Chestnuts revisited

When Becky and I got our first chestnuts over a year ago all fourteen
of them were already sprouted.....in February. This past autumn we
collected several hundred and immediately began stratification, the
process of refrigerating them to break dormancy. We supposed that
they would begin to germinate and be ready to plant by mid to late
winter, just like those in our first batch. February came and went,
and then so did March. Nothing happened. Worry.

But then, when I checked them again about a week ago, there were, at
last, lovely young roots protruding from many of the seeds despite the
fact that most of them were by now covered in a fairly nasty coating
of mildew and what I suspect is some sort of bacterial slime. A
thorough washing brought them all back into good condition and they
were put back into the refrigerator in fresh sphagnum moss.

This morning I sorted and bagged those slated to be shipped out to a
few ROFFians who said they'd like to have them for planting on their
own properties. They went out to the Waterford, Wisconsin post office
this afternoon and are slated to arrive at their new homes long about
Monday or Tuesday. On arrival they should be planted as soon as
possible. If they cannot be planted immediately, they should be kept
in the bags they were shipped in and refrigerated until planting. The
bags also contain wet sphagnum. If they must be stored, be sure to
keep the sphagnum very moist.....it may dry somewhat in transit.

Direct seeding is best as long as adequate water and protection from
rodents can be provided. Otherwise, plant in a suitable container
(meaning just about anything that provides enough room for growth till
transplanting and is easy to get the seedling out of) and place in a
frost-free spot with lots of sunshine. American chestnut is fairly
shade tolerant, but you might as well get it off to a good start with
all the sunshine it can get. In either case, plant the seeds on their
sides.....the axis at which the root protrudes from the seed should be
horizontal.....and cover with about an inch of loose soil. Chestnut
is not overly fastidious about soil type, drainage, etc., but the
seedlings, again, should be given every advantage. Loosen the soil
for at least a few inches under the seed before planting and remove
any vegetative growth for at least a foot in diameter around it.

Chestnuts rank very high on the list of favorite foods among rodents
and other vermin. The shoots and buds and bark are almost as alluring
as the nuts themselves. The seeds and seedling MUST be given absolute
protection. Quarter or half inch mesh hardware cloth (actually, woven
or welded wire, for the uninitiated) is best.....a cylinder about two
feet tall and a foot in diameter will suffice through the first year
of growth, and possibly the second as well. However, keep a close eye
on them in the second year.....chestnut grows FAST! in good
conditions. Planting inside a deer-proof fence is best, of course,
but not always practical. Where deer are not a problem and there is
no appreciable snow, plastic cones work well enough. The cones are
typically about 18 inches tall and look like an upside-down ice cream
cone with the pointy end cut off, and have three wire prongs on the
wide end. The wire prongs are simply pushed into the earth around the
seed/seedling. These cones are translucent and will allow plenty of
light for the seedlings. Avoid the long cylindrical plant
protectors......lots of problems associated with them. Where snow
gets deep enough to cover the cones they are inadequate. Mice and
voles tunnel through the snow or climb out above it and girdle the
seedlings. Remember, the seedlings need to be protected for at least
two years.....probably more. Consult local arborists, tree nurseries,
etc. for more detailed and locale specific recommendations.

American chestnut soes not self-pollinate and the wind-borne pollen
does not travel far. Be sure to plant each seedling no more than a
hundred feet from another.....if you want viable seed. Closer is
better. The crown of a mature tree will likely be thirty to fifty
feet in diameter. Planting 40 or so feet apart will ensure sufficient
room and greatly facilitate nut production. Remember that even if you
are not interested in propagating more trees, American chestnuts are
delicious (vastly better, if also a lot smaller, than their European
and Asian cousins) and highly nutricious.....a bountiful annual crop
is not only beneficial to wildlife or domestic stock, it is also a
boon at the table. Conversely, if you are not interested in eating
them, spreading the wealth will help to ensure the future of a highly
threatened species.

