Scents + ethics/morality

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
snip
A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a sponsorship package of two boats
and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only problem with the whole deal
was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I am a fiberglass
performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in this rig, anyone that knew
me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that! So I politely declined,
and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but disappointed at the same time.

Steve, I'm impressed too, but not disappointed!

Cheers,
Nikolay

I sell products and would never think of selling anything that I would not use
myself.

IMO, pros who endorse products they would not or do not use have no integrity
and their opinion is worth zip.

Companies who let such things happen, ie, they let a pro endorse them even
though the pro coiuld care less about the product, are just as bad.

Brad
Brad Coovert, 2003 Angler of the Year, Greenfield Bassmasters
Please visit our sponsors:
http://www.geocities.com/greenfieldb...ponsorPage.htm
Indianapolis Colts over Tennessee Titans 33-7, 29-27 Go Colts!

"Nikolay" wrote in message
ss.edu...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
snip
A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a sponsorship package of two
boats
and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only problem with the whole
deal
was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I am a fiberglass
performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in this rig, anyone that
knew
me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that! So I politely
declined,
and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but disappointed at the same
time.

Steve, I'm impressed too, but not disappointed!

Yeah, but there's days that I kick myself! Not enough to change my mind, but....... ;-p
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Your reputation was dust in high school Stevo!

Josh - scents work, especially Kick-N-Bass & Smelly Jelly. Lots of pros use
scents. I've seen scents make the difference between success & failure
several times, though I don't feel it often does. I do feel that scents
mask some negative odors, and also that they get you an extra bite or two on
most days from nonaggressive bass. I've yet to see a scented bait make the
bass come running from across the lake.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in message
...

"Josh" wrote in message SNIP

I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor?
Just
wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.

My personal opinion is that it's not right to endorse a product and/or
service/company if the
endorsee (?) doesn't use it. Now, this is just me speaking for myself,
but as many of you know, I'm
working on getting sponsors for my hopefully soon to air television show.
It takes a great deal of
money to get a show on the air and in order to do so, I need sponsors and
their corresponding funds.
BUT, I'm not going to sign a contract unless it is a quality item that I
would consider using
personally.

A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a
sponsorship package of two boats
and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only
problem with the whole deal
was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I
am a fiberglass
performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in
this rig, anyone that knew
me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that!
So I politely declined,
and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but
disappointed at the same time.

I'm not going to even remotely attempt to impose my morals and beliefs on
someone else. I feel that
it's MY reputation on the line if I endorse something and I won't risk my
reputation for something
as trivial as cash or some trinkets. Reputation is like virginity, once
it's gone, there's nothing
that can get it back.

But that's just my opinion,
--
Steve
OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

If you think about it Josh, it's really no different than a Ford salesman
that drives a Chevy to work. I'm not endorsing the practice, but it's
definately no crime.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"Josh" wrote in message
...
Very interesting Rich. I'll continue to use I guess mostly because of
the psychological boost it gives me. Appreciate your insights as always.

And it's pretty obvious that other major league sports figures don't
always use what they endorse. My question was directed at our sport and
those who've attained some degree of success in it professionally.

--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear

That's pretty funny! Take Josh. That guy'll rip the faces off fish all day
but he's worried about morals lol.

He's my buddy, by the way.

Warren
--
http://www.fishingworld.com/MesaTackleSupply/
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com http://www.secretweaponlures.com
http://www.warrenwolk.com/ http://www.tri-statebassmasters.com/

"BassMr." wrote in message
ink.net...
Have you ever heard of Uncle Josh pork frogs and trailers? They have been
around forever.
It is hard today to find a plastic bait that isn't scented,salt
impregnated,or just plain stinks to begin with.It either stinks because it
is manufactured that way or it stinks because you can get a bite with it.
As far as tournaments and winning money,if the bite is tough,pros and
amateurs alike will dip their bait in crap if they think it will get a
bite.
If it was a moral issue,I would be thinking of joining PETA!

"Josh" wrote in message
...
snip Just wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.
--
God Bless America

Josh The Bad Bear
-------------
Josh, this got me thinking.... Warning: this turned out to be a long
response.

