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#31
December 6th, 2005, 06:33 PM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
[top posting corrected]
"Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:YG8lf.137006$y_1.73889@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message k.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:G76lf.136987$y_1.135187@edtnps89... http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwa...ent/index.html http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=221 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...ide_400kyr.png http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/02-03/05-12/warming.html http://www.innovations-report.com/ht...ort-18375.html http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1110222129.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../holocene.html http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-1.htm http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=154 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-5.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa...paleolast.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=180 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.radix.net/~bobg/climate/halpern.trap.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142 Proof is also used outside of mathmatics. Been to court for a traffic ticket? And you use things like Wikipedia. They are in the news for the fact that the facts may not be true. And the question regards Global Warming is what is the cause? What specifically did you find wrong with the evidence and explanation I presented? You need more proof than what you post Just curious: what would you consider convincing evidence (proof, if you prefer)? Something other than you have shown. C'mon! You reject all the data from all the scientific institutions specializing in atmosphere ocean and climate, you reject the opinions of institutions like NASA GISS, NOAA, BAS, EPA, NAS etc etc and glibly demand proof. I'm just asking you, what is missing? What would you accept as "the smoking gun" of findings? Do you need proof that the CO2 increase is anthropogenic? That the temperature is rising? That is rising at an unatural rate? That it is higher now than in thousands of years? That CO2 absorbs IR radiation? That ancient ice is melting around the globe? That ocean temperatures are rising? That CO2 in the ocean is rising? That in the ancient past massive influxes of GHG shot the temperature up for a hundred thousand years? Would all of that convince you? I note that you did not answer the question. What evidence would convince you that AGW is real and dangerous? What problems did you find with the pages I presented, aside from the wiki ones which I don't mid withdrawing? And the Martian icecaps are also melting faster than normal. Our CO2 jumping over there? First, it is a single ice feature that has been observed, so it is a little premature to infer a global behaviour from this, don't you think? Second, we have observations over the last 10 years only, so it is unreasonable to devine what is "normal" from such a limited timeframe. Maybe it is over fishing of the seas, and we are getting too much ocean plankton and algae that are affecting the ocean temps and the heating. Maybe there is research and data from experts to prefer over the non-sensical WAG's of Bill McKee on usenet. CO2 a adjunct. If it was so simple, then all the scientists, or at least a supra majority could agree on the causes. It is not simple, but it is reasonably well understood. And lets see, NOAA, GISS, IPCC, BAS, EPA, NAS, RS of UK, and every other major scientific institution and 95+% of atmospheric, oceanic and climate scientists do believe that anthropogenic CO2 is driving the current global warming, so the agreement you seek is already here. Maybe it is the fact that we are overdue for a magnetic poll shift and more UV is reaching the earth. You only want to believe in your preset ideas. You are not open to real science. Present some. -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com") 
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#32
December 6th, 2005, 06:45 PM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
"Coby Beck" wrote in message news:ZPklf.137519$y_1.112054@edtnps89... [top posting corrected] -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com") Same top posting you did. And if it was so simple, even you would get it.
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#33
December 7th, 2005, 12:25 AM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
. net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:ZPklf.137519$y_1.112054@edtnps89... [top posting corrected] Same top posting you did. And if it was so simple, even you would get it. You forgot, well the whole point! [top posting corrected] "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:YG8lf.137006$y_1.73889@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message k.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:G76lf.136987$y_1.135187@edtnps89... http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwa...ent/index.html http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=221 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...ide_400kyr.png http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/02-03/05-12/warming.html http://www.innovations-report.com/ht...ort-18375.html http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1110222129.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../holocene.html http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-1.htm http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=154 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-5.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa...paleolast.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=180 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.radix.net/~bobg/climate/halpern.trap.