And you said it couldn't happen

On 20 May 2006 18:29:48 -0700, "Wolfgang" wrote:

...So, let's do a little math, forgetting about earned income vs. taxable
income, etc., and just use what you've cut-n-pasted. The person who
earned 5.3 mil would pay around 1.75mil or about a third of their
income, and the 36K person would pay around 5.1K, or about 1/7 of their
income....

O.k., I'm not real good at math. Maybe you can help me out here.
Which one has $3,550,000 left and which one $30,900 after taxes?

And not very good at logic, either...here, it's real simple - the person
who _earned_ 5.3 mil has 3.55 mil or 2/3 of their _earned_ income and
the person who _earned_ 36K has 30.9K or 6/7 of their _earned_ income...

Let me guess.....some of you guys STILL think this filthy little thing
is a human being......right?

No "we" don't...and you're a liar...

Wolfgang
who, last time he looked (just over a month ago) paid the feds about a
fifth of his taxable income

Maybe you and Myron could get a twofer-deal at H & R Blockhead...and
maybe they can explain, in one-syllable words, why being taxed O% of his
_earned_ income and 20% of your "earned" income beats the **** out of
33.3% of another's _earned_ income....

.......and is wondering where his millions went.

It's the result of a cheap education and making EXTREMELY bad wagers,
one nickel at time...oh, wait...did you mean dollars? Hey, at least in
theory, you might live to 52,397...

HTH,
The Unclean One

On 20 May 2006 17:14:18 -0700, "Wolfgang" wrote:

...We've been down this road before, but trust me; being an expat worker is
just another slice of real life; it comes with its benefits and its
expenses, but its not the end of the rainbow. Its a choice of lifestyle
based on knowing the benefits and deficits.....

A choice. Then why the periodic whines?

Copycat...

Copycat...

****bag.

Wolfgang

O.k., I'm not real good at math. Maybe you can help me out here.
Which one has $3,550,000 left and which one $30,900 after taxes?



And not very good at logic, either...here, it's real simple - the person
who _earned_ 5.3 mil has 3.55 mil or 2/3 of their _earned_ income and
the person who _earned_ 36K has 30.9K or 6/7 of their _earned_ income...

Logic? Ooh.....FUN! How do we know that anybody involved "earned"
anything?

Let me guess.....some of you guys STILL think this filthy little thing
is a human being......right?

No "we" don't...

Well, that's good.

and you're a liar...

Ouch.

Wolfgang
who, last time he looked (just over a month ago) paid the feds about a
fifth of his taxable income


Maybe you and Myron could get a twofer-deal at H & R Blockhead...and
maybe they can explain, in one-syllable words, why being taxed O% of his
_earned_ income and 20% of your "earned" income beats the **** out of
33.3% of another's _earned_ income....

You should try working for a living sometime......you'd be surprised at
what it would do to your perspective.

.......and is wondering where his millions went.


It's the result of a cheap education and making EXTREMELY bad wagers,
one nickel at time...oh, wait...did you mean dollars? Hey, at least in
theory, you might live to 52,397...

I got a shiny new nickel says I know where this exchance is going to
go.

Wolfgang
yeah, i'm easily amused........so?

On 20 May 2006 20:26:50 -0700, "Wolfgang" wrote:

It's the result of a cheap education and making EXTREMELY bad wagers,
one nickel at time...oh, wait...did you mean dollars? Hey, at least in
theory, you might live to 52,397...

I got a shiny new nickel says I know where this exchance is going to
go.

Well, see...you just don't how to put your pittance to work for you...

On 20 May 2006 20:19:16 -0700, "Wolfgang" wrote:

Copycat...

****bag.

Hey, hey...I'm a douchebag, thank you very much...

"riverman" wrote in message ...

"riverman" wrote in message
...