With respect to that last bit, be prepared to see your trees die. If
they remain isolated, far enough and long enough, they will live to a
ripe old age.....I know of some that are fifty-five years old and
going strong, producing a stupefying crop of seeds annually (unlike
most nut tree species which only produce a bumper crop every few
years). There are NO known blight resistant pure American chestnuts.
Those that survive long do so because no spore laden individuals have
visited them. Brag about and show off your trees by all means, if you
wish, but remember that an unknown chestnut is a safe chestnut.
Isolation is the key to survival.....for now.

There's more.....lots more.....but I have to go make some venison
stroganoff right now. Questions and comments, here or via email, are
most welcome.

giles.

On Apr 23, 2:19*pm, Giles wrote:
When Becky and I got our first chestnuts over a year ago all fourteen
of them were already sprouted.....in February. *This past autumn we
collected several hundred and immediately began stratification, the
process of refrigerating them to break dormancy. *We supposed that
they would begin to germinate and be ready to plant by mid to late
winter, just like those in our first batch. *February came and went,
and then so did March. *Nothing happened. *Worry.

But then, when I checked them again about a week ago, there were, at
last, lovely young roots protruding from many of the seeds despite the
fact that most of them were by now covered in a fairly nasty coating
of mildew and what I suspect is some sort of bacterial slime. *A
thorough washing brought them all back into good condition and they
were put back into the refrigerator in fresh sphagnum moss.

This morning I sorted and bagged those slated to be shipped out to a
few ROFFians who said they'd like to have them for planting on their
own properties. *They went out to the Waterford, Wisconsin post office
this afternoon and are slated to arrive at their new homes long about
Monday or Tuesday. *On arrival they should be planted as soon as
possible. *If they cannot be planted immediately, they should be kept
in the bags they were shipped in and refrigerated until planting. *The
bags also contain wet sphagnum. *If they must be stored, be sure to
keep the sphagnum very moist.....it may dry somewhat in transit.

Direct seeding is best as long as adequate water and protection from
rodents can be provided. *Otherwise, plant in a suitable container
(meaning just about anything that provides enough room for growth till
transplanting and is easy to get the seedling out of) and place in a
frost-free spot with lots of sunshine. *American chestnut is fairly
shade tolerant, but you might as well get it off to a good start with
all the sunshine it can get. *In either case, plant the seeds on their
sides.....the axis at which the root protrudes from the seed should be
horizontal.....and cover with about an inch of loose soil. *Chestnut
is not overly fastidious about soil type, drainage, etc., but the
seedlings, again, should be given every advantage. *Loosen the soil
for at least a few inches under the seed before planting and remove
any vegetative growth for at least a foot in diameter around it.

Chestnuts rank very high on the list of favorite foods among rodents
and other vermin. *The shoots and buds and bark are almost as alluring
as the nuts themselves. *The seeds and seedling MUST be given absolute
protection. *Quarter or half inch mesh hardware cloth (actually, woven
or welded wire, for the uninitiated) is best.....a cylinder about two
feet tall and a foot in diameter will suffice through the first year
of growth, and possibly the second as well. *However, keep a close eye
on them in the second year.....chestnut grows FAST! in good
conditions. *Planting inside a deer-proof fence is best, of course,
but not always practical. *Where deer are not a problem and there is
no appreciable snow, *plastic cones work well enough. *The cones are
typically about 18 inches tall and look like an upside-down ice cream
cone with the pointy end cut off, and have three wire prongs on the
wide end. *The wire prongs are simply pushed into the earth around the
seed/seedling. *These cones are translucent and will allow plenty of
light for the seedlings. *Avoid the long cylindrical plant
protectors......lots of problems associated with them. *Where snow
gets deep enough to cover the cones they are inadequate. *Mice and
voles tunnel through the snow or climb out above it and girdle the
seedlings. *Remember, the seedlings need to be protected for at least
two years.....probably more. *Consult local arborists, tree nurseries,
etc. for more detailed and locale specific recommendations.

