Partridge Hackle

I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some soft
hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well, do
anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and then wrap. I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
Dan

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...
I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some soft
hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well, do
anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and then wrap.
I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are getting.

Wolfgang

The only things that you did not cover is...
Did you tie it in by the tip?
When you strip one side, did you remove the side that points foreward for
the direction yo intend to turn?
When you finished, did you stroke the fibers backward and tie them so they
had to stay backward?

I asked this a day or two ago but it never got there!
Did you tie it in by the tip? ie. with a few feather barbules at the
point of the feather?
A Yorkshire Lad

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"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...
I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some
soft
hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well,
do
anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and then
wrap.
I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are
getting.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...
I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some soft
hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well, do
anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and then
wrap.
I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are
getting.

Wolfgang


Yep, s'pose that would be helpful info. Kinda hard to diagnose problems
without symptoms.

Anyway, I was tying up a buncha hare's ear nymphs and thought to add a soft
hackle to a few. I'm tying it in by the barb (after stripping one side and
flaring), and then wrapping. I'm getting a result that looks like I tried to
remove each barbule and tie it in individually. A lumpy, horrible hackle.
Does not lay on the shank, has "ridges" in it, and generally looks like
crap.

Am I using the wrong part of the feather? I wondered this and clipped about
half a feather and tied in as above. Results were better in terms of the way
the hackle laid on the hook, but now the barbules are far too short.

Thanks for the help.....
Dan

I tie a lot of what we call "North Country spider pattern" in the UK.
The basic rule is to tie all "Game" feathers in by the tips, after
separating the feather barbules to a point where the correct hackle
length exists at the tie in point.i.e.. at the separation point
A Yorkshire Lad

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"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...
I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some
soft
hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well,
do
anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and
then
wrap.
I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are
getting.

Wolfgang


Yep, s'pose that would be helpful info. Kinda hard to diagnose
problems
without symptoms.

Anyway, I was tying up a buncha hare's ear nymphs and thought to add a
soft
hackle to a few. I'm tying it in by the barb (after stripping one side
and
flaring), and then wrapping. I'm getting a result that looks like I
tried to
remove each barbule and tie it in individually. A lumpy, horrible
hackle.
Does not lay on the shank, has "ridges" in it, and generally looks
like
crap.

Am I using the wrong part of the feather? I wondered this and clipped
about
half a feather and tied in as above. Results were better in terms of
the way
the hackle laid on the hook, but now the barbules are far too short.

Thanks for the help.....
Dan

Norman Greenwood wrote:
I tie a lot of what we call "North Country spider pattern" in the UK.
The basic rule is to tie all "Game" feathers in by the tips, after
separating the feather barbules to a point where the correct hackle
length exists at the tie in point.i.e.. at the separation point
A Yorkshire Lad

Remove spam filter to reply

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
.com...

I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some

soft

hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well,

do

anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and

then

wrap.

I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are

getting.

Wolfgang


Yep, s'pose that would be helpful info. Kinda hard to diagnose

problems

without symptoms.

Anyway, I was tying up a buncha hare's ear nymphs and thought to add a

soft

hackle to a few. I'm tying it in by the barb (after stripping one side

and

flaring), and then wrapping. I'm getting a result that looks like I

tried to

remove each barbule and tie it in individually. A lumpy, horrible

hackle.

Does not lay on the shank, has "ridges" in it, and generally looks

like

crap.

Am I using the wrong part of the feather? I wondered this and clipped

about

half a feather and tied in as above. Results were better in terms of

the way

the hackle laid on the hook, but now the barbules are far too short.

Thanks for the help.....
Dan

Where abouts in Yorkshire Norman?

I am in Huddersfield

--
Charles

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are
getting.

Wolfgang


Yep, s'pose that would be helpful info. Kinda hard to diagnose problems
without symptoms.

Anyway, I was tying up a buncha hare's ear nymphs and thought to add a
soft
hackle to a few. I'm tying it in by the barb (after stripping one side and
flaring), and then wrapping. I'm getting a result that looks like I tried
to
remove each barbule and tie it in individually. A lumpy, horrible hackle.
Does not lay on the shank, has "ridges" in it, and generally looks like
crap.

Am I using the wrong part of the feather? I wondered this and clipped
about
half a feather and tied in as above. Results were better in terms of the
way
the hackle laid on the hook, but now the barbules are far too short.

"Soft hackle" is a pretty indistinct term. There are a number of ways to
apply body feathers to achieve various effects in soft hackle patterns.
Probably the most common, if that's what you're after (and I think
so.....but I'm still not certain), is to have the base ends of the bards
tied in at or near the hook eye, flaring back at a fairly shallow angle
with the tips pointing back toward the bend, and evenly distributed around
the hook shank. Since body feathers have many small barbules and
micro-barbules whose function is to hold the barbs together, they do not
separate cleanly and individually like good dry fly hackle......they tend to
clump together in more or less random numbers. I assume this is what you
mean by looking "lumpy". If so, this is normal.....it's what it is supposed
to look like.

