Fast vs Slow Rods

On 21 Nov, 04:25, daytripper wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:18:26 -0500, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:



"Mike" wrote in message
...

Last week I gave a guy some lessons, and he
turned up with a very soft rod. He wanted to double haul for distance
while sea trout fishing in the sea. Such a rod is quite useless for
that.

Oh come on, you know better than that! Difficult for a beginning caster
maybe but useless? People were doing that with grass and glass before the
onset of high speed graphite rods.

Maybe a bit of hyperbole....I still have a tubular glass 9/8 that today I'd
consider *nearly* useless for double-hauling for distance - it simply doesn't
have enough backbone to generate the line speed needed to throw a full 8
weight line, even in calm air.

Fitted with a shooting head and thin running line might help, I reckon, but I
still wouldn't try it without a helmet and a heavy coat...

/daytripper

Yeah, I have a couple of tubular glass rods. They work as well as they
ever did, but if I want distance I use my carbon fibre rods. I can´t
hit the same distance with the old glass rods, they are too heavy, and
I just can´t move them fast enough. Of course, I am also getting
old!

TL
MC

On 21 Nov, 04:46, Mike wrote:

Fast rods will always cast further than soft rods, in the right hands.
That is why distance casters use fast rods exclusively.

TL
MC

I hasten to add by the way, that not everybody needs a fast rod.
Indeed, for some things they can be unpleasant and contra-productive.
It all depends on what you want to do with a rod.

TL
MC

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:37:10 -0500, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:

"daytripper" wrote in message
.. .

Maybe a bit of hyperbole....I still have a tubular glass 9/8 that today
I'd consider *nearly* useless for double-hauling for distance - it simply
doesn't have enough backbone to generate the line speed needed to throw a full 8
weight line, even in calm air.

I got yer hyperbole, we know it can be done and has been done with some of
the old stuff, "we" sure the heck didn't come up with it. BTW cast a BL5
lately? maybe not grass nor glass but definitely not fast.

Compared to that old glass tube, my 9/8 BL5 is a rocket launcher! It's the
perfect travel rod for the Bahamas and long-distance bone feeshing :-)
I can go all day with that rod and not pay for it the next morning.

The ol' glass? The last time I used it was about 20 years ago up at Grant's
Camp on Kennebago Lake. Wore myself out every day with that critter...

/daytripper (I thank the God of Graphite for saving my shoulder ;-)

I hasten to add by the way, that not everybody needs a fast rod.
Indeed, for some things they can be unpleasant and contra-productive.
It all depends on what you want to do with a rod.

Living up to what the ladies say about it.
Frank Reid

On Nov 21, 1:49 am, wrote:
On Nov 20, 12:00 pm, Frank Reid wrote:

I understand that many folks really like the slow rods, hence the
comments about glass and boo. I, on the other hand, like a really
fast rod (for 4wt or heavier). I use an ADG Titan 8' 4wt. Its my
favorite rod and Roger Olsen declared it "dangerous." This after
watching him blast multiple casts across to the far bank at the Cabin
Run at Penns (and yes, it is an 8 foot 4wt)!

Roger Ohlund. I remember watching that. Fish were not being
cooperative that afternoon, so we all lolled on the river bank,
occasionally taking fruitless turns at displaying all manner of flies
to uncooperative trout.

Until Roger stood up and began casting. It was like watching a freak
show. Of course, a freak show performed by a six foot three chiseled
Odin. Roger threw perfectly formed loops with- easily- one hundred
feet of line out. I felt ashamed of my own casting skills after
watching that display. His rod, Frank's rod, didn't seem to matter.


You should go up to one of the Swedish Claves and fish with the boyos
up there. Roger isn't even standout....these are guys who have been
flycasting since before they could walk, and do it 200 days a year.
They've been casting flies since they were big enough to walk upright,
and watching these guys cast flies is like a worm watching a human
stand up and walk.

--riverman

"daytripper" wrote in message
...

Maybe a bit of hyperbole....I still have a tubular glass 9/8 that today
I'd consider *nearly* useless for double-hauling for distance - it
simply
doesn't have enough backbone to generate the line speed needed to throw
a full 8
weight line, even in calm air.

The ol' glass? The last time I used it was about 20 years ago up at
Grant's
Camp on Kennebago Lake. Wore myself out every day with that critter...

/daytripper (I thank the God of Graphite for saving my shoulder ;-)

Interesting,
I find the slow fly-rods (full flex fly-rods) just the opposite, to save the
shoulder and less work when casting.