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142 Proof is also used outside of mathmatics. Been to court for a traffic ticket? And you use things like Wikipedia. They are in the news for the fact that the facts may not be true. And the question regards Global Warming is what is the cause? What specifically did you find wrong with the evidence and explanation I presented? You need more proof than what you post Just curious: what would you consider convincing evidence (proof, if you prefer)? Something other than you have shown. C'mon! You reject all the data from all the scientific institutions specializing in atmosphere ocean and climate, you reject the opinions of institutions like NASA GISS, NOAA, BAS, EPA, NAS etc etc and glibly demand proof. I'm just asking you, what is missing? What would you accept as "the smoking gun" of findings? Do you need proof that the CO2 increase is anthropogenic? That the temperature is rising? That is rising at an unatural rate? That it is higher now than in thousands of years? That CO2 absorbs IR radiation? That ancient ice is melting around the globe? That ocean temperatures are rising? That CO2 in the ocean is rising? That in the ancient past massive influxes of GHG shot the temperature up for a hundred thousand years? Would all of that convince you? I note that you did not answer the question. What evidence would convince you that AGW is real and dangerous? What problems did you find with the pages I presented, aside from the wiki ones which I don't mid withdrawing? And the Martian icecaps are also melting faster than normal. Our CO2 jumping over there? First, it is a single ice feature that has been observed, so it is a little premature to infer a global behaviour from this, don't you think? Second, we have observations over the last 10 years only, so it is unreasonable to devine what is "normal" from such a limited timeframe. Maybe it is over fishing of the seas, and we are getting too much ocean plankton and algae that are affecting the ocean temps and the heating. Maybe there is research and data from experts to prefer over the non-sensical WAG's of Bill McKee on usenet. CO2 a adjunct. If it was so simple, then all the scientists, or at least a supra majority could agree on the causes. It is not simple, but it is reasonably well understood. And lets see, NOAA, GISS, IPCC, BAS, EPA, NAS, RS of UK, and every other major scientific institution and 95+% of atmospheric, oceanic and climate scientists do believe that anthropogenic CO2 is driving the current global warming, so the agreement you seek is already here. Maybe it is the fact that we are overdue for a magnetic poll shift and more UV is reaching the earth. You only want to believe in your preset ideas. You are not open to real science. Present some. -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")
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#34
December 7th, 2005, 03:41 AM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
"Coby Beck" wrote in message news:WZplf.138403$y_1.48075@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message . net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:ZPklf.137519$y_1.112054@edtnps89... [top posting corrected] Same top posting you did. And if it was so simple, even you would get it. You forgot, well the whole point! [top posting corrected] "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:YG8lf.137006$y_1.73889@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message k.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:G76lf.136987$y_1.135187@edtnps89... http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwa...ent/index.html http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=221 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...ide_400kyr.png http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/02-03/05-12/warming.html http://www.innovations-report.com/ht...ort-18375.html http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1110222129.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../holocene.html http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-1.htm http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=154 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-5.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa...paleolast.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=180 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.radix.net/~bobg/climate/halpern.trap.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142 Proof is also used outside of mathmatics. Been to court for a traffic ticket? And you use things like Wikipedia. They are in the news for the fact that the facts may not be true. And the question regards Global Warming is what is the cause? What specifically did you find wrong with the evidence and explanation I presented? You need more proof than what you post Just curious: what would you consider convincing evidence (proof, if you prefer)? Something other than you have shown. C'mon! You reject all the data from all the scientific institutions specializing in atmosphere ocean and climate, you reject the opinions of institutions like NASA GISS, NOAA, BAS, EPA, NAS etc etc and glibly demand proof. I'm just asking you, what is missing? What would you accept as "the smoking gun" of findings? Do you need proof that the CO2 increase is anthropogenic? That the temperature is rising? That is rising at an unatural rate? That it is higher now than in thousands of years? That CO2 absorbs IR radiation? That ancient ice is melting around the globe? That ocean temperatures are rising? That CO2 in the ocean is rising? That in the ancient past massive influxes of GHG shot the temperature up for a hundred thousand years? Would all of that convince you? I note that you did not answer the question. What evidence would convince you that AGW is real and dangerous? What problems did you find with the pages I presented, aside from the wiki ones which I don't mid withdrawing? And the Martian icecaps are also melting faster than normal. Our CO2 jumping over there? First, it is a single ice feature that has been observed, so it is a little premature to infer a global behaviour from this, don't you think? Second, we have observations over the last 10 years only, so it is unreasonable to devine what is "normal" from such a limited timeframe. Maybe it is over fishing of the seas, and we are getting too much ocean plankton and algae that are affecting the ocean temps and the heating. Maybe there is research and data from experts to prefer over the non-sensical WAG's of Bill McKee on usenet. CO2 a adjunct. If it was so simple, then all the scientists, or at least a supra majority could agree on the causes. It is not simple, but it is reasonably well understood. And lets see, NOAA, GISS, IPCC, BAS, EPA, NAS, RS of UK, and every other major scientific institution and 95+% of atmospheric, oceanic and climate scientists do believe that anthropogenic CO2 is driving the current global warming, so the agreement you seek is already here. Maybe it is the fact that we are overdue for a magnetic poll shift and more UV is reaching the earth. You only want to believe in your preset ideas. You are not open to real science. Present some. -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com") You present proof that CO2 is the culprit. Not someone's opinion. And since we have had global warming and global cooling cycles longer than homo-sapiens has been here, prove that the CO2 is the cause, and not the sun cycles, etc. You give a lot more power to man than we have. One large volcanic eruption dumps more chemicals into the atmosphere than man has done in the last 100 years. Krakatoa caused freezing temps in July in the mid-west. There is nothing that I could say or post to change your mind. You have accepted junk science and your mind is locked.