American chestnut soes not self-pollinate and the wind-borne pollen
does not travel far. *Be sure to plant each seedling no more than a
hundred feet from another.....if you want viable seed. *Closer is
better. *The crown of a mature tree will likely be thirty to fifty
feet in diameter. *Planting 40 or so feet apart will ensure sufficient
room and greatly facilitate nut production. *Remember that even if you
are not interested in propagating more trees, American chestnuts are
delicious (vastly better, if also a lot smaller, than their European
and Asian cousins) and highly nutricious.....a bountiful annual crop
is not only beneficial to wildlife or domestic stock, it is also a
boon at the table. *Conversely, if you are not interested in eating
them, spreading the wealth will help to ensure the future of a highly
threatened species.

With respect to that last bit, be prepared to see your trees die. *If
they remain isolated, far enough and long enough, they will live to a
ripe old age.....I know of some that are fifty-five years old and
going strong, producing a stupefying crop of seeds annually (unlike
most nut tree species which only produce a bumper crop every few
years). *There are NO known blight resistant pure American chestnuts.
Those that survive long do so because no spore laden individuals have
visited them. *Brag about and show off your trees by all means, if you
wish, but remember that an unknown chestnut is a safe chestnut.
Isolation is the key to survival.....for now.

There's more.....lots more.....but I have to go make some venison
stroganoff right now. *Questions and comments, here or via email, are
most welcome.

giles.

Helpful stuff. Thanx
Dave

On Apr 25, 11:14*am, DaveS wrote:
On Apr 23, 2:19*pm, Giles wrote:





When Becky and I got our first chestnuts over a year ago all fourteen
of them were already sprouted.....in February. *This past autumn we
collected several hundred and immediately began stratification, the
process of refrigerating them to break dormancy. *We supposed that
they would begin to germinate and be ready to plant by mid to late
winter, just like those in our first batch. *February came and went,
and then so did March. *Nothing happened. *Worry.

But then, when I checked them again about a week ago, there were, at
last, lovely young roots protruding from many of the seeds despite the
fact that most of them were by now covered in a fairly nasty coating
of mildew and what I suspect is some sort of bacterial slime. *A
thorough washing brought them all back into good condition and they
were put back into the refrigerator in fresh sphagnum moss.

This morning I sorted and bagged those slated to be shipped out to a
few ROFFians who said they'd like to have them for planting on their
own properties. *They went out to the Waterford, Wisconsin post office
this afternoon and are slated to arrive at their new homes long about
Monday or Tuesday. *On arrival they should be planted as soon as
possible. *If they cannot be planted immediately, they should be kept
in the bags they were shipped in and refrigerated until planting. *The
bags also contain wet sphagnum. *If they must be stored, be sure to
keep the sphagnum very moist.....it may dry somewhat in transit.

Direct seeding is best as long as adequate water and protection from
rodents can be provided. *Otherwise, plant in a suitable container
(meaning just about anything that provides enough room for growth till
transplanting and is easy to get the seedling out of) and place in a
frost-free spot with lots of sunshine. *American chestnut is fairly
shade tolerant, but you might as well get it off to a good start with
all the sunshine it can get. *In either case, plant the seeds on their
sides.....the axis at which the root protrudes from the seed should be
horizontal.....and cover with about an inch of loose soil. *Chestnut
is not overly fastidious about soil type, drainage, etc., but the
seedlings, again, should be given every advantage. *Loosen the soil
for at least a few inches under the seed before planting and remove
any vegetative growth for at least a foot in diameter around it.

Chestnuts rank very high on the list of favorite foods among rodents
and other vermin. *The shoots and buds and bark are almost as alluring
as the nuts themselves. *The seeds and seedling MUST be given absolute
protection. *Quarter or half inch mesh hardware cloth (actually, woven
or welded wire, for the uninitiated) is best.....a cylinder about two
feet tall and a foot in diameter will suffice through the first year
of growth, and possibly the second as well. *However, keep a close eye
on them in the second year.....chestnut grows FAST! in good
conditions. *Planting inside a deer-proof fence is best, of course,
but not always practical. *Where deer are not a problem and there is
no appreciable snow, *plastic cones work well enough. *The cones are
typically about 18 inches tall and look like an upside-down ice cream
cone with the pointy end cut off, and have three wire prongs on the
wide end. *The wire prongs are simply pushed into the earth around the
seed/seedling. *These cones are translucent and will allow plenty of
light for the seedlings. *Avoid the long cylindrical plant
protectors......lots of problems associated with them. *Where snow
gets deep enough to cover the cones they are inadequate. *Mice and
voles tunnel through the snow or climb out above it and girdle the
seedlings. *Remember, the seedlings need to be protected for at least
two years.....probably more. *Consult local arborists, tree nurseries,
etc. for more detailed and locale specific recommendations.