In my reply to Jack, I stated my belief that scents are ineffective in
attracting bass. That's not to say they don't make a difference in your
fishing. Here's a distinction that may be obvious to most readers already:
while scents may not influence the hunted, they undoubtedly have an impact
on the hunt.

Wouldn't you say a whole lot of what we do as anglers falls in the category
of ritual rather than true fishing science? I think one of the things we
enjoy about our sport is that it has evolved its own bass angling culture.
And as with every culture, this one has its rituals. Some are grounded in
fact... others in mystical lore and superstition.

Pistol Pete Maravitch wore the same pair of gym socks (without laundering)
to keep his winning streak going. Construction workers top out a building
with a conifer tree. Blood from his first deer is (in some cultures) smeared
on a young hunter's face. Religious people practice rituals to greet the
day, celebrate a meal, initiate special events, invoke blessing for travel,
and so forth. The boys I grew up with could be counted on to produce a
buckeye among the contents of their jeans pockets, and they usually carried
a lucky marble or stone, too.

Just as native Americans stepping out of their wickiup tapped the deerskin
pouch hung by a thong around their neck or belted at their side to make
certain their talismans were secure, I pat my pocket as I head to the truck
to make sure my old pocket knife -- not just any knife, but the "right"
one -- is in its place. The familiar shape that wears a hole over the pocket
of every pair of jeans I own confers a sense of "everything is in its
place."

Some bass anglers feel unprepared if they're not wearing their lucky hats,
shirts, or shoes. Others, noticing that the landing net seems often to be
out of reach when they hang onto a big bass, deliberately leave it in the
rod locker in order to increase their odds. I have an unreasonable
preference for my red Ambassadeur reels over the plain aluminum
ones, even through the guts are identical since I've long ago replaced all
the brass bushings with ball bearings.

One of Bubba's bass fishing rituals was to reach down, pick up a bottle, and
pump one spray of anise-scented oil on his lure every tenth cast. Do these
rituals affect the fish? That's doubtful. Do they increase our catch rate.
If they serve to relax or focus us so that we feel more comfortable and are
mentally better prepared to react to opportunities the bass present, then
maybe they do.

A whiff of anise has the power to transport me back through the years. Once
or twice each season, I'll rummage deep in my tackle box, pull out a small,
yellowed plastic bottle, and squirt a few drops of the scent on my bait just
to conjure up the shades of my long-departed friend and of the huge bass we
caught together. Does it help me catch bass? Who cares? It helps me enjoy my
fishing experience.

Should a manufacturer stop making "feel good" products, or should we anglers
be made to feel like idiots for having and using them? Of course not. After
all, this is a "feel good" sport we engage in -- not one based on our need
for meat or driven entirely on effectiveness, performance, and productivity.
In the final analysis, most of us fish to relax, achieve some sort of
harmony, relieve stress, or enjoy our solitude for awhile. If rituals helps
us achieve that, then we're probably going to keep on observing them -- even
though someone correctly points out that the rituals in themselves have no
discernable effect on our quarry.

If an angler feels like smearing his body with rotton shad and earthworms,
aligning the equipment just so on his boat deck, coating his baits with
scented oils, painting his face blue, and chanting Gaelic war songs as he
leaves the ramp and he thinks any of this will help him achieve his
objectives, I say more power to him.... sit back and enjoy the show.

Now.... about endorsements. Repeat after me.... "It's all entertainment."

TV news.... entertainment. TV news reporting is not about the pursuit of
truth, but about ratings. Ratings drive profits, and entertainment value
drive ratings.

Bass tournaments and all other sports.... entertainment.

Product placements.... entertainment.

Technological advancements in fishing gear, electronics, boats and
motors.... entertainment.

Pros don't sell products; mostly they sell dreams. They sell "be like me."
Remember "I wanna be like Mike"? Five foot-eight inch me wearing a Chicago
Bulls jersey and Nikes had absolutely no chance of dunking a basketball,
much less playing in the NBA, but who cares? I may buy some Kelly
Springfield tires for my pickup one of these days. Think they'll help me
catch bass like Hank Parker? Should I put the battery in my boat that Jimmy
Houston has in his? Would it help to have the make of boat that Kevin Van
Dam drives. Will they help me be a better bass angler? Sure they will....
about as much as coating my baits with anise-flavored oil. My point is just
this -- a pro who is hired to promote a product or does so on his television
show is selling a dream, and people who want to buy into the dream purchase
and use the products. Should a pro prefer the brand of rod, boat, lure, or
sunscreen he's promoting? That would be nice. Do some products actually help
one catch bass. Sure they do; there is some science in this sport, after
all. But much of what we surround ourselves with in our bass fishing culture
is just there for our entertainment and amusement.