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#35
December 7th, 2005, 07:39 AM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
Bill McKee wrote: You present proof that CO2 is the culprit. No, he presents evidence, you dim bulb. You have accepted junk science Sure, right. More Americana. plonk http://cosmic.lifeform.org http://cosmic.lifeform.net
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#36
December 7th, 2005, 07:52 AM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
wrote in message oups.com... Bill McKee wrote: You present proof that CO2 is the culprit. No, he presents evidence, you dim bulb. You have accepted junk science Sure, right. More Americana. plonk http://cosmic.lifeform.org http://cosmic.lifeform.net Since you plonked me, you won't see this. You seem to be an idiot and anti-american also. So go fornicate yourself. And if you get in trouble again, don't call us.
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#37
December 7th, 2005, 10:48 AM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
In article ,
"Bill McKee" wrote: "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:WZplf.138403$y_1.48075@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message . net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:ZPklf.137519$y_1.112054@edtnps89... [top posting corrected] Same top posting you did. And if it was so simple, even you would get it. You forgot, well the whole point! [top posting corrected] "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:YG8lf.137006$y_1.73889@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message k.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:G76lf.136987$y_1.135187@edtnps89... http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwa...ent/index.html http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=221 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...ide_400kyr.png http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/02-03/05-12/warming.html http://www.innovations-report.com/ht...port-18375.htm l http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1110222129.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../holocene.html http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-1.htm http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=154 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-5.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa...paleolast.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=180 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.radix.net/~bobg/climate/halpern.trap.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142 Proof is also used outside of mathmatics. Been to court for a traffic ticket? And you use things like Wikipedia. They are in the news for the fact that the facts may not be true. And the question regards Global Warming is what is the cause? What specifically did you find wrong with the evidence and explanation I presented? You need more proof than what you post Just curious: what would you consider convincing evidence (proof, if you prefer)? Something other than you have shown. C'mon! You reject all the data from all the scientific institutions specializing in atmosphere ocean and climate, you reject the opinions of institutions like NASA GISS, NOAA, BAS, EPA, NAS etc etc and glibly demand proof. I'm just asking you, what is missing? What would you accept as "the smoking gun" of findings? Do you need proof that the CO2 increase is anthropogenic? That the temperature is rising? That is rising at an unatural rate? That it is higher now than in thousands of years? That CO2 absorbs IR radiation? That ancient ice is melting around the globe? That ocean temperatures are rising? That CO2 in the ocean is rising? That in the ancient past massive influxes of GHG shot the temperature up for a hundred thousand years? Would all of that convince you? I note that you did not answer the question. What evidence would convince you that AGW is real and dangerous? What problems did you find with the pages I presented, aside from the wiki ones which I don't mid withdrawing? And the Martian icecaps are also melting faster than normal. Our CO2 jumping over there? First, it is a single ice feature that has been observed, so it is a little premature to infer a global behaviour from this, don't you think? Second, we have observations over the last 10 years only, so it is unreasonable to devine what is "normal" from such a limited timeframe. Maybe it is over fishing of the seas, and we are getting too much ocean plankton and algae that are affecting the ocean temps and the heating. Maybe there is research and data from experts to prefer over the non-sensical WAG's of Bill McKee on usenet. CO2 a adjunct. If it was so simple, then all the scientists, or at least a supra majority could agree on the causes. It is not simple, but it is reasonably well understood. And lets see, NOAA, GISS, IPCC, BAS, EPA, NAS, RS of UK, and every other major scientific institution and 95+% of atmospheric, oceanic and climate scientists do believe that anthropogenic CO2 is driving the current global warming, so the agreement you seek is already here. Maybe it is the fact that we are overdue for a magnetic poll shift and more UV is reaching the earth. You only want to believe in your preset ideas. You are not open to real science. Present some. -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com") You present proof that CO2 is the culprit. Not someone's opinion. Ever hear of scientific journals? Read some. Read the IPCC report. Read the National Academy of Sciences report. And since we have had global warming and global cooling cycles longer than homo-sapiens has been here, prove that the CO2 is the cause, and not the sun cycles, etc. See above. You give a lot more power to man than we have. One large volcanic eruption dumps more chemicals into the atmosphere than man has done in the last 100 years. Not CO2. Krakatoa caused freezing temps in July in the mid-west. Yes, with particulates. There is nothing that I could say or post to change your mind. Unfortunately, you choose to remain ignorant. You have accepted junk science and your mind is locked. Yeah, sure. You're the big knowledgeable scientist, and all of us, all those publishing, all those on the IPCC, all those in the NAS, know nothing. You really are stupid.
