Beautiful flies vs. Not So Beautiful

I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well tied,
but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly, which I
thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the patterns I wanted. I
recently saw some very nice tied patterns at $2.80 per fly, but they were
near perfect and very aesthetically pleasing. I've never fished with
beautiful flies before, but was wondering if they do make a difference in
appearance to trout?
-tom

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well tied,
but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly, which I
thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the patterns I wanted. I
recently saw some very nice tied patterns at $2.80 per fly, but they were
near perfect and very aesthetically pleasing. I've never fished with
beautiful flies before, but was wondering if they do make a difference in
appearance to trout?
-tom


Less important than its looks are how it performs in the water. What I
mean is, do the dry flies float? Are their wings upright in the correct
position? Do the streamers sink properly, right side up, and retain
that attitude when stripped in, rather than spinning? Do the nymphs
sink right side up? Do they sink at the proper rate? Are the hooks
strong and sharp? Can the fly take many strikes before falling apart?
You can have a ratty looking fly that catches them fine.

Peter Collin

Peter A. Collin wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote:

I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well
tied, but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly,
which I thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the
patterns I wanted. I recently saw some very nice tied patterns at
$2.80 per fly, but they were near perfect and very aesthetically
pleasing. I've never fished with beautiful flies before, but was
wondering if they do make a difference in appearance to trout?
-tom

Less important than its looks are how it performs in the water. What I
mean is, do the dry flies float? Are their wings upright in the correct
position? Do the streamers sink properly, right side up, and retain
that attitude when stripped in, rather than spinning? Do the nymphs
sink right side up? Do they sink at the proper rate? Are the hooks
strong and sharp? Can the fly take many strikes before falling apart?
You can have a ratty looking fly that catches them fine.

Peter Collin

Exactly. I've bought my share of cheap flies, and with few exceptions,
they were not worth the money I supposedly saved. Hoppers didn't float.
Traditional dries didn't float, or ride on their sides. Some nymphs
would just fall apart. I now have a small handful of places I order
flies from. Price varies, but I can get a good quality fly for around a
buck. Anything in the 50 cent range, I don't bother with anymore.

On the appearance subject, I would say it makes a difference. I mean why
would all these fly fisher people spend countless hours, and money,
trying to match the bugs trout eat. ;-) Example, I like narrow, tightly
dubbed(or biot)bodies on my mayfly patterns(dries). I think it gives a
better, more realistic silhouette. Compare a cheap fly, to a fly shop
quality fly, and you'll see a noticeable difference. It might not matter
to some fish, but if you run into selective fish, i'd rather have a good
imitation.

JMHO
brians

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well
tied, but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly,
which I thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the patterns I
wanted. I recently saw some very nice tied patterns at $2.80 per fly,
but they were near perfect and very aesthetically pleasing. I've never
fished with beautiful flies before, but was wondering if they do make a
difference in appearance to trout?
-tom
Less important than its looks are how it performs in the water. What I
mean is, do the dry flies float? Are their wings upright in the correct
position? Do the streamers sink properly, right side up, and retain that
attitude when stripped in, rather than spinning? Do the nymphs sink right
side up? Do they sink at the proper rate? Are the hooks strong and
sharp? Can the fly take many strikes before falling apart? You can have a
ratty looking fly that catches them fine.

Peter Collin

Peter, you seem to be very knowledge about fly-ties. You made me think
about things I haven't heard before or read in a book. Never knew about
nymphs sinking right side up, thought it didn't matter. If you can think of
other valuable information about flies, I'm always willing to listen and
learn.
thanks,
-tom

"Tom Nakashima" wrote in message
...

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well
tied, but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly,
which I thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the patterns
I wanted. I recently saw some very nice tied patterns at $2.80 per fly,
but they were near perfect and very aesthetically pleasing. I've never
fished with beautiful flies before, but was wondering if they do make a
difference in appearance to trout?
-tom
Less important than its looks are how it performs in the water. What I
mean is, do the dry flies float? Are their wings upright in the correct
position? Do the streamers sink properly, right side up, and retain that
attitude when stripped in, rather than spinning? Do the nymphs sink
right side up? Do they sink at the proper rate? Are the hooks strong
and sharp? Can the fly take many strikes before falling apart? You can
have a ratty looking fly that catches them fine.

Peter Collin

Peter, you seem to be very knowledge about fly-ties. You made me think
about things I haven't heard before or read in a book. Never knew about
nymphs sinking right side up, thought it didn't matter. If you can think
of other valuable information about flies, I'm always willing to listen
and learn.
thanks,
-tom


I sell cheap flies online.
Although my fishing experience is limited. I know it took me a L-O-T of work
to find a cheap overseas supplier who wasn't supplying me in crap.
I would say 95% of the time the cheap flies are crap. I got in samples from
a number of different tying houses and was about to give up when I bought my
website.
I was just going to start ordering from Rumpf and selling their flies...
even if the competition in the high price range was tough.

In a last ditch effort to find a decent tier and a number of angry Africans
steaming at the idea that they sent me samples and i refused to order. I
blindly sent a bunch of money into Kenya to a tying house that made some big
promises. I hit the jackpot!