American chestnut soes not self-pollinate and the wind-borne pollen
does not travel far. *Be sure to plant each seedling no more than a
hundred feet from another.....if you want viable seed. *Closer is
better. *The crown of a mature tree will likely be thirty to fifty
feet in diameter. *Planting 40 or so feet apart will ensure sufficient
room and greatly facilitate nut production. *Remember that even if you
are not interested in propagating more trees, American chestnuts are
delicious (vastly better, if also a lot smaller, than their European
and Asian cousins) and highly nutricious.....a bountiful annual crop
is not only beneficial to wildlife or domestic stock, it is also a
boon at the table. *Conversely, if you are not interested in eating
them, spreading the wealth will help to ensure the future of a highly
threatened species.

With respect to that last bit, be prepared to see your trees die. *If
they remain isolated, far enough and long enough, they will live to a
ripe old age.....I know of some that are fifty-five years old and
going strong, producing a stupefying crop of seeds annually (unlike
most nut tree species which only produce a bumper crop every few
years). *There are NO known blight resistant pure American chestnuts.
Those that survive long do so because no spore laden individuals have
visited them. *Brag about and show off your trees by all means, if you
wish, but remember that an unknown chestnut is a safe chestnut.
Isolation is the key to survival.....for now.

There's more.....lots more.....but I have to go make some venison
stroganoff right now. *Questions and comments, here or via email, are
most welcome.

giles.

Helpful stuff. Thanx
Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They arrived. And will shortly see dirt.
Dave

"Giles" wrote in message
...
When Becky and I got our first chestnuts over a year ago all fourteen
of them were already sprouted.....in February. This past autumn we
collected several hundred and immediately began stratification, the
process of refrigerating them to break dormancy. We supposed that
they would begin to germinate and be ready to plant by mid to late
winter, just like those in our first batch. February came and went,
and then so did March. Nothing happened. Worry.

But then, when I checked them again about a week ago, there were, at
last, lovely young roots protruding from many of the seeds despite the
fact that most of them were by now covered in a fairly nasty coating
of mildew and what I suspect is some sort of bacterial slime. A
thorough washing brought them all back into good condition and they
were put back into the refrigerator in fresh sphagnum moss.

This morning I sorted and bagged those slated to be shipped out to a
few ROFFians who said they'd like to have them for planting on their
own properties. They went out to the Waterford, Wisconsin post office
this afternoon and are slated to arrive at their new homes long about
Monday or Tuesday. On arrival they should be planted as soon as
possible. If they cannot be planted immediately, they should be kept
in the bags they were shipped in and refrigerated until planting. The
bags also contain wet sphagnum. If they must be stored, be sure to
keep the sphagnum very moist.....it may dry somewhat in transit.

Direct seeding is best as long as adequate water and protection from
rodents can be provided. Otherwise, plant in a suitable container
(meaning just about anything that provides enough room for growth till
transplanting and is easy to get the seedling out of) and place in a
frost-free spot with lots of sunshine. American chestnut is fairly
shade tolerant, but you might as well get it off to a good start with
all the sunshine it can get. In either case, plant the seeds on their
sides.....the axis at which the root protrudes from the seed should be
horizontal.....and cover with about an inch of loose soil. Chestnut
is not overly fastidious about soil type, drainage, etc., but the
seedlings, again, should be given every advantage. Loosen the soil
for at least a few inches under the seed before planting and remove
any vegetative growth for at least a foot in diameter around it.

