Cheney shoots someone (I'm not kidding)

Tim J. wrote:

You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative, which he has proven
he's not.

Bingo.

The problem is that Rove, Bush's brain, has so far succeeded in selling
the notion that you are by definition a conservative if and only if you
support Bush. Can I assume that you, as a conservative, no longer
approve of Bush?

I respect true conservative principles, but this administration mob has
no principles. They're a pack of crooks and liars, politically
opportunistic to their core.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw typed:
Tim J. wrote:

You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative, which he
has proven he's not.

Bingo.

The problem is that Rove, Bush's brain, has so far succeeded in
selling the notion that you are by definition a conservative if and
only if you support Bush. Can I assume that you, as a conservative,
no longer approve of Bush?

You can assume whatever you wish. There are many matters on which Mr. Bush
and I disagree. However, given the same two choices again, and having lived
in the state of Mass. with Mr. Kerry for several years, I'd vote the same
way again.

I respect true conservative principles,

Yeah, riiiiiiigggghhhht.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:08:36 -0500, "Tim J."
wrote:

rw typed:
Tim J. wrote:

You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative, which he
has proven he's not.

Bingo.

The problem is that Rove, Bush's brain, has so far succeeded in
selling the notion that you are by definition a conservative if and
only if you support Bush. Can I assume that you, as a conservative,
no longer approve of Bush?

You can assume whatever you wish. There are many matters on which Mr. Bush
and I disagree. However, given the same two choices again, and having lived
in the state of Mass. with Mr. Kerry for several years, I'd vote the same
way again.

I respect true conservative principles,

Yeah, riiiiiiigggghhhht.

Couldn't have said it better, Tim. Scarey Kerry shouldn't be in
public office PERIOD.

And Barnard respects only those people who support HIS idealogy.

"Tim J." wrote



You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative,

Actually, no. I think I'm far more conservative than Bush in many areas,
especially fiscal responsibility. BUT, Bush/Rove do have the adman repeat
the mantra style down and that is what I cited when using the phrase
"Bush-like"

Sidenote:
I often wonder what 'conservative' now means ... I live within my budget,
( my only debt is what remains on my mortgage ). If I want something I
can't afford I look for ways to make the money BEFORE I buy. If I must buy
something I can't afford ( emergency ) I instantly look for ways to increase
my income, maybe go back to work. I am 'liberal.'

Most of the people that I deal with are younger than me, Yuppies or 'old
money,' Republican voters and call themselves 'conservative.' A
tremendously high percentage are in debt up past their ears, measure their
own worth ONLY by what they own ( it's the only thing they ever mention
about themselves, so I'm forced to think it is their only self measure),
think deficit and debt doesn't really matter, show ZERO real interest in
what the world will be like after they are gone and want to use up as much
as they possibly can while here. They are 'conservatives' ..... just what
is you guys 'conserve'?? G


Yeah, once he's told what to believe. ;-)


Possibly true, humans are all subject to human nature. But, at least at
the level of social issues, I'd bet 15 to one on most 'liberals' at least
trying to listen to the views of others over most 'social conservatives'
But, this roffian zoo shows that few on either side listen past hearing
something they think they can argue with ... I point that out because it
really is on the same thread as 'sound bite culture' ... communication, the
act of honestly trying to share and understand other's ideas, even if the
belief in them is not shared, is dying fast over all our culture. I think
this is largely because of TV and it's effect on HOW we think, not what we
think....i.e. sound bite grab em in 10 seconds cause that is all they can
handle, thinking.




Talk about yer oversimplification! Hoo boy.
--

Again my point was about the effect of 'admen' and 'sound bite culture' on
political outcomes .... I don't get the impression that is what you are
responding to G As an experiment, in your own mind, try to formulate
'sound bite' messages for both sides of one issue ... stem sell research
using the little 4 cell 'embryos' produced as part of some infertility
treatments. Note how easy ( regardless of your true belief, that is NOT the
subject, sound bite advertizing is the subject ) it is to conjure up a few
words and 'inspiring' images to support the side that believes those four
cells are 'a human.' Note how difficult it is to present a QUICK argument
for research of unknown outcome, demanding a degree of ethical care, but in
the long term very likely producing great improvements for humans that have
actually grown past 4 cells and have brains and families and friends and are
more than just DNA, are actually humans i.e. self aware social animals.

