TR for the Bighorn Micro Clave and a Trip to Chas's

"Warren" wrote in message ...
lid wrote...

"rw" wrote in message
m...

Just for a bit of clarification, there were nicks in the rod
that I found after the rod broke from what looked like damage
caused by being nicked by big flies. There were white marks
running horizontal to the break on the low end and also a few
nicks on the tip near where the break was. In all honesty I
feel that the rod broke because it was damaged, not because I
was putting too much pressure on a fish that was running
upstream of me. I was pretty much letting the fish spool line
off so that I could wear it out fighting the current instead
of fighting me. I was in the middle of the river without a
net and was basically trying to tire the fish out enough so
that I could land, unhook and release the fish without having
to horse it in and then handle an unruly fish.


Warren,
I have little doubt that you have considerable experience in and knowledge in playing fish, but this
type of fish in heavy current is a whole different dynamic than most trout fishing and something you
admit to having little experience with. While it seems very likely that a nick in the rod contributed
greatly to the break, there is a strong possibility that the rod would not have broken - even with a
nick - if a lower rod angle were utilized. Again, its not about the amount of pressure on the fish,
but about the amount of stress on the rod. Even though you were were letting the fish wear itself out
running upstream against the current ( an excellent tactic on large fish), the angle of the bend in
the rod is most indicative of the amount of stress on the rod. There are some situations where
landing a fish by yourself requires using a very steep angle on the rod (landing fish while in a float
tube is a prime example). However, the situation shown in the pictures does not appear to be one of
them. The pictures show you on a gravel bar that gave you room to keep a low rod angle while leading
the fish into shallow water. If you realse all pressure on the fish as soon as the water is shallow
enough that they need to lay on their side, virtually all salmonids ( even relatively "hot" fish)
cease their struggle long enough for you to unhook them, or, if you wish, kill them.

In the pictures you mentioned, if you look closely, you will
see that I am in the process of landing the fish. #16 has me
laying the rod off to the side and towards the camera in an
effort to turn the fish's head out of the current so that the
current works for me instead of against me. #17 shows me
bringing the rod in so that I could grab the leader (12'
leader, 9' rod, you do the math).

Maybe it is the camera angle, but in picture #16 it definately appears that the butt of the rod is
tilted forward towards the fish greatly reducing the angle between rod and fish. As for grabbing the
leader, as I point out above, the best technique (when there is room) is to not even attempt that
until to fish is in shallow water on its side with no pressure on the line.

Two questions Bob:

1) Why are you checking out my rod? bseg

Only your FISHING rod.

2) Do you think the camera angle has you a bit confused?

Possibly


If you look closely, you will see that I am angling the rod
out to the side as I land the fish. This can be deceptive
since the rod is coming off to the side and also back at the
camera. Trust me, I know how to land fish and while I
appreciate your input, I think you are waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy off
on this one. I will gladly demonstrate the phenomenon in
person if you put me over some big fish. g

You have an open invitation to come over and receive personal tutoring with big hot steelhead (not the
worn out old boots that Steve targets ;) ) anytime that I am available (which is most of the time)
between July and late Nov. - mid Oct is the best.


Sorry, but a third question:

3) I understand what you are saying about the rod angle and
can "dig" it. You claim to land 20# fish using a 6 wt just as
fast as people using 8 and 9 wt rods. What tricks do you use?
I am sure I will be getting back into that kind of fishing and
any tips would be appreciated. It *is* a totally different
kind of fishing than I am used to and I would appreciate any
tips you can offer. (Joke mode on) The angle of the dangle is
inversely proportional to the heat of the meat. How would you
change my meat? ;-)

All joking aside, I would like to hear what your
recommendations are for landing big fish on a lighter weight
rod are. Chasing those pinks has me wanting something else
and I don't think the fishing around here will suffice. I am
seriously contemplating another trip out to Chas's for some
more fishing. Chas's son Andy gave me an earful that has me
totally wanting to come out again for "the big fish" and I
could use all the advice you can give. You can email me with
your secret patterns if you like, I know I would! g
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