Chestnuts rank very high on the list of favorite foods among rodents
and other vermin. The shoots and buds and bark are almost as alluring
as the nuts themselves. The seeds and seedling MUST be given absolute
protection. Quarter or half inch mesh hardware cloth (actually, woven
or welded wire, for the uninitiated) is best.....a cylinder about two
feet tall and a foot in diameter will suffice through the first year
of growth, and possibly the second as well. However, keep a close eye
on them in the second year.....chestnut grows FAST! in good
conditions. Planting inside a deer-proof fence is best, of course,
but not always practical. Where deer are not a problem and there is
no appreciable snow, plastic cones work well enough. The cones are
typically about 18 inches tall and look like an upside-down ice cream
cone with the pointy end cut off, and have three wire prongs on the
wide end. The wire prongs are simply pushed into the earth around the
seed/seedling. These cones are translucent and will allow plenty of
light for the seedlings. Avoid the long cylindrical plant
protectors......lots of problems associated with them. Where snow
gets deep enough to cover the cones they are inadequate. Mice and
voles tunnel through the snow or climb out above it and girdle the
seedlings. Remember, the seedlings need to be protected for at least
two years.....probably more. Consult local arborists, tree nurseries,
etc. for more detailed and locale specific recommendations.

American chestnut soes not self-pollinate and the wind-borne pollen
does not travel far. Be sure to plant each seedling no more than a
hundred feet from another.....if you want viable seed. Closer is
better. The crown of a mature tree will likely be thirty to fifty
feet in diameter. Planting 40 or so feet apart will ensure sufficient
room and greatly facilitate nut production. Remember that even if you
are not interested in propagating more trees, American chestnuts are
delicious (vastly better, if also a lot smaller, than their European
and Asian cousins) and highly nutricious.....a bountiful annual crop
is not only beneficial to wildlife or domestic stock, it is also a
boon at the table. Conversely, if you are not interested in eating
them, spreading the wealth will help to ensure the future of a highly
threatened species.

With respect to that last bit, be prepared to see your trees die. If
they remain isolated, far enough and long enough, they will live to a
ripe old age.....I know of some that are fifty-five years old and
going strong, producing a stupefying crop of seeds annually (unlike
most nut tree species which only produce a bumper crop every few
years). There are NO known blight resistant pure American chestnuts.
Those that survive long do so because no spore laden individuals have
visited them. Brag about and show off your trees by all means, if you
wish, but remember that an unknown chestnut is a safe chestnut.
Isolation is the key to survival.....for now.

There's more.....lots more.....but I have to go make some venison
stroganoff right now. Questions and comments, here or via email, are
most welcome.

giles.

One doesn't see many Chestnut trees over here in S. Wales. Edible chestnuts
are usually bought in the supermarkets. Horse Chestnut trees are not
/that/common but the kids know where they are and raid them in September for
the "conkers" - is that what you call them in the states?

Bill

On 4/23/2010 5:19 PM, Giles wrote:
giles.

chestnuts arrived monday...currently in refrig until i get suitable pots
for planting. our plan is to get them started in a pot, then transplant
once up some size.

fishing season has started in earnest...finally. trust all is well.
give our hellos to becky.

thanks for the gift of these "ghosts". hope we can get them to grow safely.

jeff

On Apr 27, 3:01*pm, DaveS wrote:

They arrived. And will shortly see dirt.
Dave

Good news! The other batches sent out also arrived at their intended
destinations intact.

giles

On Apr 28, 4:44*pm, "Bill Grey" wrote:


One doesn't see many Chestnut trees over here in S. Wales. Edible chestnuts
are usually bought in the supermarkets. *Horse Chestnut trees are not
/that/common but the kids know where they are and raid them in September for
the "conkers" - is that what you call them in the states?

