Have I really been suspended??????

I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Thanks.
______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.

After viewing several examples the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010
season will be refused.

The Committee believe that you have been given ample opportunity to
make direct contact in order to explain your behaviour, but you have
chosen to decline the offer.

With this in mind the committee do not feel that any further
opportunity should be extended.

If you have any questions regarding this letter, please contact Mr
Chairman on 078********

Regards

Mr Bloggs
Acting Secretary of the Association
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() ()()()()())()()()

This letter merely informs me that a meeting (that I wasn't
invited to) discussed my "refusal" to phone the Acting Secretary.

At no point was I instructed by ANYONE to call the Acting Secretary,
so I do not see how refusing to do what I wasn't instructed to do
could be grounds for suspension.

Additionally, at no time have I been asked to "explain my behaviour".

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

The letter does not tell me anything about a refund of my fees.

The letter does not tell me who the members of this committee are.

The letter does not tell me about any route to appeal the decision.

The letter does not have a return address.

The letter, quite frankly, is an abomination and typical of the
secrecy that is rotting the club from the top down.

Have I really been suspended??????



Thanks

a_non_the_mouse wrote:
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Thanks.

It looks like it. Whether they can lawfully do this, however, depends on
their membership conditions and whether their disciplinary procedures allow
them to do this. My guess is that they probably do, because there is ample
caselaw on the wording and structure of such expulsion processes, but it's
impossible to say without looking at the conditions. Even if they've got it
wrong, your chances of getting damages are limited, and you probably
wouldn't want to rejoin a club that had expelled you illegally. I'd find
another angling club, if I were you.

______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.

After viewing several examples the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010
season will be refused.

The Committee believe that you have been given ample opportunity to
make direct contact in order to explain your behaviour, but you have
chosen to decline the offer.

With this in mind the committee do not feel that any further
opportunity should be extended.

If you have any questions regarding this letter, please contact Mr
Chairman on 078********

Regards

Mr Bloggs
Acting Secretary of the Association
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() ()()()()())()()()

This letter merely informs me that a meeting (that I wasn't
invited to) discussed my "refusal" to phone the Acting Secretary.

At no point was I instructed by ANYONE to call the Acting Secretary,
so I do not see how refusing to do what I wasn't instructed to do
could be grounds for suspension.

Additionally, at no time have I been asked to "explain my behaviour".

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

The letter does not tell me anything about a refund of my fees.

The letter does not tell me who the members of this committee are.

The letter does not tell me about any route to appeal the decision.

The letter does not have a return address.

The letter, quite frankly, is an abomination and typical of the
secrecy that is rotting the club from the top down.

Have I really been suspended??????



Thanks

"a_non_the_mouse" wrote in message
...
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Thanks.
______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.

After viewing several examples the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010
season will be refused.

The Committee believe that you have been given ample opportunity to
make direct contact in order to explain your behaviour, but you have
chosen to decline the offer.

With this in mind the committee do not feel that any further
opportunity should be extended.

If you have any questions regarding this letter, please contact Mr
Chairman on 078********

Regards

Mr Bloggs
Acting Secretary of the Association
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() ()()()()())()()()

This letter merely informs me that a meeting (that I wasn't
invited to) discussed my "refusal" to phone the Acting Secretary.

At no point was I instructed by ANYONE to call the Acting Secretary,
so I do not see how refusing to do what I wasn't instructed to do
could be grounds for suspension.

Additionally, at no time have I been asked to "explain my behaviour".

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

The letter does not tell me anything about a refund of my fees.

The letter does not tell me who the members of this committee are.

The letter does not tell me about any route to appeal the decision.

The letter does not have a return address.

The letter, quite frankly, is an abomination and typical of the
secrecy that is rotting the club from the top down.

Have I really been suspended??????


Yes. To quote what you have put, "... the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010 season
will be refused."

Whether this has been fairly done and you have the right of appeal depends
on various other factors, such as the type of club and its constitution.

Iain

a_non_the_mouse wrote:
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???
______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.
..........
etc.

Why are you asking us? If I were you, I'd call and ask the acting
secretary.

- JR

a_non_the_mouse wrote:
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Thanks.
______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.

After viewing several examples the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010
season will be refused.

The Committee believe that you have been given ample opportunity to
make direct contact in order to explain your behaviour, but you have
chosen to decline the offer.

With this in mind the committee do not feel that any further
opportunity should be extended.

If you have any questions regarding this letter, please contact Mr
Chairman on 078********

Regards

Mr Bloggs
Acting Secretary of the Association
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() ()()()()())()()()

This letter merely informs me that a meeting (that I wasn't
invited to) discussed my "refusal" to phone the Acting Secretary.

