7/8 Weight Steelhead Rod Recommendations

Good advice...thanks for the suggestions. I've heard many good things
about the Sage XP. I will cast one before making my final decision.

I had not even considered St. Croix, but can appreciate the workmanship
that must go into their blanks, as I've often drooled over their fine
spinning rods. I'll have to throw a few casts with the model you
mentioned...certainly no reason to spend more than is necessary, heck
maybe I'll be able to buy a 7 AND an 8 weight for less than what I'd
originally planned to spend on a single rod.

In article .com,
"KDawg" wrote:

I had not even considered St. Croix, but can appreciate the workmanship
that must go into their blanks, as I've often drooled over their fine
spinning rods. I'll have to throw a few casts with the model you
mentioned...certainly no reason to spend more than is necessary, heck
maybe I'll be able to buy a 7 AND an 8 weight for less than what I'd
originally planned to spend on a single rod.

I have several St. Croix rods, in all three flavors (fly, spin, baitcasting) and
I don't think you can go wrong with them. Good feel, cast well, and tough as
nails.

One thing to remember - Most rods are designed for and by people who think a 10
pound largemouth bass is a big fish. St. Croix are designed for and by people
that think a 10 pound largemouth is BAIT.

--
"What it all comes to is that the whole structure of space flight as it
stands now is creaking, obsolecent, over-elaborate, decaying. The field is
static; no, worse than that, it's losing ground. By this time, our ships
ought to be sleeker and faster, and able to carry bigger payloads. We ought
to have done away with this dichotomy between ships that can land on a planet,
and ships that can fly from one planet to another." - Senator Bliss Wagoner
James Blish - _They Shall Have Stars_

Now thats an angle that I hadn't considered. Alot of great advice on
this thread. Ken, where should I spend all the money you're saving me?
On Orvis Mirage leaders? I'd thought so ... But seriously, let me
first apologize for not making my intentions clearer. The rod I am
about to purchase will facilitate Steelhead fishing in the Great Lakes
region, but will also be used to reach the occasional bass, salmon, and
maybe even bonefish on the annual pilgramage that we make to the
Florida Keys.

What I'm really looking for is a good all-around rod that can handle a
few monster Steelhead, but also help me to enjoy the last few minutes
of a setting sun while tossing a dozen casts to a stubborn smallmouth.

KDawg wrote:
Looking for a new 7 or 8 weight for Great Lakes Steelheading. I
grealy
enjoy my 9' 5 weight Orvis T3, and had originally considered a second
one, but would like to diversify a bit.

Has anyone had particularily good experience with Sage, Winston,
Burkheimer, or Thomas & Thomas? I'll probably spend $600 - $700,
which
falls in line with upper-tier offerings from each of them. Winston
uses boron, which sounds like a throwback, but I've yet to speak to
anyone that's not motivated by a commission about the benefits of
this
approach. Someone once told me that Thomas & Thomas was an excellent
choice, but then I met a guy that spent an entire summer trying to
get
a broken rod replaced. From my perspective, at this price point, an
unlimited warranty is absolutely required.

Any opinions out there? Thanks in advance!

The Burkheimer rod blanks are about as good as they come. But for the
life of me I dont see how guys can spend 700.00 on a rod, they just are
not worth the money. I custom build rods of all kinds and I get good
money for them but a custom rod is far superior in every way than any
factory. The last rod I built for myself was a 8 dollar blank, 15
dollar reel seat 30 dollars worth of sic guides and 14 dollars worth of
cork for the handle and it cast better than any factory rod in its
catagory. Before I started to build rods I was stuck on Sage, now I
wouldnt touch a sage, there are blanks out there that are just as good
for a quarter of the price. Do your self a favor and go to your local
shop and get the name of a cusom builder and you will get a better rod
for less money. Ps: dont go to your fly shop go to a regular tackle
shop and ask. Hope this helps you out, Bruce

Softhackle wrote:

The Burkheimer rod blanks are about as good as they come. But for the
life of me I dont see how guys can spend 700.00 on a rod, they just are
not worth the money. I custom build rods of all kinds and I get good
money for them but a custom rod is far superior in every way than any
factory. The last rod I built for myself was a 8 dollar blank, 15
dollar reel seat 30 dollars worth of sic guides and 14 dollars worth of
cork for the handle and it cast better than any factory rod in its
catagory. Before I started to build rods I was stuck on Sage, now I
wouldnt touch a sage, there are blanks out there that are just as good
for a quarter of the price. Do your self a favor and go to your local
shop and get the name of a cusom builder and you will get a better rod
for less money. Ps: dont go to your fly shop go to a regular tackle
shop and ask. Hope this helps you out, Bruce

Seems like all custom rod builders read from the same script.
If a custom rod wrapper were to wrap a Sage blank or a Winston
blank it would end up costing *more* than the factory version.
Sage & Winston aren't stupid, they price their blanks at the
point where material and labor costs combine to make the custom
rod more expensive.