Bill

The term used to be current here but one rarely encounters it
anymore. Not that the term itself has fallen out of favor and been
replaced by another.....it's just that most people under the age of
fifty or so don't have a very good idea (if any) of what either a
chestnut or a horse chestnut is. Chestnuts roasting on an open fire
is merely a curious song lyric to most folks in the U.S. (assuming
they are even familiar with the old Nat King Cole song). Chestnuts
still show up on supermarket shelves, at least here in the upper Great
Lakes region, in late autumn every year, but in numbers that suggest
they are probably doomed to complete oblivion in the not too distant
future. I remember buying and roasting my first chestnuts thirty or
more years ago out of curiosity. I was most unimpressed. However,
these were either Chinese chestnuts or, more likely, the European
variety, both of which are much larger than (roughly three times as
large) and inferior in flavor to the American Chestnut.

Native horse chestnuts (genus Aesculus.....not to be confused with
some old Greek whose name is spelled somewhat differently but
pronounced about the same, as far as I can tell, or with true
chestnuts, genus Castanea) are well represented in North America with
6 species out of the 15-20 known worldwide. Here, they are also (and
about as frequently) called "buckeyes" which also happens to be the
nickname of some college's atheltic teams.

As children, my friends and siblings and I used to collect horse
chestnuts for.....um.....well, presumably for the same murky and
unremembered reasons that children (and adults, for that matter)
around the world have always collected things......mostly for throwing
at one another, I guess. Thrown hard enough, they could hurt. I
suppose that European or chinese chestnuts would do as well, although
at much greater expense. American chestnuts, being much less massive,
would have to be thrown very hard indeed. All this, though, refers to
the nuts sans the outer green husk (exocarp, I think.....not much
interested in looking it up right now). With this outer layer intact,
most of the familiar horse chestnut species could do some fairly
serious damage. However, this is another respect in which the
American chestnut (Castanea dentata) far outshines the rest. The
American chestnut "burr" averages roughly three inches in diameter and
is covered with a very dense coat of extremely sharp spines, a few
hundred to a thousand, I'd estimate. Even merely picking one up as
delicately as possible with bare hands is more likely than not to
result in a few painful pokes. Being hit anywhere with one that has
been thrown, or even gently tossed, is an experience one will never
forget. As a deterent against attack it is unexcelled in the natural
world, though large rocks might be their equal. Any living thing that
can't be stopped by a barrage of chestnut burrs is going to require
heavy firepower.

Interestingly, the chestnut burr is also an extremely formidable
defense against predation. Outside of insects small enough to get in
between the spines, I know of no seed eater (other than a leather clad
human) that can get at the nuts before they are ripe and the burrs
split open of their own accord, at which time they are (or were,
anyway) an extremely important mast crop. Before the trees' demise,
the chestnut was by far the most abundant and regular mast producer in
North America. Historically, within it's native range, the chestnut
was so prolific and so fecund and so regular that year in and year out
it not only outproduced ANY other nut producer, but ALL other nut
producers combined. I know of a place where four chestnuts, all
planted in 1955 and standing about forty feet tall with a crown spread
of similar dimensions, annually carpet the lawn under them with a six
inch thick layer of burrs.

Turkeys, squirrels, bears, racoons, rodents, deer, passengers
pigeons......um.......I digress.

giles

On Apr 29, 7:55*am, jeff wrote:
On 4/23/2010 5:19 PM, Giles wrote:

giles.

chestnuts arrived monday...currently in refrig until i get suitable pots
for planting. *our plan is to get them started in a pot, then transplant
once up some size.

Mine grew to an altitude of about 8-10 inches in their first season.
Your growing season is longer. I assume they will be commensurately
larger. The ones I've seen here at Larry's tree farm (yep, I'm here
again, at play in the groves of the lord) have gotten as tall as 2 to
3 feet in their second season. By the end of their fourth season,
many of them are in the ten to twelve foot range. Have I mentioned
that chestnuts grow FAST!?

fishing season has started in earnest...finally.

Trout season opens first Satruday in May, here. I think I may
actually get out and do some fishing.

trust all is well.

Well, aside from death, taxes, political and economic turmoil, looming
ecological disaster, crime, moral and physical decrepitude and that
ever-pesky graphic proof of the four color theorem......about as well
as can be expected.

