Cheney victim has heart attack

In article , says...

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
oups.com...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/125421.shtml

"...We're told Cheney is a good shot to boot."

Not so good, evidently, that he doesn't leave an occasional cripple in the
field.


Hey, he recovered it...I have no doubt he could have put him out of
his misery, had the situation called for it...

Kevin

"Kevin Vang" wrote in message
t...
In article , says...

"BJ Conner" wrote in message
oups.com...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/125421.shtml

"...We're told Cheney is a good shot to boot."

Not so good, evidently, that he doesn't leave an occasional cripple in
the
field.


Hey, he recovered it...

Well, somebody did.

I have no doubt he could have put him out of
his misery, had the situation called for it...

Witnesses. As it is, they may yet prove troublesome. We'll see.

Wolfgang
who won't be holding his breath.

Wolfgang wrote:

Witnesses. As it is, they may yet prove troublesome. We'll see.

I know you guys are outdoorsman but have *any* of you ever hunted
quail?

First off, my take is that they waited 24 hours to announce just to
make sure that all the alcohol was out of the VP's blood. Just in
case....

Of course, the whole thing is bogus.. Did you read where the vic "left
the line to look for a bird he downed" and then failed to report in
when he came back? That is total bull**** for two reasons. First, you
don't leave the line to look for a bird, the dogs retrieve any downed
birds. A human can't see/find downed birds in cover unless these
millionaires like to crawl around for hours looking for a bird.
Second, these guys are old millionaires. They don't walk in any
freakin' line the way my friends and I did way back when. These dudes
ride. When a dog points, they get out and walk up 20-25 yards for the
flush. I can just see the VP and his 78 year old friend walking 20
miles in a gdamn line. LOL Never fing happen. And what do they
ride? Well, if they're fancy, they ride in a big mule drawn wagon,
which carries dogs, hunters, refreshments (!) etc. (A friend of mine
calls it "horses asses pulled by asses.") Which one would presume
Cheney would prefer, being a conservative. Or Jeeps, which carry the
same things, just not as "traditional".

And if shot penetrated a hunting coat, the guy was close to the VP.
Forty yards away he would have got some in the face but never in the
chest unless they hunt naked in Texas in February. If the VP was
sober, he had to see the guy. I hunted for over 40 years and I never
even came close to shooting another hunter or being shot by one. With
more than one hunter, the rule is that you shoot ahead of the line.
Not down the line, not behind the line. If Cheney shot down the line,
he was either drunk or he's a fool.

Harry
of course, i never hunted with cheney or scalia so my record is intact

wrote in message
oups.com...

Wolfgang wrote:

Witnesses. As it is, they may yet prove troublesome. We'll see.

I know you guys are outdoorsman but have *any* of you ever hunted
quail?

Um......well.....not me.

First off, my take is that they waited 24 hours to announce just to
make sure that all the alcohol was out of the VP's blood. Just in
case....

Of course, the whole thing is bogus.. Did you read where the vic "left
the line to look for a bird he downed" and then failed to report in
when he came back? That is total bull**** for two reasons. First, you
don't leave the line to look for a bird, the dogs retrieve any downed
birds. A human can't see/find downed birds in cover unless these
millionaires like to crawl around for hours looking for a bird.
Second, these guys are old millionaires. They don't walk in any
freakin' line the way my friends and I did way back when. These dudes
ride. When a dog points, they get out and walk up 20-25 yards for the
flush. I can just see the VP and his 78 year old friend walking 20
miles in a gdamn line. LOL Never fing happen. And what do they
ride? Well, if they're fancy, they ride in a big mule drawn wagon,
which carries dogs, hunters, refreshments (!) etc. (A friend of mine
calls it "horses asses pulled by asses.") Which one would presume
Cheney would prefer, being a conservative. Or Jeeps, which carry the
same things, just not as "traditional".