Again, MY issue here is not the stem cell issue, itself, rather the
suitablity of the various 'sides' for adman tactics in our culture.

Bush is Pres not because of his actual personal quality. Rather an adman
found him and made him the neocon product spokesman. That is my point, and
I believe I'm right ... I will try to listen to opposite opinions, but admit
that I already have thought about this a lot and believe that Bush was
choosen BECAUSE he was a very common person, not too bright, easy to
manipulate, eager to be a 'true believer,' had lots of money, a 'good
family political name' and just the right amount of 'good looks' ..enough to
present well on TV but not so much as to leave Clyde in Tulsa feeling
inferior.

"Larry L" wrote

and just the right amount of 'good looks' ..enough to
present well on TV but not so much as to leave Clyde in Tulsa feeling
inferior.

actually, i have a man crush on him; i think he is gorgeous.

yfitons
wayno(and don't even get me *started* on that sex kitten he's married to!)

Wayne Harrison typed:
"Larry L" wrote

and just the right amount of 'good looks' ..enough to
present well on TV but not so much as to leave Clyde in Tulsa feeling
inferior.

actually, i have a man crush on him; i think he is gorgeous.

Does this post refer to Louie?

yfitons
wayno(and don't even get me *started* on that sex kitten he's married
to!)

Never mind. That answers the question.
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Larry L typed:
"Tim J." wrote

You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative,

Actually, no. I think I'm far more conservative than Bush in many
areas, especially fiscal responsibility. BUT, Bush/Rove do have the
adman repeat the mantra style down and that is what I cited when
using the phrase "Bush-like"

So "Republican culture of corruption" is a Bush-like mantra, right?
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

"Tim J." wrote



So "Republican culture of corruption" is a Bush-like mantra, right?
--


Yes it is,
and, frankly,
I'm upset with several things I see in the DemCamp including trying to use
tactics the Republicans have mastered without having the mastery. BoZo
the Dem party chairman was a huge mistake, imho, as the ONLY thing he knows
is negativity.

I'd love to find a candidate I can vote FOR, and I've said before on ROFF he
does NOT have to be a Democrat. That said, I think the last 5 years have
harmed my country more than any similar period in nearly half a century, and
I blame the people pulling Bush's strings.

I'm not anti-Republican .... but I admit 'you guys" are making it difficult
to stay that way ... I HAAVE voted for Republican, probably will again.

I saw somebody, a Rep that was the minister at Regan's funeral I think they
said, last night talking about the grave dangers we all face as a Nation,
because of Rove/et al seeing the demographic value of being 'faithful' ....
he said lots of things I agreed with, none I'd fight in a 'let's compromise'
environment, many of them 'anti this admin, but pro this country "... all
from a Republican's point of view. Let's face it, Tim, .... I admit that
the Dems have a BoZO chairman ... can you fess up to the fact that MOST
republicans are voting party line far more than what's really right? Come
on, you know it's true, don't ya?

Heah, here's another one from an interview on PBS a few days back ... it was
in my deleted files from one of the many many posts I write but never post.

On potential damages that could result from the inquiry into the NSA
surveillance, to that surveillance and to the nation, I present a Republican
:-)

"SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: All I can tell you is that the ultimate damage that I
want to avoid is a constitutional damage in terms of checks and balances. I
want to fight this enemy. I want to make sure our president and our military
surveils the enemy. I want to know if American citizens are collaborating
with the enemy. We can do that. We must do that.

But the biggest thing that can happen, to me, as a nation is that in the
process of fighting the enemy, we give up the processes that makes us free.

I think there is plenty of room for surveiling the enemy and providing
protections to American citizens who may be caught up in a network of
conversations. So there's a lot of harm that can come. There's two harms:
Letting the enemy know what we're doing. We need to make sure we don't do
any more of that than we have to. The other harm, equally important to me,
is that we destroy a constitutional balance that's worked for 200 years. "

Larry says, "Amen, Bro"

Tim J. wrote:

So "Republican culture of corruption" is a Bush-like mantra, right?