You and yours?

give our hellos to becky.

Done.

thanks for the gift of these "ghosts". *hope we can get them to grow safely.

jeff

"ghosts." I like that. It resonates for a variety of reasons.

giles

"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Apr 28, 4:44 pm, "Bill Grey" wrote:


One doesn't see many Chestnut trees over here in S. Wales. Edible
chestnuts
are usually bought in the supermarkets. Horse Chestnut trees are not
/that/common but the kids know where they are and raid them in September
for
the "conkers" - is that what you call them in the states?

Bill

The term used to be current here but one rarely encounters it
anymore. Not that the term itself has fallen out of favor and been
replaced by another.....it's just that most people under the age of
fifty or so don't have a very good idea (if any) of what either a
chestnut or a horse chestnut is. Chestnuts roasting on an open fire
is merely a curious song lyric to most folks in the U.S. (assuming
they are even familiar with the old Nat King Cole song). Chestnuts
still show up on supermarket shelves, at least here in the upper Great
Lakes region, in late autumn every year, but in numbers that suggest
they are probably doomed to complete oblivion in the not too distant
future. I remember buying and roasting my first chestnuts thirty or
more years ago out of curiosity. I was most unimpressed. However,
these were either Chinese chestnuts or, more likely, the European
variety, both of which are much larger than (roughly three times as
large) and inferior in flavor to the American Chestnut.

Native horse chestnuts (genus Aesculus.....not to be confused with
some old Greek whose name is spelled somewhat differently but
pronounced about the same, as far as I can tell, or with true
chestnuts, genus Castanea) are well represented in North America with
6 species out of the 15-20 known worldwide. Here, they are also (and
about as frequently) called "buckeyes" which also happens to be the
nickname of some college's atheltic teams.

As children, my friends and siblings and I used to collect horse
chestnuts for.....um.....well, presumably for the same murky and
unremembered reasons that children (and adults, for that matter)
around the world have always collected things......mostly for throwing
at one another, I guess. Thrown hard enough, they could hurt. I
suppose that European or chinese chestnuts would do as well, although
at much greater expense. American chestnuts, being much less massive,
would have to be thrown very hard indeed. All this, though, refers to
the nuts sans the outer green husk (exocarp, I think.....not much
interested in looking it up right now). With this outer layer intact,
most of the familiar horse chestnut species could do some fairly
serious damage. However, this is another respect in which the
American chestnut (Castanea dentata) far outshines the rest. The
American chestnut "burr" averages roughly three inches in diameter and
is covered with a very dense coat of extremely sharp spines, a few
hundred to a thousand, I'd estimate. Even merely picking one up as
delicately as possible with bare hands is more likely than not to
result in a few painful pokes. Being hit anywhere with one that has
been thrown, or even gently tossed, is an experience one will never
forget. As a deterent against attack it is unexcelled in the natural
world, though large rocks might be their equal. Any living thing that
can't be stopped by a barrage of chestnut burrs is going to require
heavy firepower.

Interestingly, the chestnut burr is also an extremely formidable
defense against predation. Outside of insects small enough to get in
between the spines, I know of no seed eater (other than a leather clad
human) that can get at the nuts before they are ripe and the burrs
split open of their own accord, at which time they are (or were,
anyway) an extremely important mast crop. Before the trees' demise,
the chestnut was by far the most abundant and regular mast producer in
North America. Historically, within it's native range, the chestnut
was so prolific and so fecund and so regular that year in and year out
it not only outproduced ANY other nut producer, but ALL other nut
producers combined. I know of a place where four chestnuts, all
planted in 1955 and standing about forty feet tall with a crown spread
of similar dimensions, annually carpet the lawn under them with a six
inch thick layer of burrs.

Turkeys, squirrels, bears, racoons, rodents, deer, passengers
pigeons......um.......I digress.

giles


Thyanks for your very interesting reply.