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#38
December 7th, 2005, 03:49 PM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
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#39
December 7th, 2005, 08:17 PM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
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#40
December 7th, 2005, 09:54 PM
posted to alt.global-warming,sci.environment,talk.environment,rec.outdoors.fishing
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Marine Food Chain Affected by Global Warming
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:WZplf.138403$y_1.48075@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message ink.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:YG8lf.137006$y_1.73889@edtnps89... "Bill McKee" wrote in message k.net... "Coby Beck" wrote in message news:G76lf.136987$y_1.135187@edtnps89... http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwa...ent/index.html http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=221 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...ide_400kyr.png http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/02-03/05-12/warming.html http://www.innovations-report.com/ht...ort-18375.html http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1110222129.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa.../holocene.html http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-1.htm http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=154 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/figspm-5.htm http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globa...paleolast.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=180 http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm http://www.radix.net/~bobg/climate/halpern.trap.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142 Proof is also used outside of mathmatics. Been to court for a traffic ticket? And you use things like Wikipedia. They are in the news for the fact that the facts may not be true. And the question regards Global Warming is what is the cause? What specifically did you find wrong with the evidence and explanation I presented? You need more proof than what you post Just curious: what would you consider convincing evidence (proof, if you prefer)? .... CO2 a adjunct. If it was so simple, then all the scientists, or at least a supra majority could agree on the causes. It is not simple, but it is reasonably well understood. And lets see, NOAA, GISS, IPCC, BAS, EPA, NAS, RS of UK, and every other major scientific institution and 95+% of atmospheric, oceanic and climate scientists do believe that anthropogenic CO2 is driving the current global warming, so the agreement you seek is already here. Maybe it is the fact that we are overdue for a magnetic poll shift and more UV is reaching the earth. You only want to believe in your preset ideas. You are not open to real science. Present some. You present proof that CO2 is the culprit. Not someone's opinion. I prefer to call it solid evidence, but so far so good. And since we have had global warming and global cooling cycles longer than homo-sapiens has been here, prove that the CO2 is the cause, and not the sun cycles, etc. It is not required that CO2 be the root cause of every climate shift in history in order for it to be the cause of today's. Similar natural events can have different causes, besides today's event is not similar to many past events. You give a lot more power to man than we have. This is an assumption you prefer to believe in, however the evidence contradicts it. One large volcanic eruption dumps more chemicals into the atmosphere than man has done in the last 100 years. This is untrue. I respectfully suggest that you check where ever you heard that from and mentally flag every other "fact" you got from there as unreliable, this is undoubtably a simple lie at whatever its original source. Volcanic action results in emissions of around 1/150th of human emissions. http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html Krakatoa caused freezing temps in July in the mid-west. I have not heard this before. Do you have a reference? Regardless, the cooling effect of large volcanic eruptions is short lived (a few years) and is the result of dust cast high into the atmosphere reducing sunlight to the surface. It is true a nice constant series of major eruptions, perfectly timed could offset the warming of CO2 rises. Not very likely to work out so well. There is nothing that I could say or post to change your mind. I agree this is looking pretty unlikely at the moment. You have accepted junk science and your mind is locked. I have presented references to all the best scientific organizations that deal with climate. You don't read it, call it "junk science" and then tell *me* that *my* mind is locked?? Very rich... -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")
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