LOL. http://tinyurl.com/p87wu

"But repealing the exclusion would also pinch many less-fortunate
Americans in low-tax overseas locations such as Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia
and Singapore. These workers include US taxpayers hired on increasingly
common "local" pay packages - which contain fewer perks and are cheaper
for companies to provide - and people like teachers and not-for-profit
workers, who enjoy no corporate largess. "

--riverman



And in the USA the average person gets a $24,000 exclusion, and you complain
about a drop from $80k to $70k exclusion? And if you get your housing paid
for here in the states, it counts towards your taxable income. I always
thought it was rip to give the exclusion in the first place. When I had to
go overseas on business, I did not get an exclusion on my pay during the 2-3
weeks I traveled.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 May 2006 12:25:19 +0800, "riverman" wrote:


"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
"riverman" wrote in message
...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...ess/expats.php

Those rat *******s. Because of the cost of rentals in HK, my housing
benefit is technically higher than my income. And now I'm going to be
taxed on this 'invisible money' at a rate higher than if I was even
living in the US.

If what you say about your income is accurate, get your contract changed
and the housing allowance moved into your base salary.

The school is looking at ways to legally accomodate this new law, but
their
first impression is that there will be a mass exodus of americans in the
next few years.


Otherwise, I'd like to sympathize but I don't get my first 80K tax
exempt
nor my housing paid for.



'First' 80K? Who makes anywhere near $80K?

OK, my brother, I'm still with ya, but I'm kinda wondering what's the
problem here? If you don't make 80K, I'm guessing the new 82K isn't a
problem, either, but with these rat *******s having forced you into
this...

And my HK taxes are already
higher than my US taxes would be, as they are at a flat rate, with no
exemption or standard deduction. Also, you get to have a retirement plan,
a
ROTH, a representative in the government to protect your rights, etc. You
also get the option to own your housing, and to write off the interest on
your loan against your mortage payment, which is akin to having your
housing
paid for and then some.

Yeah, Wayne...I just hope you thank God every morning that when they
came to force you into working outside the US, you escaped and have
managed to stay out of their clutches ever since...I'm planning on doing
what I can to help my brother Myron escape - surely you're with us,
aren't ya, my brother?

We've been down this road before, but trust me; being an expat worker is
just another slice of real life; it comes with its benefits and its
expenses, but its not the end of the rainbow.

Its a choice of lifestyle

Oh...hmm, ya know, my ex-stepbrother-in-law, it's kinda hard to work up
a really good sense of outrage against a stove company when the "victim"
claims they got a bad burn and a scar that said "Do Not Sit Here" _EVERY
time_ they hopped up on it...

HTH,
R


And are not those British taxes deductible, or a credit against US taxes?

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...


And are not those British taxes deductible, or a credit against US taxes?

Hi Bill (et al),
I wasn't going to discuss this here, because I know that its beyond
understanding of most folks in the states. They hear 'tax exemption' all
their sympathies go out the window, and are replaced with thoughts like 'I
pay my taxes, you should pay yours' and 'gee, I wish I had an $80K
exemption' and they miss the details. Its the inability or unwillingness to
consider those details that enables things like this tax law to get passed
in the first place.

Let me explain the details one time, then I'm EOT because the talk I've seen
here shows me that my frustration is not understood nor sympathized with,
and instead (knowing the history of this forum), people here love to get all
piranha on each other when they see someone truly upset, as I am.

First of all, I don't pay taxes to the Brits. I pay to the HK government,
which is a Special Administrative Region of the Chinese Government. So my
tax dollars (at a 15% flat 15% rate of my income-plus-10%, with no
exemptions or deductions) goes to fund the big Chinese entity in the east.
That's a condition of working here in HK which I was fully aware of and am
not concerned with. My HK tax, after all the nickles and dimes, is
reasonable as HK prefers to keep taxes low to entice businesses to come
here. I pay something in the realm of $3000 US for yearly HK taxes.

Second of all, I still don't pay any US taxes on my income. That exemption
was actually increased, something that only affects the expats who earn more
than $82K a year, which for the record is not even in the ballpark of my
salary. As far as HK expats go, I earn a teacher's salary.

Now, some of most of you are already not listening, because I said the magic
turnoff words 'don't pay US taxes', but consider the rest of the picture.

The new US tax burden is on the Housing Benefit alone. It was designed to
target those expat corporate execs who are earning $100K per year, but are
being given luxurious $3K -$4K per month apartments in cities all over the
world as a tax-hidden benefit, most of which are in countries with standards
of living far below the US. Those guys are living like kings, as $3k buys a
mansion. It specifically lowers the excludable housing allowance from
whatever it was (beyond what my housing was worth) to about $11K. For most
expats in the world, the new housing cap has no effect, as your average
teacher's apartment is probably in the realm of $300-$400 a month.