When I hand off my bamboo fly-rod to a caster, most always they try to cast
it like a graphite fly-rod, which just kills the cast. A full flex fly-rod
should be effortless with a DT line. You have to slow the rod down, put the
power at the butt of the rod to bend it, ease up during the middle of the
forward cast with just enough speed to take the slack out of the line (one
could feel the line being pulled on the forward cast), then flick the tip
ever so light with your wrist to a complete stop....that is the cast for
using a full flex fly-rod. It's difficult to see this all in one motion,
and like anything it takes time to learn.
It should also be a smooth operation.

For casting into the wind with a full flex fly-rod, put more power at the
butt with a touch more speed.

For chucking big flies, bring in the line to about 20ft, gently pick up the
line with a back haul, you'll feel the rod bend backwards. Then gently
heave the heavy fly out with an arc, the rest of the line will follow.
Should still be effortless.

I'll add, when a fish strikes the fly, you'll have to strip-set and raise
the rod to hook em. Should also be in one motion.
-tom

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:22:07 -0500, daytripper
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:37:10 -0500, "Wayne Knight"
wrote:

"daytripper" wrote in message
. ..

Maybe a bit of hyperbole....I still have a tubular glass 9/8 that today
I'd consider *nearly* useless for double-hauling for distance - it simply
doesn't have enough backbone to generate the line speed needed to throw a full 8
weight line, even in calm air.

I got yer hyperbole, we know it can be done and has been done with some of
the old stuff, "we" sure the heck didn't come up with it. BTW cast a BL5
lately? maybe not grass nor glass but definitely not fast.

Compared to that old glass tube, my 9/8 BL5 is a rocket launcher! It's the
perfect travel rod for the Bahamas and long-distance bone feeshing :-)
I can go all day with that rod and not pay for it the next morning.

The ol' glass? The last time I used it was about 20 years ago up at Grant's
Camp on Kennebago Lake. Wore myself out every day with that critter...

/daytripper (I thank the God of Graphite for saving my shoulder ;-)

I'd offer that it isn't simply a function of material - it has a lot to
do with the rod itself, its taper, etc. I have distance casting and
tournament rods in all the (major) materials from over the last 125-150
years, and 19th century casters were perfectly capable of making 150
foot casts with spliced greenheart. Granted, I'd agree that such has
been surpassed as rod material and construction, but for example, I have
a 'glass Siloflex custom that I'd put up against any modern graphite rod
as a wind-slicing bonefishing rod, plus it it'll take knocking around
that would ruin most graphites. And on a related note to the 'boo
thread, I have Garrisons, Paynes, etc. that are as much a pleasure to
cast astream as any graphite I've ever held. I'm not claiming 'boo is
"better," simply different, but I'd offer that someone claiming that
graphite is "better" hasn't cast the right 'boo or 'glass.

TC,
R

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:00:37 -0800 (PST), Frank Reid
wrote:

I understand that many folks really like the slow rods, hence the
comments about glass and boo. I, on the other hand, like a really
fast rod (for 4wt or heavier). I use an ADG Titan 8' 4wt. Its my
favorite rod and Roger Olsen declared it "dangerous." This after
watching him blast multiple casts across to the far bank at the Cabin
Run at Penns (and yes, it is an 8 foot 4wt)!
Question, what other brand/model fly rods are on the market that you
would consider really fast? Someone handed me their "fast" T&T that
felt slow as molasses. Looking at the market for Xmas and want to
narrow down the field (though I may just go and get ADG).
Frank Reid


Submitted without comment:

http://www.echoflyfishing.com/distance_classic.php

TC,
R

Submitted without comment:

http://www.echoflyfishing.com/distance_classic.php

Hey Wayne! You got one of these yet? I'm interested. Its the length
and weight I'm looking for. Would like to find somewhere to try it
out.
Frank Reid

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:47:57 -0800 (PST), Frank Reid
wrote:

Submitted without comment:

http://www.echoflyfishing.com/distance_classic.php

Hey Wayne! You got one of these yet? I'm interested. Its the length
and weight I'm looking for. Would like to find somewhere to try it
out.
Frank Reid

Given your, well, "status" in fly-tying, I'd think a call to Rajeff
Sports/Echo might be worth a try to see if they'll send you one as a
"demo," with a promise to review it and post your comments. But note
how he (Tim Rajeff) rates the speed - medium-fast. OTOH, and while Tim
isn't his brother, casting distance-wise, he has bested him casting
accuracy-wise, and IIRC, 100 foot casts don't really even put that rod
to the test - YMMV, of course.

Heck, your testing it might even be a new marketing tool for him/them -
"Reid can't drown it..."

TC,
R

And for the record, I have no personal interest in anyone purchasing
this rod or anything else from the site, um, cited.