And if shot penetrated a hunting coat, the guy was close to the VP.
Forty yards away he would have got some in the face but never in the
chest unless they hunt naked in Texas in February. If the VP was
sober, he had to see the guy. I hunted for over 40 years and I never
even came close to shooting another hunter or being shot by one. With
more than one hunter, the rule is that you shoot ahead of the line.
Not down the line, not behind the line. If Cheney shot down the line,
he was either drunk or he's a fool.

Harry
of course, i never hunted with cheney or scalia so my record is intact

O.k.........well.......I guess that blows MY painstakingly constructed
defense of Cheney right out of the water.

Next?

Wolfgang

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:49:26 -0600, "Wolfgang" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...

Wolfgang wrote:

Witnesses. As it is, they may yet prove troublesome. We'll see.

I know you guys are outdoorsman but have *any* of you ever hunted
quail?

Um......well.....not me.


Harry
of course, i never hunted with cheney or scalia so my record is intact

O.k.........well.......I guess that blows MY painstakingly constructed
defense of Cheney right out of the water.

Aw, heck, one could blow your regularly scheduled painstakingly
constructed defenses or offensives out of the water with a leaky squirt
gun...

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:49:26 -0600, "Wolfgang" wrote:


wrote in message
groups.com...

Wolfgang wrote:

Witnesses. As it is, they may yet prove troublesome. We'll see.

I know you guys are outdoorsman but have *any* of you ever hunted
quail?

Um......well.....not me.


Harry
of course, i never hunted with cheney or scalia so my record is intact

O.k.........well.......I guess that blows MY painstakingly constructed
defense of Cheney right out of the water.

Aw, heck, one could blow your regularly scheduled painstakingly
constructed defenses or offensives out of the water with a leaky squirt
gun...

Then you might want to try it sometime.

Meanwhile, yours are pretty much airtight, I'd say. For example......

You contend that the current administration in the White House is incapable
of plumbing the depths of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's
impenetrable game laws. I agree. Rejecting the evidence of the last few
days and (especially) your closely reasoned support of it is completely out
of the question. You also maintain that this does not redound to the
discredit of that administration. Again, I agree. Expecting more of people
than they are qualified to deliver is not only counterproductive, it is also
downright unreasonable. The only point on which we seem to disagree thus
far is whether or not we should be really happy about this state of affairs.
I don't think so.......but I eagerly await your typically astute exegesis
before making up my mind for sure.

Wolfgang

What about the mention of "size BB shot"? That is a goose load, not a
quail load!

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
...
What about the mention of "size BB shot"? That is a goose load, not a
quail load!

Probably reported by a biased idiot. The hospital reported #8 shot. That
is what you use on small upland birds.

Calif Bill wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
...

What about the mention of "size BB shot"? That is a goose load, not a
quail load!


Probably reported by a biased idiot. The hospital reported #8 shot. That
is what you use on small upland birds.

This story about the shot "migrating" to the heart is just another
bull**** lie.

For venous blood to get to the coronary arteries it has to go through
the heart to the lungs and back through the heart, then out the aorta
and into the coronary arteries. Even in this implausible scenario, the
pellet would have gotten stuck in his lungs.

Cheney shot Wittington in the chest, with enough force and at a close
enough range that a pellet penetrated to the heart.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On 15 Feb 2006 03:41:16 -0800, "
wrote:


Wolfgang wrote:

Witnesses. As it is, they may yet prove troublesome. We'll see.

I know you guys are outdoorsman but have *any* of you ever hunted
quail?

Yes, and as a matter of fact, I spoke on ROFF about having done so
recently (and prior to this incident). And Harry, you are just plain
wrong in many of your assumptions.

First off, my take is that they waited 24 hours to announce just to
make sure that all the alcohol was out of the VP's blood. Just in
case....