Here in HK, thats not the case. In fact, HK is being held up as a specific
place where the new law doesn't fit. Apartments are EXPENSIVE. I could not
affort to teach here if I had to pay my own rent; my 1-story 2 bedroom flat,
with a kitchen that measures 3x4 feet and a bedroom only big enough for a
bed (no dresser) rents for $3500 per month. In fact, the rental on my
efficiency apartment exceeds my yearly income.

And any housing benefit I recieve that has value beyond $11k, I now have to
pay US taxes on. So my tax liability is now based on US$31000. To top that
off, the tax tables for this particular expat tax aren't 'stepped': you pay
the full rate on the first dollar, instead of a smaller percentage on the
first chunk, as with most other US taxes. On top of that, its a higher tax
rate than regular income tax. The result is that it looks like I'll be
liable for about $6000 in US taxes next year. Keep in mind, the new law
prohibits me from writing off my HK taxes against that, as its a tax on a
different part of my income. The HK tax is against my US income tax, which
is sheltered. Also, there are NO shelters allowed against the new housing
tax. Its a flat rate without loopholes. Also, keep in mind that in any other
part of the world, if I were getting a $3500 apartment, I'd be a corporate
exec with discretionary funds, corporate largesse, access to corporate
accountants, and could easily dodge this bullet with voodoo bookkeeping.
But, of all the expats in the world, its HK medium income workers who are
being caught in the crosshairs the most.

Now, for the IMPORTANT part (for those of you who stopped reading at 'I
don't pay taxes'). If I worked in the US, I wouldn't pay taxes either,
just as many of you don't pay taxes. My income, as a teacher with 15 years
experience, would be about what it is now, however I could itemize. I could
write off my exemption, my yearly donation to a ROTH or 401K, my mortagage
interest, my work-related expenses, my home improvement costs, education
expenses, travel expenses, moving expenses, etc etc etc, and at the end of
the year, I'd be getting back pretty much all I sent in. (Maybe less a
thousand or two, but not much.). But since I do not have any US based
income, I can't write off those expenses. I'm not even allowed to have some
of them (ROTH), and the others I have to just eat, like the mortage interest
and housing expenses. But thats okay; the $82K exemption I am allowed
roughly offsets those expenses, and the net result is the same. So please
don't think that my tax exemption is any big thing: its another way to get
the same benefit I would get if I itemized US-based income as a teacher. Its
been that way since I moved overseas; the only difference is that its easier
to file.

But this NEW thing....thats a different story. Its a harsh tax, without
loopholes or exemptions, that will hit HK workers (and Singapore and
Bermuda) hard. My housing benefit is an invisible benefit: my house in Congo
was nicer than my HK apartment, but because of the inflated rate of HK
apartments, I have to pay a huge percentage of my takehome pay, in excess of
the tax I already pay the HK government, to the US. And the US is the ONLY
NATION on earth that makes its expats pay taxes.

Now, before any of you get all 'I wish my income was sheltered' on me, go
back and read what I wrote. If you earned what I earn, you shouldn't be
paying more than a few thousand dollars a year either. THE TAX SHELTER DOES
NOT GIVE AN ADVANTAGE: IT ONLY LEVEL THE FIELD TO WHAT WE"D HAVE BACK IN THE
US. But if you still think that 'well, if you chose to earn a teacher's
salary, then you have no grounds to complain about not having anything left
after this big tax' then how can you dare challenge RDean's defense of HIS
taxes. He's saying the precise same thing to you: just because you're not
rich, don't bitch about losing a big chunk of your income (forget about
percentages).

OK, thats EOT, because if you still don't get it, I can't help you.

--riverman

It's the result of a cheap education and making EXTREMELY bad wagers,
one nickel at time...oh, wait...did you mean dollars? Hey, at least in
theory, you might live to 52,397...

I got a shiny new nickel says I know where this exchance is going to
go.



Well, see...you just don't how to put your pittance to work for you...

My pittance does all I ask of it. It doesn't keep me awake at night.
The more interesting and fruitful area of exploration, I think, is why
it, like so many other things, terrifies YOU so badly.

Wolfgang

BOO!

hee, hee, hee.