sad news, indeed

"rw" wrote in message
ink.net...
Alaskan420 wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...

That these men and women died, and many more have been grievously
wounded, in addition to over 50,000 innocent Iraqi civilians killed, in
an optional war based on lies:

SNIP


Something else which is sad is trying to use the deceased to bolster an
incorrect idealogy. Where do you get the 50,000 civilian figure from?

That statistic is from the Baghdad morgue and the Iraqi Health Ministry.
It's a breaking story in the LA Times, among other places:

http://tinyurl.com/zt5ef

Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists
3,148

Yes, it is also sad that we made Iraq into a killing field for al Qaeda
and sectarian violence. It didn't have to be that way. It's a result of
incompetence and negligence.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Wow! The LA Times? Well, there's an unbiased source for you. Why didn't you
go all out and quote the NY Times or Geraldo?
And please... Do you truly believe Islamic terrorism exists because of
George Bush?

Do you just find it convenient to forget the USS Cole, (Clinton)? The
embassy bombings in Mogadishu, (Clinton)? Or any of the other 138,643
Islamic terrorist attacks recorded since 1967? Or is that just another
symptom of the liberal dogma?

I am very willing to debate the war with anyone but please don't just spew
what you've read in the papers, liberal or conservative. Do the research for
yourself and come to the table prepared.

And before anyone goes off half-cocked. I agree that Bush lied to us.
Whether he believed incorrect reports or lied intentionally I do not know. I
am not in his head. Some WMD have been found but nothing to justify the
claims at the beggining of the war. I also, as do many conservatives, think
he is doing a terrible job in almost all respects. (You don't think the
miniscule blue states could be entirely responsible for his crappy approval
ratings do you?) The anti-Bush movement completely misses the real issues
and gets bogged down in petty politics. A serious waste of energy and
political might.

The global problem of Islamic terrorism has very little to do with who's
president or even America itself. And Iraq was an internal "killing field"
long before the U.S. got involved. To the tune of 180,000 murdered .
Source... http://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfal/#Table%20of (a
liberal organization)

And, once again to clarify, I am not a conservative / republican.


--
Ric Hamel
A misplaced Alaskan lost in ConUS

Alaskan420 wrote:
"rw" wrote in message

That statistic is from the Baghdad morgue and the Iraqi Health Ministry.
It's a breaking story in the LA Times, among other places:

http://tinyurl.com/zt5ef


Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists
3,148

Yes, it is also sad that we made Iraq into a killing field for al Qaeda
and sectarian violence. It didn't have to be that way. It's a result of
incompetence and negligence.

Wow! The LA Times? Well, there's an unbiased source for you. Why didn't you
go all out and quote the NY Times or Geraldo?

The information comes from the Baghdad morgue and the Iraqi Health
Ministry. The LA Times is merely reporting it.

BTW, The new Iraqi government is calling for a timetable for the
withdrawal of American troops. I couldn't agree more, and the sooner the
better.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Alaskan420 wrote:

And before anyone goes off half-cocked. I agree that Bush lied to us.
Whether he believed incorrect reports or lied intentionally I do not know. I
am not in his head. Some WMD have been found but nothing to justify the
claims at the beggining of the war. I also, as do many conservatives, think
he is doing a terrible job in almost all respects.

snip


And, once again to clarify, I am not a conservative / republican.

You just called yourself a conservative, right up there. See?

So what are you?

Whatever GWB is, he isn't a conservative.

-----
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...
Alaskan420 wrote:

And before anyone goes off half-cocked. I agree that Bush lied to us.
Whether he believed incorrect reports or lied intentionally I do not
know. I
am not in his head. Some WMD have been found but nothing to justify the
claims at the beggining of the war. I also, as do many conservatives,
think
he is doing a terrible job in almost all respects.

snip


And, once again to clarify, I am not a conservative / republican.

You just called yourself a conservative, right up there. See?

So what are you?

Whatever GWB is, he isn't a conservative.

-----
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

In order to discuss this you have to be able to read. I did NOT say I was a
conservative. Read it again. I did not say "other conservatives".

I am a Libertarian.

--
Ric Hamel
A misplaced Alaskan lost in ConUS

Alaskan420 wrote:

In order to discuss this you have to be able to read. I did NOT say I was a
conservative. Read it again. I did not say "other conservatives".

I am a Libertarian.

Well excuse the hell out of me, Mr. Libertarian. Are you going to vote
Republican or Democrat in 2006?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
k.net...
Alaskan420 wrote:

In order to discuss this you have to be able to read. I did NOT say I
was a
conservative. Read it again. I did not say "other conservatives".

I am a Libertarian.

Well excuse the hell out of me, Mr. Libertarian. Are you going to vote
Republican or Democrat in 2006?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

I will vote for who I think can do the best job. Regardless of party
affiliation.