Chaney was hunting illegally. He didn't have the required upland game
bird permit. Are you happy about voting for a poacher?

In the grand scheme of things, considering the mind-boggling, scandalous
illegality this administration is involved in, I guess not having the
required hunting tag doesn't rank very high. But it's indicative of the
sense of privilege and the basic incompetence of this crew. No doubt
Cheney will blame his lack of a tag on some pathetic, low level member
of his staff.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Tim J." wrote



You're, of course, assuming that Bush IS a conservative,

Actually, no. I think I'm far more conservative than Bush in many
areas, especially fiscal responsibility. BUT, Bush/Rove do have the
adman repeat the mantra style down and that is what I cited when using the
phrase "Bush-like"

Sidenote:
I often wonder what 'conservative' now means ... I live within my budget,
( my only debt is what remains on my mortgage ). If I want something I
can't afford I look for ways to make the money BEFORE I buy. If I must
buy something I can't afford ( emergency ) I instantly look for ways to
increase my income, maybe go back to work. I am 'liberal.'

Most of the people that I deal with are younger than me, Yuppies or 'old
money,' Republican voters and call themselves 'conservative.' A
tremendously high percentage are in debt up past their ears, measure their
own worth ONLY by what they own ( it's the only thing they ever mention
about themselves, so I'm forced to think it is their only self measure),
think deficit and debt doesn't really matter, show ZERO real interest in
what the world will be like after they are gone and want to use up as much
as they possibly can while here. They are 'conservatives' ..... just
what is you guys 'conserve'?? G


Yeah, once he's told what to believe. ;-)


Possibly true, humans are all subject to human nature. But, at least at
the level of social issues, I'd bet 15 to one on most 'liberals' at least
trying to listen to the views of others over most 'social conservatives'
But, this roffian zoo shows that few on either side listen past hearing
something they think they can argue with ... I point that out because it
really is on the same thread as 'sound bite culture' ... communication,
the act of honestly trying to share and understand other's ideas, even if
the belief in them is not shared, is dying fast over all our culture. I
think this is largely because of TV and it's effect on HOW we think, not
what we think....i.e. sound bite grab em in 10 seconds cause that is all
they can handle, thinking.




Talk about yer oversimplification! Hoo boy.
--

Again my point was about the effect of 'admen' and 'sound bite culture' on
political outcomes .... I don't get the impression that is what you are
responding to G As an experiment, in your own mind, try to formulate
'sound bite' messages for both sides of one issue ... stem sell research
using the little 4 cell 'embryos' produced as part of some infertility
treatments. Note how easy ( regardless of your true belief, that is NOT
the subject, sound bite advertizing is the subject ) it is to conjure up a
few words and 'inspiring' images to support the side that believes those
four cells are 'a human.' Note how difficult it is to present a QUICK
argument for research of unknown outcome, demanding a degree of ethical
care, but in the long term very likely producing great improvements for
humans that have actually grown past 4 cells and have brains and families
and friends and are more than just DNA, are actually humans i.e. self
aware social animals.

Again, MY issue here is not the stem cell issue, itself, rather the
suitablity of the various 'sides' for adman tactics in our culture.

Bush is Pres not because of his actual personal quality. Rather an adman
found him and made him the neocon product spokesman. That is my point,
and I believe I'm right ... I will try to listen to opposite opinions, but
admit that I already have thought about this a lot and believe that Bush
was choosen BECAUSE he was a very common person, not too bright, easy to
manipulate, eager to be a 'true believer,' had lots of money, a 'good
family political name' and just the right amount of 'good looks' ..enough
to present well on TV but not so much as to leave Clyde in Tulsa feeling
inferior.

And all this from the man who wonders about others' balls, wants to sue and
arrest the neighbors, club, shoot, or otherwise destroy their dogs, insults
them to their faces.....or when their backs are turned.....etc., etc. Yeah,
we'll pay close attention to this little sermon.

Wolfgang