Now you can make the argument that the custom rod is marginally
better in terms of cosmetics or spline placement or better cork
etc, but I think whatever slight improvements made to the finished
rod is far outweighed by the warranty you get with a factory rod.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken you are dead wrong about everything you just wrote. I can build a
better rod in every way than any factory. Have you ever had a reel seat
come loose, guide finish cracking, guides come loose or fall out, cork
thats all pitted. On my rods thise things dont happen ever. My rods are
built with single foot ceramic fly guides that are better in every way
and cast further than any rod with snake guides. My rods are fitted to
the caster not the other way around. My guides are placed where they
should be, not set to some standard placement that means nothing
because every blank is different even in the same model. When you bend
the blank it shows you were the guides need to be placed to keep the
line off the blank for better distance. I can make my rods any color I
choose, I can do feather inlays, butt wraps, use the best glue, finish,
the best components money can buy. (the factory doesnt do that) Seems
to me all factory guys come from the same mold and its and old mold, if
you are still fishing any rods with snake guides you are way behined
the curve. All you are paying for in a factory rod is a warrenty and
you are getting a product that is set up for the average guy with
average components and is of average quality. I can tell you have never
fishied a good custom rod or your opinion would be different, come to
the Penns Clave and I'll show show you a real fly rod. Bruce Fisher

Softhackle wrote:
Ken you are dead wrong about everything you just wrote.

Well, I disagree of course, but then it wouldn't be the first
time that everything I wrote was dead wrong.

snip
I can tell you have never
fishied a good custom rod or your opinion would be different, come to
the Penns Clave and I'll show show you a real fly rod. Bruce Fisher

Actually I have fished with what I assume was a good custom rod.
Wayne Knight let me play with a custom made Winston in Wisconsin
one time. Beautiful stick, gorgeous feather inlays, perfect in
every respect, built by Tom Hargrove if I'm not mistaken. I didn't
notice any difference between that Winston and my own factory
Winston except that the custom rod was prettier to look at.

Penn's is not on my calendar, I'm planning to be in Bryson City,
North Cackalacky from May 8-13. Come on down, Wayno's gonna wear
an Illini sweatshirt and buy dinner at the Fryemont. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken I am not saying all factory rods are bad because thats just not the
case. But let me put it to you this way a custom rod will hold up
better over time. A custom rod will be less expensive for the same
blank and components because the customer is not paying for a warrenty.
A custom rod built by a qualified professional will absolutly cast with
less effort and less friction simply because it will have ceramic
guides on it. Until the factory starts using ceramic guides their rods
they will be inferior. A custom rod is fitted to the customer and
designed for a specific type of fishing and the customer can choose any
layout he wants. The factory isnt interested in any of these things and
certainly not quality they seem to be interested in quantity. They dont
use the best glues, finish or components because they know the rod will
be broken in a year or two and they'll have to replace it. And this
comes from a guy that is in love with his sage 490-4 LL, its damn near
my best friend. But the rod has deteriorated so badly over the last 10
years that it needs to be stripped and refinished. The reel seat fell
off two years ago and I had to reglue it, the guides are all cracked
and water had rotted the threads. These things dont happen with well
build custom's. So its not the pretty stuff that makes it custom its
the quality, cosmetics are secondary. With all this being said the
thing that kills me is the rod blanks for any major company only cost
about 3 dollars to manufacture, 5 with labor. My buddy is a distributor
for serveral major midwest companys and if you only knew what he pays
for his stuff you would fall off your chair. So for myself I would
never pay more than 50.00 for a blank no matter how strait or perfect
the paint job, or how nice it bends. Never in my wildest dreams did I
think I'd see the day when a graphite fly rod sold for 700.00 but they
do and people actually think they are better then custom's because of
the price. It amazes me what advertising can do to a culture. I'll give
you this the Winstons are pretty damn nice maybe even the best of the
factory rods but for 700.00 I could build myself 3 great rods. Bruce

Softhackle wrote:
A custom rod will be less expensive for the same
blank and components because the customer is not paying for a
warrenty.