At no point was I instructed by ANYONE to call the Acting Secretary,
so I do not see how refusing to do what I wasn't instructed to do
could be grounds for suspension.

Additionally, at no time have I been asked to "explain my behaviour".

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

The letter does not tell me anything about a refund of my fees.

The letter does not tell me who the members of this committee are.

The letter does not tell me about any route to appeal the decision.

The letter does not have a return address.

The letter, quite frankly, is an abomination and typical of the
secrecy that is rotting the club from the top down.

Have I really been suspended??????

Acording to the letter yes you have & it could hardly be clearer on that
point.

You have been invited to contact 'Mr Chairman'. Surely the thing to do now
is to contact him & raise the points you mentioned above re why you feel you
have been unfairly treated.

--
Joe Lee

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:12 -0800 (PST), a_non_the_mouse
wrote:

I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Yes

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

It does not need to.

The letter does not tell me anything about a refund of my fees.

It does not need to.

The letter does not tell me who the members of this committee are.

It does not need to.

The letter does not tell me about any route to appeal the decision.

Yes it does - it tells you to phone the Chairman and supplies you with
his telephone number.

The letter does not have a return address.

It does not need to.

Have I really been suspended??????

Yes.

On 5 Feb, 22:51, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:12 -0800 (PST), a_non_the_mouse

wrote:
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Yes

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

It does not need to.


Thanks.

I accept that "the letter" does not have to tell me what authority
they have for taking such action, but I do not know if they actually
DO have the authority to suspend a member.
Perhaps they do.
Perhaps they don't.

Not one member of the club that I have been in contact with today can
show me any evidence that such authority exists.

Perhaps Robert Clerk, the managing agent for the Crown Estate's salmon
fishing interests in Scotland, would like to know what kind of
autocrats have the lease on the river (until December 31st this
year.) This information may help him decide about the lease for the
next 5 years.

"a_non_the_mouse" wrote in message
...
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Thanks.
______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.

After viewing several examples the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010
season will be refused.

It's something you should take up with the angling club.
Quite franky I think anglers are a load of selfish arseholes who think they
own the river/canal. They can all fall in the water and drown for all I
care.
Now **** off and take your stupid argument elsewhere, you brain dead
dickhead.

On Feb 5, 2:55*pm, a_non_the_mouse wrote:

I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

..Don't know yet. Let's take a look at it, shall we?

Thanks.

You're quite welcome.

______________________________

Dear Mr XXXXX

AH! Unless you name actually is XXXXX, I'd say your chances of being
reinstated look very good right from the outset!

Your recent refusal to contact the acting secretary by phone regarding
several emails and internet posts, was brought to the attention of the
Committee at their most recent meeting.

O.k., on the face of it, refusing to contact the acting secretary
doesn't look good. Sort of suggests contempt.....or at least an
unexplained indifference. Still, neither of those feelings is ouright
illegal.....in most places. For now, let's continue and see where
this all leads.

After viewing several examples the Committee has decided to suspend
your membership until further notice, any application for the 2010
season will be refused.

Here's something we can work with. The unnamed "Committee" (we can
definitely use their anonymity to our advantage.....more on that
later.....maybe) has evidently viewed "several examples" of what we
can only suppose to be their own correspondence, given the wording of
the previous sentence. Sure, one COULD hold to the position that they
were referencing alleged calls and/or emails initiated by your august
self, but any court in its collective right mind would throw that out
on the grounds of senseless ambiguity. One can hardly be held at
fault for replying with a hearty (and heartfelt) so what?.....or
not.....which would, or at least should, convey precisely the same
message.

The Committee believe that you have been given ample opportunity to
make direct contact in order to explain your behaviour, but you have
chosen to decline the offer.

The "Committee" can scarcely be in a position to know whether the
alleged opportunities they claim to have given are, or were, "ample."
In point of fact, the lack of response rather suggests otherwise,
ainna? As to the allegation that "you have chosen to decline the
offer," this is pure speculation, unsustantiated by a single shred of
evidence. It is equally plausible, in the absence of anything
resembling evidence to the contrary, that you were prevented from
responding by forces utterly beyond your control. For instance, it
remains in doubt (as pointed out above) whether or not you ever
received any calls, emails, or other correspondence from the
mysterious "Committee."

With this in mind the committee do not feel that any further
opportunity should be extended.

Feelings do not enter into the matter......or shouldn't, anyway. The
courts have, for centuries, been quite clear on this point. What
matters is a cool-headed application of reason to the interpretation
of the law.