The other flies that I got would unravel after snapping them off the ground
a couple of times. and like mentioned before bodies were a bit loose and
many would twist up my line on the casts. The wulffs i got weren't thickly
packed and the deer spinning on many muddlers weren't tightly packed.

My story with finding cheap flies and getting quality is a rarity. Before
doing this I would either tie myself (which weren't always the most
professional while I was learning a new pattern) or buy them from a guy who
owned a fly shop nearby and I'd pay like $2.00 to $5.00 per fly.

From reading around, I am pretty sure both of you guys (Peter and Tom) are
more experienced fly fishermen than i am, but I think it can be hit or miss
with cheap flies.
On the opposite hand though, I bought some size 14 blue Duns (2 flies for
$3.50) from Dick's that were REALLY lousy. So even the expensive ones don't
always work out.

I am currently working on a way to pop out a bunch of free samples to folks
on my customers list. If you guys want, just email me and I'll add you in to
try to get you a couple of freebees to see why I like this tier I have now.

The only draw back to my site is that I only order once per month instead of
sitting on 20,000 dozen flies to send out orders immediately. Not everyone
can wait a month or so to get their flies.

I still hop down to the flyshop down the street to see what the local tiers
are doing and grab a few flies I don't want to wait for or tie myself.
Once you find a good quality supplier anywhere... it's like gold no matter
what the price.


--
flies from $5.60 per DOZEN!
Rods/Reels and Gear
www.fly-fishing-flies.com

Tom Nakashima wrote:
I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well tied,
but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly, which I
thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the patterns I wanted. I
recently saw some very nice tied patterns at $2.80 per fly, but they were
near perfect and very aesthetically pleasing. I've never fished with
beautiful flies before, but was wondering if they do make a difference in
appearance to trout?

I'm not quite sure how a fly could be both aesthetically
lacking and well tied at the same time. But having said
that I've tied some awful looking things that caught fish.
A lot depends on how picky the fish are at the time you're
fishing for them. Sometimes they'll take just about anything,
other times they want exactly the right size and color.

In a commercial tie one way to judge quality is by how long
the fly lasts. If one fish trashes it so bad it becomes unusable
it doesn't take long for the 55 cent flies to become more
expensive than the buck/buck fifty flies I usually buy. If I
spend $2.80 for a fly I'll put it under glass and frame it. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. net...
Tom Nakashima wrote:
I just received my order of flies for the McCloud River that are well
tied, but not the greatest in aesthetics. I've paid 55 cents per fly,
which I thought was a pretty good price, and they do match the patterns I
wanted. I recently saw some very nice tied patterns at $2.80 per fly,
but they were near perfect and very aesthetically pleasing. I've never
fished with beautiful flies before, but was wondering if they do make a
difference in appearance to trout?

I'm not quite sure how a fly could be both aesthetically
lacking and well tied at the same time. But having said
that I've tied some awful looking things that caught fish.
A lot depends on how picky the fish are at the time you're
fishing for them. Sometimes they'll take just about anything,
other times they want exactly the right size and color.

In a commercial tie one way to judge quality is by how long
the fly lasts. If one fish trashes it so bad it becomes unusable
it doesn't take long for the 55 cent flies to become more
expensive than the buck/buck fifty flies I usually buy. If I
spend $2.80 for a fly I'll put it under glass and frame it. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken, I think Peter gave me a lot to think about when he wrote:

Less important than its looks are how it performs in the water. What I
mean is, do the dry flies float? Are their wings upright in the correct
position? Do the streamers sink properly, right side up, and retain
that attitude when stripped in, rather than spinning? Do the nymphs
sink right side up? Do they sink at the proper rate? Are the hooks
strong and sharp? Can the fly take many strikes before falling apart?
You can have a ratty looking fly that catches them fine.
Peter Collin

Ken to answer your question about how your quite not sure how a fly could be
aesthetically lacking and well tied at the same time. The flies I purchased
are well tied in that they won't come apart when I cast, but as I said they
look good enough to match the pattern, but they're not aesthetically
pleasing as in the $2.80 flies that I've seen. Peter brought up a good
point when he mentioned, can the fly take many strikes before falling apart?
I am looking forward to finding out.
-tom

On Tue, 02 May 2006 20:43:35 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:



I'm not quite sure how a fly could be both aesthetically
lacking and well tied at the same time. But having said
that I've tied some awful looking things that caught fish.

I admit to tying a couple of really crappy files that took many fish.
They were wooly-buggers on a size 12, and I guess, in my
late-Saturday-drunken-stupor I didn't get everything quite right, and
after the first fish the hackle, then the chenille, then damn near
everything else started unravelling. But I caught about a half-dozen
nice fish.

Then tied on a beautifully tied wooly, same color, same everything,
and nada. Go figger.

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. net...

I'm not quite sure how a fly could be both aesthetically
lacking and well tied at the same time. But having said
that I've tied some awful looking things that caught fish.....

Leading one to wonder how it is that some folks expect others to understand
what they say when they are themselves absolutely clueless.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. net...

I'm not quite sure how a fly could be both aesthetically
lacking and well tied at the same time. But having said
that I've tied some awful looking things that caught fish.....

Leading one to wonder how it is that some folks expect others to
understand what they say when they are themselves absolutely clueless.


It's funny to think back that you two were once lovers.