For the last freeking time, neither you nor anyone else can point to
any impirical evidence that the advent of the unconditional life time
warrantied rods drove the cost up. The year when the major *premium*
rod makers added the unconditional warranty (either 1997 or 1998), the
prices either remained flat or did not increase any more than they been
increasing in the years prior. The only thing that changed was the
nature of the warranty on older rods, Sage retroactvely applied the
warranty, Winston offered some owners of certain rods an extended
warranty for a fee, Scott and T&T just applied to rods purchased from
that point forward.

A custom rod built by a qualified professional will absolutly cast
with
less effort and less friction simply because it will have ceramic
guides on it. Until the factory starts using ceramic guides their
rods
they will be inferior. A custom rod is fitted to the customer and
designed for a specific type of fishing and the customer can choose
any
layout he wants.

Of the last 10 rods I have purchased, seven have been custom made for
me. Some, but not all, had ceramic guides, and I personally cannot tell
the difference in their action but I can tell the difference in the
cosmetics. The only other difference is in the cork handle, my custom
rods generally have wider cork grips, which I believe to me more
comfortable after a day of fishing.

The factory isnt interested in any of these things and
certainly not quality they seem to be interested in quantity. They
dont
use the best glues, finish or components because they know the rod
will
be broken in a year or two and they'll have to replace it. And this
comes from a guy that is in love with his sage 490-4 LL, its damn
near
my best friend. But the rod has deteriorated so badly over the last
10
years that it needs to be stripped and refinished. The reel seat fell
off two years ago and I had to reglue it, the guides are all cracked
and water had rotted the threads.

Sorry, sounds to me like it was a rod that was not cared for. I've got
early model factory rods that don't have that problem becasue they are
dried before they get sealed in the tube if they got wet, cleaned
periodically, even waxed once a year. Every rod in my *collection*
including my cane rods were made to be fished and have been fished,
dropped in the stream, used to break falls, tangled in trees, etc. I
have been careful to avoid doors, but I have been known to drive off
with them on top of the vehicle, luckily none have been run over yet
when doing that.

These things dont happen with well
build custom's. So its not the pretty stuff that makes it custom its
the quality, cosmetics are secondary.

I would think if I did not care for the rods, even the custom rods
would suffer damage.

With all this being said the
thing that kills me is the rod blanks for any major company only cost
about 3 dollars to manufacture, 5 with labor.

If you are talking about mass produced imported blanks, maybe.
Otherwise you are seriously mistaken. I was part of an investor group
that tried to purchase one of the major rod makers in the late 90's. US
rolled blanks with US labor cost, the costs were higher than you
assert.

My buddy is a distributor
for serveral major midwest companys and if you only knew what he pays
for his stuff you would fall off your chair. So for myself I would
never pay more than 50.00 for a blank no matter how strait or perfect
the paint job, or how nice it bends.

Good for you.

Never in my wildest dreams did I
think I'd see the day when a graphite fly rod sold for 700.00 but
they
do and people actually think they are better then custom's because of
the price. It amazes me what advertising can do to a culture. I'll
give
you this the Winstons are pretty damn nice maybe even the best of the
factory rods but for 700.00 I could build myself 3 great rods.

I think there are too many reverse snobs who get hung up on what a rod
cost or does not. Especially in todays market. Some folks define good
in what a rod does or does not do in their hands, other define it in
terms of the fish handling ability, others in the appearance. Premium
rods, if one can afford them, are usually sold from specialized stores
and priced using a margin vs volume market philosophy. If you want a
factory winston, that's what they cost? Do I think a winston wt rod is
a better fishing rod than a TFO Ticr? Hell yes and not just because of
the price, do I think a Winston LT is a better fishing rod than a Sage
Discovery? hell no even if the cosmetics are better and it cost more.
It would be nice if rods had the same price point differences as does
imported hackle vs genetic hackle but it doesn't. And I don't think
I've ever seen anyone assert that an imported asian neck is "just as
good" as a Grade I Whiting neck.

I would hope as a builder you could build three rods with winston
blanks for the price of one factory rod. However if you were in the
business of making and selling rods as your sole source of income, I
guaran-damn-tee you that you would not be selling the rods for what
they *cost*. Otherwise you would not be making many rods for long or
you would starve.