As for technique, there are a number of ways to manipulate the feather and
still achieve pretty much the same effect. Neither stripping nor clipping
is necessary. I hold the feather by the tip with hackle pliers, trying to
get just enough to be able to tie in with. I then stroke all of the barbs
toward the butt end of the feather. At this point, all the barbs not held
by the pliers have separated into clumps, the center lines of which point
roughly perpendicular to the shaft of the feather. Holding the feather on
top of the hook shank with the tip end toward the eye and the butt end
toward the bend (making sure that the concave side....the side closest to
the bird's body in situ.....is down, thus forming a hill shape) and tie in
just behind the eye with three or four wraps. I then take from one to three
turns with the feather and again tie off with a couple turns of thread.
Then, after stroking the barbs toward the back and holding them in place
against the hook shank, I take a few more turns against the tied in butt
ends of the barbs.....as many as it takes to keep them lying at the desired
angle.

Looking back at your description just now, another interpretation of it
occurred to me. Is it possible that the lumps and ridges you refer to are
the result of holding the barbs against the hook shank and then wrapping
back over them? If so, you've gone too far. In the last step I described
above, the thread should be pushing the tied in ends of the barbs
back......it should not extend far enough back to cover them.

Wolfgang

Daniel
Go to flyfisherman.com, then their bulletin boards, and select the bulletin
board on fly tying. There is a similar d iscussion there with a demo on
tying in softhackle.


"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...
I picked up a Hungarian partridge patch a few days ago to tie some soft
hackle flies. I'm having issues with getting the feather to, well, do
anything, I guess.

I tie it in, flare the barbules, remove them from one side, and then wrap.
I
end up with crap.

Am I using the wrong stuff? Is it purely operator error?

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
Dan

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Daniel-San" wrote in message
m...

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
It would help to know what result your looking for and what you are
getting.

Wolfgang


Yep, s'pose that would be helpful info. Kinda hard to diagnose problems
without symptoms.

Anyway, I was tying up a buncha hare's ear nymphs and thought to add a
soft
hackle to a few. I'm tying it in by the barb (after stripping one side
and
flaring), and then wrapping. I'm getting a result that looks like I
tried
to
remove each barbule and tie it in individually. A lumpy, horrible
hackle.
Does not lay on the shank, has "ridges" in it, and generally looks like
crap.

Am I using the wrong part of the feather? I wondered this and clipped
about
half a feather and tied in as above. Results were better in terms of the
way
the hackle laid on the hook, but now the barbules are far too short.

"Soft hackle" is a pretty indistinct term. There are a number of ways to
apply body feathers to achieve various effects in soft hackle patterns.
Probably the most common, if that's what you're after (and I think
so.....but I'm still not certain), is to have the base ends of the bards
tied in at or near the hook eye, flaring back at a fairly shallow angle
with the tips pointing back toward the bend, and evenly distributed around
the hook shank. Since body feathers have many small barbules and
micro-barbules whose function is to hold the barbs together, they do not
separate cleanly and individually like good dry fly hackle......they tend
to
clump together in more or less random numbers. I assume this is what you
mean by looking "lumpy". If so, this is normal.....it's what it is
supposed
to look like.

As for technique, there are a number of ways to manipulate the feather and
still achieve pretty much the same effect. Neither stripping nor clipping
is necessary. I hold the feather by the tip with hackle pliers, trying to
get just enough to be able to tie in with. I then stroke all of the barbs
toward the butt end of the feather. At this point, all the barbs not held
by the pliers have separated into clumps, the center lines of which point
roughly perpendicular to the shaft of the feather. Holding the feather on
top of the hook shank with the tip end toward the eye and the butt end
toward the bend (making sure that the concave side....the side closest to
the bird's body in situ.....is down, thus forming a hill shape) and tie in
just behind the eye with three or four wraps. I then take from one to
three
turns with the feather and again tie off with a couple turns of thread.
Then, after stroking the barbs toward the back and holding them in place
against the hook shank, I take a few more turns against the tied in butt
ends of the barbs.....as many as it takes to keep them lying at the
desired
angle.

Looking back at your description just now, another interpretation of it
occurred to me. Is it possible that the lumps and ridges you refer to are
the result of holding the barbs against the hook shank and then wrapping
back over them? If so, you've gone too far. In the last step I described
above, the thread should be pushing the tied in ends of the barbs
back......it should not extend far enough back to cover them.

Wolfgang



Thanks! -- that worked perfectly.

Well, as perfectly as I'm capable of, anyway.

Much appreciated.

Dan