--
Ric Hamel
A misplaced Alaskan lost in ConUS

In article ZRIng.2141$TC1.517@trndny08, says...

"rw" wrote in message
k.net...
Alaskan420 wrote:

I am a Libertarian.

Well excuse the hell out of me, Mr. Libertarian. Are you going to vote
Republican or Democrat in 2006?

I will vote for who I think can do the best job. Regardless of party
affiliation.

How dare you! Don't you know, the world is black and white.
- Ken

"Alaskan420" wrote in message
news:8gHng.9164$U%1.5780@trndny07...

is that just another
symptom of the liberal dogma?

I am very willing to debate the war with anyone but please don't just spew
what you've read in the papers, liberal or conservative. Do the research
for
yourself and come to the table prepared.


I told you once. you are seriously undergunned in the logic department. I
do not think you want to go there.

And before anyone goes off half-cocked.

They have medicines so you can get full-cocked. I work in health care trust
me.

The global problem of Islamic terrorism has very little to do with who's
president or even America itself. And Iraq was an internal "killing field"
long before the U.S. got involved.

Iraq wasn't about global terrorism but since you must, what about the other
killing fields that we so conviently don't consider our issue? Oh, they
don't sit on a large crude oil deposit.

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
. ..

"Alaskan420" wrote in message
news:8gHng.9164$U%1.5780@trndny07...

is that just another
symptom of the liberal dogma?

I am very willing to debate the war with anyone but please don't just
spew
what you've read in the papers, liberal or conservative. Do the research
for
yourself and come to the table prepared.


I told you once. you are seriously undergunned in the logic department. I
do not think you want to go there.

And before anyone goes off half-cocked.

They have medicines so you can get full-cocked. I work in health care
trust
me.

The global problem of Islamic terrorism has very little to do with who's
president or even America itself. And Iraq was an internal "killing
field"
long before the U.S. got involved.

Iraq wasn't about global terrorism but since you must, what about the
other
killing fields that we so conviently don't consider our issue? Oh, they
don't sit on a large crude oil deposit.

Ummm...

Who said Iraq was about Global terrorism? Notice the "period" after the word
itself? You have to read rw's previous post. That sentence was a response to
his claim that we turned Iraq into a killing field. Which we did not. We
just added American casualties.

Do you folks truly believe Iraq was about oil? If so, can you tell me where
it's going since we've been there? Why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia? Far
more oil and certainly more valid political reasons to attack there.

P.S. Wayne, personnal attacks don't validate your political view. Show me
facts. I am a logical person. My opinions can change.


--
Ric Hamel
A misplaced Alaskan lost in ConUS

"Alaskan420" wrote in message
news:mIIng.1044$Bb.569@trndny01...

P.S. Wayne, personnal attacks don't validate your political view. Show me
facts. I am a logical person. My opinions can change.


If you think that was a personal attack, you need to do some re-reading and
read other posts. Saying you don't have the weapons is not implying you're
stupid, it's saying it's not an area where, in my not so humble opinion, you
aren't on the same playing field.

As an aside and to illustrate the point, I dabble in carpentry and
woodworking. I also own a boat, a specialized fishing boat used only a few
geologically distinct streams in Michigan. The boat needs re-work, which I
could do myself, if I wanted to bring it to Indianapolis but I don't really
have the garage space nor the time so I hired it out via a friend to a
gentleman. When discussing this person it was hired out to, a third party
made some comment about this guy's intellectual ability. I met the guy on
Saturday, toured his shop, and generally shot the crap. He doesn't fly fish
which was the cause of the comment, but he is an amazing carpenter, makes
amazing boats and does work that if he was a painter, could be on a par with
a Monet. I could sand and re-epoxy the boat, he's going to make it look like
new and finish it so I won't be doing it again in five year. So what if he
never studied the art of debate? His debating skills came from yanking
wounded soldiers out of Vietnamese rice paddies, a long recuperation from
wounds, and a love for working with wood. He's as smart or smarter than the
next guy, just in a different area.

Facts, such as they are, can be hard to come by, much less validate but as
someone else so neatly put it, some of what appears to me to be your
*opinion* were stated as facts. There are a whole bunch of formally (and
unformally) educated people here. I learned a long time ago, posting the
wrong thing as a fact will very quickly blow up in your face.

If in your opinion, you think the undeclared *war* in Iraq is worth it in
the battle *against terrorism*, then so be it. It wasn't a killing field
before hand, it was a dictatorship and given the issues trying to get the
disparate parties to agree, then maybe one can see why it was *governed*
that way. We didn't need to use up 2,500+ US servicemen's lives and
countless others wounded and maimed to join the fray. That's my opinion
anyway. Regardless it has occurred, lets clean the mess up and do what we
can to lessen future casualties and get back to the issue at hand. We didn't
do the right thing in Vietnam by our dead, hopefully somehow, someway, this
current administration can find their way out of this thing without
repeating the legacy.