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"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
om...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
...
Oh, and how do you feel about offensive racial slurs ?
That just hunky-dory with you, little fellow ?

Racial slurs? the ususal double drivel snipped

Yes, an offensive racial slur. Answer the question, little
Wolfie, are offensive racial slurs just hunky-dory with you ?

Show me one......let's see what happens.

Go ahead, make your case.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
...
Oh, and how do you feel about offensive racial slurs ?
That just hunky-dory with you, little fellow ?
Racial slurs? the ususal double drivel snipped
Yes, an offensive racial slur. Answer the question, little
Wolfie, are offensive racial slurs just hunky-dory with you ?

Show me one......let's see what happens.

OK. How about this one from that ignorant old fool Joe McIntosh.

[ that one reminds me of the time I went to bed with an Indian Princess
and awoke the next morning with a fat squaw}

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
...
Oh, and how do you feel about offensive racial slurs ?
That just hunky-dory with you, little fellow ?
Racial slurs? the ususal double drivel snipped
Yes, an offensive racial slur. Answer the question, little
Wolfie, are offensive racial slurs just hunky-dory with you ?

Show me one......let's see what happens.

OK. How about this one from that ignorant old fool Joe McIntosh.

[ that one reminds me of the time I went to bed with an Indian Princess
and awoke the next morning with a fat squaw}

Hm......

Well, I believe that Joe has some Cherokee ancestors.....an impression whose
origins I don't remember but believe to be reinforced by statements he's
made in the past, and certainly bolstered by the fact that a number of
Cherokee McIntoshes played prominent roles in that whole Trail of Tears
business.....you know, good old Andy Jackson and all that. Numerous
descendents of pre-Columbian residents of North America still prefer
"Indian" to "native American." Therefore, while "Indian certainly CAN be
used pejoratively.....as a racial slur, that is.....I hardly think it was so
used in this instance. For one thing, as John pointed out, members of
various groups have arrogated unto themselves a certain license to use among
themselves terms that they deem offensive coming from outsiders. There is
nothing new or unusual about this. It's been going on throughout history,
and the phenomenon is by no means limited to ethnic or racial groups.
"Indian" is on the margins.....some find it offensive, some don't. Your
going to have a really hard time selling the notion that Joe used it as a
slur.

"Princess" is racially neutral except in the also marginal case of "Jewish
American Princess," frequently abbreviated as JAP which, interestingly, is
also an abbreviated term for Japanese people and their descendents and most
definitely IS deemed an offensive racial slur by most people sensitive to
these issues, at least in the latter sense. In the former, all of the above
observations apply but very few people find the term particularly offensive
and it has never enjoyed widespread popularity anyway. Even as a derogatory
term for the Japanese it's use has rapidly faded in the last couple of
decades. At any rate, Joe clearly referred to an "Indian" princess, so none
of that really matters for our purposes here. "Princess" is also sometime
used by homophobes but that isn't the issue here either.

"Bed".....well, that's just something people sleep on. I've never
encountered any evidence that anyone associates race (for good or ill) with
a bed.

"Fat" is frequently used deliberately to insult and often enough in
conjunction with other derogatory terms that might or might not be racial
but, again, there is no evidence that the word carries any racial baggage of
its own.

That leaves us with "Squaw." Like "Jap," "squaw" is rapidly fading from the
language. One encounters it today mostly in examples of dialect or in
historical references. Millions of Americans today don't even know the
word. We've got two whole generations here who were not raised on cowboy
movies, cowboy T.V. shows and cowboy books....who did not carry a cowboy
lunchbox to school (come to think of it, millions of them probably don't
know what a lunch box is), and who did not grow up wanting to be a cowboy.
Moreover, through most of its history, "squaw" has been a perfectly
respectable word meaning the wife of any Indian and/or the Indian wife of
anybody else. For example, no less a stalwart of feminine Victorian
propriety that Isabella Bird used the word frequently in her 1856
travelogue, "An Englishwoman in America," without so much as a hint of
derogation.....even with very little of the condescension that came so
easily to 19th century imperial Britons, and especially so compared with
what she had to say about her "white" fellow travelers and hosts.

The bottom line is that "squaw" is on the fast track to oblivion. As a
racial slur it leaves much to be desired, not the least of which is
recognition. Give it another 20 years and, if it is used at all, it will
engender about as much shock and opprobrium (and, again, recognition) as
does "gypped" as a synonym for cheated, bilked, etc. (bonus points will be
awarded to anyone who gets the connection .

In the meantime, it would be MUCH easier to make a convincing case for the
proposition that "squaw" is a MISOGYNISTIC slur, something you would know a
lot more about than Joe is likely to, and which brings us (at last) to where
we should have been a long time ago.....and to where we all knew this was
going.....eventually.......right?

In fact, you and I know (as do many others here) that you really don't give
a **** about racial slurs in general or about Joe's use of the word squaw in
particular. In fact, we all know that the motivation for this little
charade is exactly the same uncontrollable urge that caused you to start
that nasty thread about Snakefiddler the other day and has compelled you to
say so many vile things to her when she was here for no reason at
all......let alone anything like a good one. The same little demonic voice
that tells you that any human being is expendable in the never ending search
for recognition and approval.......ANYBODY'S approval, however repulsive
even you find him.....not.....NEVER.....her.

