Foam Crayfish question

"sandy" wrote in message
. ..
http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...nd_shrimp.html

The above is my favorite Crayfish pattern. I caught my biggest brown
in long time on this fly, on the lower Madison, late last fall.

After you catch the first fish, if you hold the fly underneath your net
and squeeze-pump the foam body of the fly a few times, as the scent-laden
fish slime runs down off the net.....then the fly suddenly
becomes noticably, substantially more effective.

(snip)
/* Sandy Pittendrigh

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
I watch quite a few and the orientation is always to scurry back with their
backs to the top as they seek cover. Orientation would seem to me, for
tying, would be to get the hook point away from the bottom stuff.
But, I have seen them, when they were maybe kinda kinkie (sp) they would get
in some different positions.
For mine I always use hook gap up with there being the top of the fly along
the shank.
So I'm just curious.
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Dave Wrote:

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
Hi Dave:

Good questions. Actually that fly has no hook at all yet.
I tie them on a thin needle, finish the fly, slide it off
the needle and then add the hook later, almost as an afterthought.
I photographed that one before the hook was attached.
You can attach the hook any way you want.


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.


--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.


"sandy" wrote in message
...

Dave Wrote:

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some
questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
Hi Dave:

Good questions. Actually that fly has no hook at all yet.
I tie them on a thin needle, finish the fly, slide it off
the needle and then add the hook later, almost as an afterthought.
I photographed that one before the hook was attached.
You can attach the hook any way you want.


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.


--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Bill McNulty wrote:
Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.

Actually I could just as easily make the reverse argument.
I first published this fly in a magazine back in the late
1980s. Can't remember which one: was it Marty Sherman's Flyfishing,
or TU's Trout...something like that.
I tied it with chamois then, instead of foam.
Then I added foam underneath the chamois, and then
I threw out the chamois.

Claiming ownership of a pattern seldom turns out well.
When I first published the Chamois pattern (same as this one,
with chamois swapped out for foam) I immediately got into
an acrimonious ownership dispute with a well known fly
tier who wanted to claim ownership for some obscure royalty
reasons. My photograph appeared in print before his, so
I won the ownership dispute.....no royalties though.

If the Clouser had foam pinchers, like mine, then it would be good fly.
:-)

--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

"Bill McNulty" wrote in message
news:l2DXe.12788$zG1.12673@trnddc05...
Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to
use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.

(snip)

Hello Bill,
The Clouser Crayfish is a good pattern. I've had good success with it when
I lived out on the right side of the US. Still carry some in my fly boxes
out here in the wilderness.
Talked to Bob Clouser yesterday about any changes he has made to the
pattern. He said no, since it seems to work well. I have used feather,
squirrel, poly, and foam pinchers. Per Bob yesterday, he likes to dead
drift the pattern. I mostly like to give a little lifting and dropping
action . . .depending on the color. All work, depending on the
presentation. Heck I used to tie the Whitlock pattern for a long time,
because it looked neat. I still have them too. ( but it is still all
presentation) Heck, a woolly bugger can do pretty well in many situations.
I think it is fun to play around with patterns, and I think that is what
Sandy is doing . . .heh . . .heh . . .but he does seem to like the foam
stuff.
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Try wrapping the shank with lead wire for weight.
Anyone who flyfishes the Penobscot in Maine better go prepared with dozens
of Clouser's crayfish in rust or olive green.Basically the only lure that
produces consistently excluding topwater.


"Dave Mohnsen" wrote in message
k.net...

"Bill McNulty" wrote in message
news:l2DXe.12788$zG1.12673@trnddc05...
Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to
use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.