With the exception of keeping a moderately low rod angle and taking ALL pressure off the fish as soon
as you have it in shallow enough water, you are probably already using most of the tricks. You
already mentioned making the fish fight the current as well as you, but an even more effective
technique, if the fish is not directly upstream (or at all downstream), is keep a relatively low rod
angle and point your rod somewhat across the current rather than directly at the fish, so that the
current puts a downstream bend in your line between you and the fish. This not only causes the fish
to fight both the current and the pull of the current against your line, but acts as an excellent
shock absorber when the fish makes sudden lunges or jumps. Another "trick" is to change the direction
of pull against the fish as often as possible so that it is constantly having to adjust its position
relative to the current. This seems to considerably reduce the time needed to wear them down enough
to land.

I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically, but like most trout fishermen, even quite experienced
fishermen like yourself, you (at least as I percieved from the pictures) seemed to be unaware of some
factors that are almost never an issue in normal trout fishing, but can become critical when handling
large strong fish in strong currents. I hope you took my comments as intended - suggestions to help
you better deal with this type of fishing rather than as attacks on your abilities.

Although I have some patterns that I prefer over others for varying conditions, I have no secret
patterns, and am convinced that MOST OF THE TIME pattern doesn't matter all that much for most
anadromous fish. Well I better end this overly long post and get busy finishing packing for Kodiak.
I'll be away from any computer between tomorrow AM and the evening of 10/3.

--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

lid wrote...
snipped

Maybe it is the camera angle, but in picture #16 it definately appears that the butt of the rod is
tilted forward towards the fish greatly reducing the angle between rod and fish. As for grabbing the
leader, as I point out above, the best technique (when there is room) is to not even attempt that
until to fish is in shallow water on its side with no pressure on the line.

The butt of the rod is tilted towards the fish in pic 16 and I
am understanding what you are saying. The method you describe
is the way I normally fight fish unless I am trying to turn
their head out of the current. Definitely something I will
take note of next time I get to tangle with those beasts.

1) Why are you checking out my rod? bseg

Only your FISHING rod.

That's what they *all* say. . . . g

You have an open invitation to come over and receive personal tutoring with big hot steelhead (not the
worn out old boots that Steve targets ;) ) anytime that I am available (which is most of the time)
between July and late Nov. - mid Oct is the best.

I'd seriously like to take you up on that sometime. Only
fishing for trout has taken some of the zest out of fishing
and this new experience was exactly what the doctor ordered to
put that fire back in my eye.

With the exception of keeping a moderately low rod angle and taking ALL pressure off the fish as soon
as you have it in shallow enough water, you are probably already using most of the tricks. You
already mentioned making the fish fight the current as well as you, but an even more effective
technique, if the fish is not directly upstream (or at all downstream), is keep a relatively low rod
angle and point your rod somewhat across the current rather than directly at the fish, so that the
current puts a downstream bend in your line between you and the fish. This not only causes the fish
to fight both the current and the pull of the current against your line, but acts as an excellent
shock absorber when the fish makes sudden lunges or jumps. Another "trick" is to change the direction
of pull against the fish as often as possible so that it is constantly having to adjust its position
relative to the current. This seems to considerably reduce the time needed to wear them down enough
to land.

I'll have to try that downstream line trick sometime. It
makes a lot of sense.

I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically, but like most trout fishermen, even quite experienced
fishermen like yourself, you (at least as I percieved from the pictures) seemed to be unaware of some
factors that are almost never an issue in normal trout fishing, but can become critical when handling
large strong fish in strong currents. I hope you took my comments as intended - suggestions to help
you better deal with this type of fishing rather than as attacks on your abilities.

No, I totally took it as a constructive thing instead of as an
attack and I appreciate it. Something I will definitely start
watching out for in the future so that I can break what could
be a terrible habit should I ever do more of that type of
fishing.

Although I have some patterns that I prefer over others for varying conditions, I have no secret
patterns, and am convinced that MOST OF THE TIME pattern doesn't matter all that much for most
anadromous fish. Well I better end this overly long post and get busy finishing packing for Kodiak.
I'll be away from any computer between tomorrow AM and the evening of 10/3.

Good luck on the trip! I look forward to reading the TR.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)