If you have any questions regarding this letter, please contact Mr
Chairman on 078********

"Mr Chairman"? This just plain strains credulity! How likely is it
that the chairman of the still unidentified "Committee" is actually
named Chairman? Not impossible, I admit, but I remain skeptical.
Meanwhile, I just dialed 078********. No one answered the phone. Not
surprising, some might say, given that the usage found thus far in
this sad saga suggests it is taking place somewhere to the east of the
pond where it is now sometime in the wee hours of Saturday morning,
but you'd think they'd at least have voicemail or something like that
by now.....right? I mean, civilization has at least made a
perfunctory visit or two to the hallowed isles on occasion over the
past couple of centuries.....or not?
Regards

Mr Bloggs

Bloggs.....Bloggs.....hm......aren't they related to the Bagginses
over by twiddly under the whatsit?

Acting Secretary of the Association

Ah! An actor! Oh, we are going to have SUCH an easy time with this!

()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() ()()()()())()()()

Hm.....

Your computer seems to have been invaded by quagga mussels. Sorry,
not much I can do to help you with this problem. Hey, wait! I've got
a friend over at the Department of Natural Resources. I'll give him a
call and get back to you. O.k.?

This letter merely informs me that a meeting (that I wasn't
invited to) discussed my "refusal" to phone the Acting Secretary.

Actually, a close reading reveals that it does a whole lot
more.....and less.....than that. But then, that's exactly why you
have sought our assitance on this rather ticklish matter, isn't it?

At no point was I instructed by ANYONE to call the Acting Secretary,

No, but what the hell, it might not have been an entirely bad idea
anyway.....right? Hell, everybody likes to get a call from old
friends once in a while. You know, just keep in touch, how ya doin',
that kind of thing. I mean, would it abso****inlutely KILL somebody
to call his ****in' brother on his ****in' birthday and just say hi
how ya doin?!

so I do not see how refusing to do what I wasn't instructed to do
could be grounds for suspension.

Well, there could be a clause which states just that. Do you happen
to have a copy of the bylaws you could fax to us at our earliest
convenience?

Additionally, at no time have I been asked to "explain my behaviour".

Uh huh, we know how much it can hurt to not be asked. O.k., go
ahead.....explain your behavior. Go on......we're listening.

The letter does not tell me what authority they have to suspend my
membership.

True, but that could simply be becuase they have the authority to not
tell you what authority they have to suspend your membership. These
things (as should be clear by now) can get pretty complicated. And
that's precisely why you came to us.....right? So, don't worry, we'll
get it all sorted out for you.

The letter does not tell me anything about a refund of my fees.

Um.....you haven't told us anything about fees.

The letter does not tell me who the members of this committee are.

Good point. However, since we don't know what committee it is, the
membership would appear to be moot.

The letter does not tell me about any route to appeal the decision.

You may rest assured that this end of the matter may be left safely in
our hands.....should we come to an understanding that our involvement
is in our mutual best interest ($$$). In the meantime, don't fret
your pretty little head over it.....o.k.?

The letter does not have a return address.

Doesn't matter. It probably wouldn't do us any more good than the
phone number above.

The letter, quite frankly, is an abomination

Well, it's a sure enough curiosity, anyway. But you should probably
refrain from making strong statements (or any statements at all, for
that matter) until we have met with the scurrilous *******s and sorted
some of this tedious **** out. O.k.?

and typical of the
secrecy that is rotting the club from the top down.

The directionality (assuming any such exists) of the rot is not
germain. The point is to root it out regardless and get the
loo.....um......seek justice for all.

Have I really been suspended??????

Well, when you look toward your feet, do you see ceiling or floor?

Thanks

You're welcome.

giles
for The Company

On Feb 5, 3:15*pm, "Janitor of Lunacy" wrote:
a_non_the_mouse wrote:
I received the following today from an angling club that I may or may
not now be a member of.

Have I been suspended???

Thanks.

It looks like it. Whether they can lawfully do this, however, depends on
their membership conditions and whether their disciplinary procedures allow
them to do this. My guess is that they probably do, because there is ample
caselaw on the wording and structure of such expulsion processes, but it's
impossible to say without looking at the conditions.

Beg pardon, sir, are you a barrister or a solicitor? Are you licensed
to dispense legal advice. Have a care, sirrah, you know not what deep
and treacherous waters you roil.

Even if they've got it
wrong, your chances of getting damages are limited,

Yeah, there's that.....but where there's sheep, there's fleece,
ainna? Go find your own ewe.

and you probably
wouldn't want to rejoin a club that had expelled you illegally.

Personally, I tend toward agreement with Mr. Marx on this point.

I'd find another angling club, if I were you.

Hell, I'd find another angling club, newsgroup, home, history,
language, culture and educational system if I were any of you.....or
try to with the limited means that would be at my disposal.

g.