Country music

Wolfgang schreef:
"Herman Nijland" wrote in message
. ..

To answer both your and rw's question in one post - yes, it is archaic,
I've never heard of it being used in modern language. Being Dutch, I hope
that means something :-). May be it means the Dave is very very much older
than me g.
I had a quick google, and it does turn out that Dave was more or less
right - it is a very old word for stream. However - I can't imagine a
modern Dutch publication using the word 'kill' or 'kil' for stream,
because it wouldn't be understood in its right meaning. For modern read
anything younger than, say, at least fifty years.

No surprises there. Thanks, Herman. One more question though, or rather a
repetition to be more precise (and with a short preface), if you don't mind.
It's well known among people who study languages that names in general, and
place names in particular, are a valuable repository of archaic forms. Even
if "kil" (however spelled) is no longer in common use as a synonym for
"stream" (as is clearly the case here), one expect to see signs of its
former use dotted about the landscape (as it is here in areas settled by the
Dutch). Anything come to mind?

Wolfgang

Not so much as you would expect from a water-rich environment
I know of a place called 'Sluiskil', which is water-related, but that's about
the only one that pops up. Dave gave a better example with the Battenkill (which
is even on-topic :-)).

Herman

"herman Nijland" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang schreef:

Even if "kil" (however spelled) is no longer in common use as a synonym
for "stream" (as is clearly the case here), one expect to see signs of
its former use dotted about the landscape (as it is here in areas settled
by the Dutch). Anything come to mind?

Wolfgang

Not so much as you would expect from a water-rich environment
I know of a place called 'Sluiskil', which is water-related, but that's
about the only one that pops up.


Thanks again, Herman. I just did a brief search online and found one other
example, the "Dordtsche Kil." According to Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dordtsche_Kil it is, "A short river in South
Holland in the Netherlands. The river is tidal and forms a connection
between the Oude Maas river and the Hollands Diep." The Dutch version of
the page, http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dordtsche_Kil appears to have more
information on it. Unfortunately, I don't read Dutch. The last two
sentences, "Ook het aan de Dordtsche Kil gelegen bedrijventerrein wordt
Dordtsche Kil ("de Kil") genoemd. Dit is onderverdeeld in Kil I en Kil II."
look particularly intriguing. Looking at a couple of Dutch online
dictionaries revealed only that "kil" means chilly. Easy enough to imagine
an etymological connection to cold water streams, but not really much help.
I have not yet found a Middle Dutch-English dictionary.

What makes all of this interesting to me is not so much the PETA connection
as the fact (assuming the "kill" in "Fishkill" means stream, creek, or
something on that order) that it has exact cognates long familiar to me in
both English, "Fish Creek," and German, "Fischbach." There is a town here
in Wisconsin and there is at least one stream in Michigan with the former
name, and the latter was the name of my aunt's first husband (he was killed
in the war at least 6 years before I was born, so I'm not sure I can really
call him my uncle). Presumably, the family name reflects a genealogical
connection to a place name. The careful reader also will note a connection
with a certain famous musical composer. Sure enough, J.S. Bach was aware of
the geographical significance of his name. I recall hearing an anecdote,
many years ago, in which he quipped, in reference to a student of his, named
Fisch, that he was "...den [dem?, der?] besten Fisch in meinem Bach."

I assume there are similar constructs in many other languages. Anybody out
there know of any?

Dave gave a better example with the Battenkill (which is even on-topic
:-)).

"Batten" looks to me like it might be the equivalent of the German "baden"
and English "bathing." I'd guess there were some popular swimming holes
there a couple hundred years ago.

Even more interesting is the Beaverkill. Presumably, this is where early
Dutch-American truckers went to ogle naked female bathers.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:

Even more interesting is the Beaverkill. Presumably, this is where early
Dutch-American truckers went to ogle naked female bathers.

Wolfgang



....and schuylkill in PA??

"Jeff" wrote in message
news


Wolfgang wrote:

Even more interesting is the Beaverkill. Presumably, this is where early
Dutch-American truckers went to ogle naked female bathers.

...and schuylkill in PA??

Hm......

Yeah, that one's a bit of a poser. The folks at:

http://www.delawareriverkeeper.org/piedmont.html

say, "As the first westerners came to the area they sailed right past the
mouth of the Schuylkill which drains into the estuary region of the main
stem Delaware. Arendt Corssen, who explored the Schuylkill for the Dutch
East Indies Company, named the river 'Schuyl Kil' meaning hidden river, for
the reeds, sedges and grasses that hid the mouth of the Schuylkill.".....but
that's dull.

Unfortunately, the American Society for Kephalonomantic Macrologic Etymology
has suspended my license pending investigation of the "Beaverkill" incident.
Someone else is going to have to take it from here.

Wolfgang

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:24:02 +0200, herman Nijland
wrote:

I know of a place called 'Sluiskil', which is water-related, but that's about
the only one that pops up. Dave gave a better example with the Battenkill (which
is even on-topic :-)).

And then there's
Beaver Kill
Bush Kill (ewwwww)
Catskill
Lansing Kill
Plattekill
Saw Kill
Shawangunk Kill (say that three times really fast)

Methinks the early Dutch were very busy naming streams back in the
18th and 19th centuries. d;o)

Dave