Not exactly. The incident occurred about 5-6pm CST and the local LEOs
knew about an hour later. Whittington was taken, apparently wide awake
and lucid, to the hospital, so the staff there knew. I'd offer that
Whittington, a lawyer and GOP high-stepper, did something HIPA-related
that prevented anyone there from talking to the press. For example, if
he said "no info," the hospital couldn't even (legally) confirm him as a
patient. Neither you or I have any solid info regarding Cheney
drinking, and there's been no real indication that he had been. Could
he have been drinking, impaired, or totally falling-down ****-faced?
Sure. But until I see some objective info indicating as much, I'll
stick to "I doubt it."

Of course, the whole thing is bogus.. Did you read where the vic "left
the line to look for a bird he downed" and then failed to report in
when he came back?

No, I didn't see that, but I'll take your word that you did, however....

That is total bull**** for two reasons.

Well, mainly just one reason - there were only 3 people hunting, and
they had gotten out of vehicle. Everything I've seen, from even biased
sources, made no indication of "a line," but rather, things along the,
um, lines of a/the "hunting party."

First, you
don't leave the line to look for a bird, the dogs retrieve any downed
birds. A human can't see/find downed birds in cover unless these
millionaires like to crawl around for hours looking for a bird.

Wrong. Depending on the ground conditions, you can easily hunt and find
birds without dogs. And as an aside, I've hunted with "millionaires"
who have spent quite a time looking for a downed bird because it's the
right thing to do ("you shot it, you find it").

Second, these guys are old millionaires. They don't walk in any
freakin' line the way my friends and I did way back when. These dudes
ride. When a dog points, they get out and walk up 20-25 yards for the
flush. I can just see the VP and his 78 year old friend walking 20
miles in a gdamn line. LOL Never fing happen. And what do they
ride? Well, if they're fancy, they ride in a big mule drawn wagon,
which carries dogs, hunters, refreshments (!) etc. (A friend of mine
calls it "horses asses pulled by asses.") Which one would presume
Cheney would prefer, being a conservative. Or Jeeps, which carry the
same things, just not as "traditional".

Um, the vehicle usage (completely legal) was reported and acknowledged.
Again, I've heard no claims of any substantial walking being done.

And if shot penetrated a hunting coat, the guy was close to the VP.
Forty yards away he would have got some in the face but never in the
chest unless they hunt naked in Texas in February.

Naked? Probably (and if there were cameras, hopefully) not...well, them
hippie types outta Austin, gawd knows, but in this case, no. But as I
mentioned in my aforementioned post about pheasant and quail hunting
over Christmas, we hunted in shorts and golf shirts _in the TX and OK
Panhandles_. And I don't know the exact temperature at the time of the
incident, it has been in the high 80s to mid 90s in that area in the
last week or so.

If the VP was
sober, he had to see the guy. I hunted for over 40 years and I never
even came close to shooting another hunter or being shot by one.

As to you having hunted without accidentally shooting someone or having
been shot, thankfully, most (myself included) can say the same thing.
But as to "never even came close," you just don't (and can't) know that.

With more than one hunter, the rule is that you shoot ahead of the line.
Not down the line, not behind the line. If Cheney shot down the line,
he was either drunk or he's a fool.

OK, here we do agree, at least in general principle. But again, as
there was no line, it really isn't relevant to this specific incident.

What I can easily see as having been the case, given the time of day,
the number in the party, the lack of dogs, etc., is that somebody said,
"Let's go scare up a covey or two - get a few birds for appetizers to
tonight's dinner," or something similar. Anyone familiar with the ranch
would know a general area where a covey or two might be hanging out, and
so, they got into a ranch truck or a quail truck, and went to try to bag
a few birds. They got out in the general area, and rest has been widely
reported. I have, without shooting anyone, participated in exactly the
same type of scenario on many occasions, and I've spoken in the past of
having done so here on ROFF, and in fact, directly to ROFFians
participating in this very thread.

And for the record, I'm not trying to start a, um, "debate," merely
pointing out what I believe and/or know to be errors in your analysis,
and doing so with quite a bit of personal experience in very similar or
identical circumstances.

TC,
R