As a matter of interest. kids do not throw conkers (horse chestnuts) at one
another, The game of "Conkers" is where two kids have a conker each. This
is pierced and a short length of string passed through the knotted to form a
sort of pendulum. Each kid takes turns to swing his Conker at the other
kid's conker which is held passively. The one whose conker gets smashed is
the loser. We used to harden our conkers by soaking them in vinegar - I
don't really know if this was really effective.

There you go.

Best wishes

Bill

"Giles" wrote in message
...
On Apr 28, 4:44 pm, "Bill Grey" wrote:


One doesn't see many Chestnut trees over here in S. Wales. Edible
chestnuts
are usually bought in the supermarkets. Horse Chestnut trees are not
/that/common but the kids know where they are and raid them in September
for
the "conkers" - is that what you call them in the states?

Bill

The term used to be current here but one rarely encounters it
anymore. Not that the term itself has fallen out of favor and been
replaced by another.....it's just that most people under the age of
fifty or so don't have a very good idea (if any) of what either a
chestnut or a horse chestnut is. Chestnuts roasting on an open fire
is merely a curious song lyric to most folks in the U.S. (assuming
they are even familiar with the old Nat King Cole song). Chestnuts
still show up on supermarket shelves, at least here in the upper Great
Lakes region, in late autumn every year, but in numbers that suggest
they are probably doomed to complete oblivion in the not too distant
future. I remember buying and roasting my first chestnuts thirty or
more years ago out of curiosity. I was most unimpressed. However,
these were either Chinese chestnuts or, more likely, the European
variety, both of which are much larger than (roughly three times as
large) and inferior in flavor to the American Chestnut.

Native horse chestnuts (genus Aesculus.....not to be confused with
some old Greek whose name is spelled somewhat differently but
pronounced about the same, as far as I can tell, or with true
chestnuts, genus Castanea) are well represented in North America with
6 species out of the 15-20 known worldwide. Here, they are also (and
about as frequently) called "buckeyes" which also happens to be the
nickname of some college's atheltic teams.

As children, my friends and siblings and I used to collect horse
chestnuts for.....um.....well, presumably for the same murky and
unremembered reasons that children (and adults, for that matter)
around the world have always collected things......mostly for throwing
at one another, I guess. Thrown hard enough, they could hurt. I
suppose that European or chinese chestnuts would do as well, although
at much greater expense. American chestnuts, being much less massive,
would have to be thrown very hard indeed. All this, though, refers to
the nuts sans the outer green husk (exocarp, I think.....not much
interested in looking it up right now). With this outer layer intact,
most of the familiar horse chestnut species could do some fairly
serious damage. However, this is another respect in which the
American chestnut (Castanea dentata) far outshines the rest. The
American chestnut "burr" averages roughly three inches in diameter and
is covered with a very dense coat of extremely sharp spines, a few
hundred to a thousand, I'd estimate. Even merely picking one up as
delicately as possible with bare hands is more likely than not to
result in a few painful pokes. Being hit anywhere with one that has
been thrown, or even gently tossed, is an experience one will never
forget. As a deterent against attack it is unexcelled in the natural
world, though large rocks might be their equal. Any living thing that
can't be stopped by a barrage of chestnut burrs is going to require
heavy firepower.

Interestingly, the chestnut burr is also an extremely formidable
defense against predation. Outside of insects small enough to get in
between the spines, I know of no seed eater (other than a leather clad
human) that can get at the nuts before they are ripe and the burrs
split open of their own accord, at which time they are (or were,
anyway) an extremely important mast crop. Before the trees' demise,
the chestnut was by far the most abundant and regular mast producer in
North America. Historically, within it's native range, the chestnut
was so prolific and so fecund and so regular that year in and year out
it not only outproduced ANY other nut producer, but ALL other nut
producers combined. I know of a place where four chestnuts, all
planted in 1955 and standing about forty feet tall with a crown spread
of similar dimensions, annually carpet the lawn under them with a six
inch thick layer of burrs.

Turkeys, squirrels, bears, racoons, rodents, deer, passengers
pigeons......um.......I digress.

giles

Further to my other posting, see:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conkers

Regards,

Bill