So, here you are once again, as you knew you would be, slowly turning on a
spit of your own making.....knowing that there is no way forward and none
back. Sidestepping is out of the question. What to do......eh? Nothing
left but to go sit in the corner and play with your compact dic.

Wolfgang
given the frightful faces he makes whenever he eventually realizes what he's
stepped in, you'd think the boy would learn to watch where he puts his
feet......and you'd be wrong.

Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
Show me one......let's see what happens.
OK. How about this one from that ignorant old fool Joe McIntosh.

[ that one reminds me of the time I went to bed with an Indian Princess
and awoke the next morning with a fat squaw}

Hm......

snip *way* more than usual of the typical double drivel

The bottom line is that "squaw" is on the fast track to oblivion. As a
racial slur it leaves much to be desired, not the least of which is
recognition.

Nope, it's a racial slur without a doubt. That's not even
a debatable point. Well, I won't debate it with you at any
rate, as far as I'm concerned it's a racial slur and that's
that. However if you still feel compelled to argue the point
I suggest you visit one of the many Wisconsin reservations,
take up a seat in the casino bar and argue away. Take that
old fool McIntosh with you and don't forget the trip report.
And pictures, LOL !!!!, take lots of pictures.

--
Ken Fortenberry

In article ,
says...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
Show me one......let's see what happens.
OK. How about this one from that ignorant old fool Joe McIntosh.

[ that one reminds me of the time I went to bed with an Indian Princess
and awoke the next morning with a fat squaw}

Hm......

snip *way* more than usual of the typical double drivel

The bottom line is that "squaw" is on the fast track to oblivion. As a
racial slur it leaves much to be desired, not the least of which is
recognition.

Nope, it's a racial slur without a doubt. That's not even
a debatable point. Well, I won't debate it with you at any
rate, as far as I'm concerned it's a racial slur and that's
that.

Well my squaw doesn't object and that counts for more than some
hypersensitive liberal white-boy from cornfield land.

With all due respect. ;-)
- Ken

wrote:
says...
Wolfgang wrote:
The bottom line is that "squaw" is on the fast track to oblivion. As a
racial slur it leaves much to be desired, not the least of which is
recognition.
Nope, it's a racial slur without a doubt. That's not even
a debatable point. Well, I won't debate it with you at any
rate, as far as I'm concerned it's a racial slur and that's
that.

Well my squaw doesn't object and that counts for more than some
hypersensitive liberal white-boy from cornfield land.

Your **** is in the minority.

With all due respect. ;-)

Likewise, I'm sure. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

In article ,
says...
wrote:
says...
Wolfgang wrote:
The bottom line is that "squaw" is on the fast track to oblivion. As a
racial slur it leaves much to be desired, not the least of which is
recognition.
Nope, it's a racial slur without a doubt. That's not even
a debatable point. Well, I won't debate it with you at any
rate, as far as I'm concerned it's a racial slur and that's
that.

Well my squaw doesn't object and that counts for more than some
hypersensitive liberal white-boy from cornfield land.

Your **** is in the minority.

Not in my poll of squaws....betcha I know a whole lot more than
you do.
- Ken

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Wolfgang wrote:
Show me one......let's see what happens.
OK. How about this one from that ignorant old fool Joe McIntosh.

[ that one reminds me of the time I went to bed with an Indian Princess
and awoke the next morning with a fat squaw}

Hm......

snip *way* more than usual of the typical double drivel
The bottom line is that "squaw" is on the fast track to oblivion. As a
racial slur it leaves much to be desired, not the least of which is
recognition.

Nope, it's a racial slur without a doubt. That's not even
a debatable point. Well, I won't debate it with you at any
rate, as far as I'm concerned it's a racial slur and that's
that. However if you still feel compelled to argue the point
I suggest you visit one of the many Wisconsin reservations,
take up a seat in the casino bar and argue away. Take that
old fool McIntosh with you and don't forget the trip report.
And pictures, LOL !!!!, take lots of pictures.

I've been to some of the Wisconsin reservations. Been to a lot of
bars......never in a casino, though. Been to a few private homes, too.
Used to share office space at UWSP with the Native American Center. Just
checked their website. I see Sharon Cloud is still there. Mary Tsosie is
gone. So is Larry Waukau. They were an interesting bunch of folks. We
used to talk. Never found much to argue about. They'd have gotten a real
kick out of you.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
... They were an interesting bunch of folks. We
used to talk. Never found much to argue about. ...

I don't doubt that for a moment, I've always found you
to be quite civil in person, it's your Usenet persona
that's sociopathic.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Wolfgang wrote:
Give it another 20 years and, if it is used at all, it will
engender about as much shock and opprobrium (and, again, recognition) as
does "gypped" as a synonym for cheated, bilked, etc. (bonus points will be
awarded to anyone who gets the connection .


oooh...oooh... "gypsies"... i get to fish the left side of the stream
in september.