(snip)

Hello Bill,
The Clouser Crayfish is a good pattern. I've had good success with it
when
I lived out on the right side of the US. Still carry some in my fly boxes
out here in the wilderness.
Talked to Bob Clouser yesterday about any changes he has made to the
pattern. He said no, since it seems to work well. I have used feather,
squirrel, poly, and foam pinchers. Per Bob yesterday, he likes to dead
drift the pattern. I mostly like to give a little lifting and dropping
action . . .depending on the color. All work, depending on the
presentation. Heck I used to tie the Whitlock pattern for a long time,
because it looked neat. I still have them too. ( but it is still all
presentation) Heck, a woolly bugger can do pretty well in many
situations.
I think it is fun to play around with patterns, and I think that is what
Sandy is doing . . .heh . . .heh . . .but he does seem to like the foam
stuff.
DaveMohnsen
Denver

sandy wrote:


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.

Hmmm ... it seems counter-intuitive to add weight to the pinchers.
Don't crawfish raise their claws/pinchers when in the defensive
position? Seems like you'd want the pinchers to float higher than the tail.


Chuck Vance

Conan The Librarian wrote:
sandy wrote:

Hmmm ... it seems counter-intuitive to add weight to the pinchers.
Don't crawfish raise their claws/pinchers when in the defensive
position? Seems like you'd want the pinchers to float higher than the
tail.

I really do need to make a photo sequence. This is a good fly.
It isn't new. I've been fishing this pattern for several years now.

I don't add the weight to the pinchers. I add it to the narrow
length of foam that connects the two pinchers. The fly is made
from two pieces of foam: one tapered, tube-like piece for the body
and one roughly "U" shaped piece that makes the pinchers, where
the ends of the "U" are fat enough to carve out pinchers on each end.

The bottom of the U gets wrapped in a nylon netting (gray-dyed spawn
sack) to give it enough strength. Without the spawn sack reinforcement
at the bottom of the U, the pinchers often separate and break off, after
repeated casting. If I want to add weight (I *always* do) I wrap 2-4
small split shots into the nylon netting at the bottom of the pincher U.
Then I add a small dab of clear water-based fabric cement, and then
put the fly together. The front end of the thorax gets slit horizontally
with a razor blade, in order to receive the U shaped pincher.
A few well-placed thread wraps sews it all up.

Fish grab onto these flies and they don't let go.
Have you ever caught a crab that wouldn't let go of a piece of meat
tied to a string? Every kid has done that once or twice. Fish hang
onto soft crayfish patterns like a crab to a piece of meat.
Sometimes you set the hook and it doesn't work. And then bang, bang,
bang, they hit again anyway.




--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Hmmm ... it seems counter-intuitive to add weight to the pinchers.
Don't crawfish raise their claws/pinchers when in the defensive
position? Seems like you'd want the pinchers to float higher than the tail.


......I don't add weight to the pinchers.
The pinchers are made from a U-shaped piece of
foam, where the ends of the U form the pinchers.
To add weight I put one or two split shots onto
the center-bottom of the U, wrap them with spawn
sack (see the photo) and then insert the U into
a slit in the thorax. That puts the weight dead
center in the middle of the thorax. I do this
because I like to make modular flies that are
independent of the hook.

To add a hook...well, I can't remember the hook-style
name, I'll have to add photos. I use hooks with a
slightly bent shank right behind the eye, that look
a little like a plastic worm hook. Then I push the
point of the hook through the thorax from below, so
only the point of the hook emerges out the top of
the thorax. The I wrap a few whips over the body,
at the tail at the eye of the hook, to keep the body
from sliding back on the hook. You can also add
a wrap or two (and/or skip the hidden split shots)
to the shank, before threading the hook, so the lead
is exposed on the shank, on the underside of the body.
Both methods work.

This hook arrangement is similar to the way spin
fishermen "bait" a soft molded worm or lizzard on
a much larger soft-bait hook. The advantage is that
a) it works
b) the hook is well hidden in the body.

I've had some major webmaster work bogging me down,
last few evenings, else I would have added more tying
sequence photos already. This isn't an experimental
fly anymore. I've been fishing it for a long time.
Years, in fact.