that can be effective.


You don't know me, Kiyu, so don't pretend to. I *have* helped change
the world for the better. I do a lot of things for my community on a
*daily* basis. Suffice it to say I volunteer many hours a week to my
community and the welfare of others as well as lot of money too. My
grandchildren know what I do and I am sure they will pass it on to
their children. You and your problems are the least of my worries.
The world has managed to get along just fine for the past 70 years,
and I am sure it will continue just fine for the next 70.

I have purchased a pair of Aquastealth boots - no felt soles, and have
spoken to every fisherman I see of the importance of keeping didymo
isolated from our pristine streams. I have a set of boots that will
only see the Rapid River. But regardless, didymo will come,
eventually. If not by felt soles, then by boats, or birds, or
animals. It could even spread by vandals who think it would be a big
joke. Probably of the same ilk that introduced smallmouth bass to the
tailwaters of the Rapid.

As far as a letter to my great, great grandchildren..... I'll let my
kids and their kids pass the word on about me, and even if they say
"He tried", that will be enough for me. If you wanna go on a guilt
trip, go ahead. But as for me, I *know* what I have given and
continue to give. I sleep well and I will die well. Sorry about
that.

Dave

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...

...the same ilk that introduced smallmouth bass to the
tailwaters of the Rapid.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Moron.

Wolfgang

On Aug 30, 7:21 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Moron.

We live in interesting times. It's starting to look like the sky
might indeed be falling. Sure, the jury is still out.
But at the very least, there is enough evidence out there now
to make you think about it. And wonder what comes next.

Also, from what I've seen, those who knee-jerk reject the various
global warming scenerios tend to do so for political reasons,
rather than analytical reasons.

"salmobytes" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 30, 7:21 am, "Wolfgang" wrote:
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Moron.

We live in interesting times.

True. But then, so has everyone else.

It's starting to look like the sky
might indeed be falling. Sure, the jury is still out.
But at the very least, there is enough evidence out there now
to make you think about it. And wonder what comes next.

To SOME it's starting to look like the sky might indeed be falling. The
rest of us heard it crash a long time ago.

Also, from what I've seen, those who knee-jerk reject the various
global warming scenerios tend to do so for political reasons,
rather than analytical reasons.

Maybe so. Still, there's no way humans will ever be able to put a sizeable
dent in the limitless flocks of the passenger pigeons that blot out the sun
for days at a time as they pass overhead; the bison roam the prairies in
countless numbers as they have always done and will always do; the great
Eastern forest will stand forever, immune to humankind's puny depredations;
and the cod will eternally form a carpet that a man can walk across with dry
feet, half-way across the Atlantic.

Wolfgang
who, nevertheless, can't quite shake the nagging feeling that there just
MUST be some bad news lurking out there somewhere.