As long as you keep all this straight, I think the ethics of endorsements
becomes less of a weighty matter.

Joe

It is all about selling. Endorsing something you wouldn't use personally,
yet you feel is still a good product is OK in my book, because I do it
everyday. KVD has a signature line of products that he never uses in a
tournament situation. Yet, he feels it is a good product for the money.
Morally, ethically he is OK in my book.

When I'm selling GM product I push the positives of that product and down
play its negative. I do the same thing when I sell a Ford, or any other
product we sell. I'm getting paid to do just that. Morally, ethically
wrong? Not in my book, because both products do have good features and both
have their negative. It is the same with fishing products and anglers. They
simply point out the product's positives and if you feel those positives are
what you are looking for, GREAT!

--
Craig Baugher

"Craig" wrote in message
...
It is all about selling. Endorsing something you wouldn't use personally,
yet you feel is still a good product is OK in my book, because I do it
everyday. KVD has a signature line of products that he never uses in a
tournament situation. Yet, he feels it is a good product for the money.
Morally, ethically he is OK in my book.

When I'm selling GM product I push the positives of that product and down
play its negative. I do the same thing when I sell a Ford, or any other
product we sell. I'm getting paid to do just that. Morally, ethically
wrong? Not in my book, because both products do have good features and
both
have their negative. It is the same with fishing products and anglers.

Can I remind you of this next time I see Rdoney pushing the positives of his
Dragon Fly or Boomerang lures?

LOL

Actually I think Rodney is a thinking fisherman. Not a bass focused guy and
certainly a little weird, but he is always thinking.

--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Promote Your Fishing, Boating, or Guide Site for Free
Simply add it to our index page.
No reciprocal link required. (Requested, but not required)

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in message
...

"Josh" wrote in message SNIP

I guess the core question is, does anyone else feel like it's
inappropriate for people to endorse "any product" recieve endorsement
monies
just because it's a sponsor and the mouthpiece is a name competitor?
Just
wondering how rest of you feel. ok...shoot.

My personal opinion is that it's not right to endorse a product and/or
service/company if the
endorsee (?) doesn't use it. Now, this is just me speaking for myself,
but as many of you know, I'm
working on getting sponsors for my hopefully soon to air television show.
It takes a great deal of
money to get a show on the air and in order to do so, I need sponsors and
their corresponding funds.
BUT, I'm not going to sign a contract unless it is a quality item that I
would consider using
personally.

A case in point, I was contacted by a boat company and offered a
sponsorship package of two boats
and some cash. Now, this sounds like a great deal and it was. The only
problem with the whole deal
was it was an aluminum jet drive boat. Anyone that knows me knows that I
am a fiberglass
performance boat enthusiast. If I were to suddenly appear on screen in
this rig, anyone that knew
me would know that I signed the deal only for the money. I won't do that!
So I politely declined,
and explained my stance. The potential sponsor seemed impressed, but
disappointed at the same time.

I'ld have to say that glass boats certainly have their place. I have two of
them, (The Skeeter is for sale) but a well rounded TV show might need to be
open to possibilites that aren't necessarily your own. You might consider
other options. An aluminum jet would be the perfect boat in some
circumstances. I love my Baker tunnel hull, but I just ordered a Waco 16
for back water running myself. If you could have balanced that out with the
potential sponsor you might have been able to offer more and serve more
useful information to more viewers. JMHO.

I do understand your view, and I agree with you. I'm just not sure that you
shouldn't be open to other possibilities in your base choice about glass
boats.

--
Bob La Londe
Yuma, Az
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
Promote Your Fishing, Boating, or Guide Site for Free
Simply add it to our index page.
No reciprocal link required. (Requested, but not required)