Tail end of the Pmd hatch

JR wrote:
Tom Nakashima wrote:

"rw" wrote


Agreed, the Adams is the most versatile dry fly. I prefer the
parachute style and always carry sizes from #10 to #20.

I'll ditto the Adams pattern, my favorite, mine rage from #12-20 in
both light and dark.
I also have the Parachute Adams in 14-20 light and dark as well.
These are the 4 dry-fly patterns I fish the most.


I much prefer the traditional Adams to the para style, though I know the
latter tends to be much more popular these days.

I see the traditional tie better on the water under a wider range of
conditions. It also seems to produce better, which of course may merely
be a function of the "confidence factor."

I prefer the parachute pattern for four reasons:

(1) It sits lower in the water, as someone else said. The fish seem to
like that.

(2) I hate tying the wings onto a traditional Adams.

(3) It's symmetrical, and so doesn't tend to twist the tippet, as a
traditional Adams does unless it's perfectly tied.

(4) I can see it better. (Different folks, different strokes.) I use
white Antron for the post.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in news:ea5o25$6vi$1
@news.Stanford.EDU:

This may sound strange, but I actually had a rainbow swallow a #16 Adams
when the line & fly when under.


When you're trying to do this, its called wet fly fishing. Very
productive, very big fish, but unfortunately out of style. Next time you
find yourself upstream from an intermittant rise, try to take the fish
with
a wet fly, like a partridge and green. I tie a very buggy looking hair
wing wet that works very well.

Fish the wet fly like a wet fly-- quartering downstream cast, mend
upstream
to slow down the swing, and try to start the big part of the swing right
in
front of the trout you're fishing to. The more fish you take when you do
this in the perfect conditions, like the downstream intermittant riser,
the
more confidence you'll develop in the technique for general fishing
purposes.
--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Thanks for the technique advice on the wet-fly.
Two questions, what did you mean by; unfortunately out of style?
And when you said; "fish the wet fly like a wet fly" did you possibly mean;
fish the dry fly like a wet fly?
-tom

"rw" wrote in message
m...

I prefer the parachute pattern for four reasons:

(1) It sits lower in the water, as someone else said. The fish seem to
like that.

I thought the Parachute Adams sits higher in the water, due to the
parachute.


(2) I hate tying the wings onto a traditional Adams.

But that's not the main reason for favoring the Parachute Adams over the
Adams?


(3) It's symmetrical, and so doesn't tend to twist the tippet, as a
traditional Adams does unless it's perfectly tied.

Interesting, never had a problem with twist with the Adams...your casting
technique?
I've notice some casters to have a natural twist of the tippet with any fly.


(4) I can see it better. (Different folks, different strokes.) I use white
Antron for the post.

That I do agree, the Parachute Adams is more visible, due to the parachute
riding high on top of the water and usually a lighter color.

I do enjoy using both the Adams and the Parachute Adams before anything else
goes on unless I know the hatch.
-tom

rw wrote in news:44c67168$0$24195
:

I prefer the parachute pattern for four reasons:

(1) It sits lower in the water, as someone else said. The fish seem to
like that.

(2) I hate tying the wings onto a traditional Adams.

(3) It's symmetrical, and so doesn't tend to twist the tippet, as a
traditional Adams does unless it's perfectly tied.

(4) I can see it better. (Different folks, different strokes.) I use
white Antron for the post.



Boy, wait until you try the Usual!! Same advantages, easier and faster
tie, and you don't need a neck.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in
:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Tom Nakashima" wrote in news:ea5o25$6vi$1
@news.Stanford.EDU:

This may sound strange, but I actually had a rainbow swallow a #16
Adams when the line & fly when under.


When you're trying to do this, its called wet fly fishing. Very
productive, very big fish, but unfortunately out of style. Next time
you find yourself upstream from an intermittant rise, try to take the
fish with
a wet fly, like a partridge and green. I tie a very buggy looking
hair wing wet that works very well.

Fish the wet fly like a wet fly-- quartering downstream cast, mend
upstream
to slow down the swing, and try to start the big part of the swing
right in
front of the trout you're fishing to. The more fish you take when
you do this in the perfect conditions, like the downstream
intermittant riser, the
more confidence you'll develop in the technique for general fishing
purposes.
--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Thanks for the technique advice on the wet-fly.
Two questions, what did you mean by; unfortunately out of style?

It used to be a very popular way to fish. I still know some old timers
who use a cast of wet flies (people often fish three at once), fish them
hard the whole season, and have the same three flies tied on at the end
of the season.

People fish them much less now. I say "unfortunately" because I find it
a very pleasurable way to fish. After a hard days fishing with the
"new" methods, you're well upstream, and all but fished out. You can
wade all the way downstream, back to your car, fishing a cast of wets.
You cover alot of water very quickly, and you don't need to concentrate
very hard. You don't need to get just the right drift in tricky
currents. You don't need to make sure your fly passes within a c-hair of
the fish. You don't worry about a dead drift. You don't worry about
missing a strike (there's little ambiguity in the strike on a wet fly).
You just lazily fish, and cover water fast.

And when you said; "fish the wet fly like a wet fly" did you possibly
mean; fish the dry fly like a wet fly?
-tom


I meant you don't fish it like a dead-drift nymph. The interaction
between your line, the current, and the wet fly is central to the style.
You can, of course, dead drift them if the situation calls for it, but
this takes more concentration.


Really enjoy reading your descriptions Scott, you explain things very well.
-tom

Tom Nakashima wrote:
"rw" wrote in message
m...

I prefer the parachute pattern for four reasons:

(1) It sits lower in the water, as someone else said. The fish seem to
like that.


I thought the Parachute Adams sits higher in the water, due to the
parachute.

The hackle on a parachute tie doesn't extend below the hook shank (or at
least not very far below it). That's why they float lower than a
traditionally hackled fly.


(2) I hate tying the wings onto a traditional Adams.


But that's not the main reason for favoring the Parachute Adams over the
Adams?

If I'm tying them, yes, it is a reason.


(3) It's symmetrical, and so doesn't tend to twist the tippet, as a
traditional Adams does unless it's perfectly tied.


Interesting, never had a problem with twist with the Adams...your casting
technique?
I've notice some casters to have a natural twist of the tippet with any fly.

Any asymmetry in the tie (i.e., the wings) will tend to cause the tippet
to twist -- especially fine tippet.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"William Claspy" wrote in message
...
On 7/25/06 2:31 PM, in article , "Tom
Nakashima" wrote:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
rw wrote in news:44c65a05$0$24189
:

If I had to use one fly all season (horrible thought!) it would be a PT
(or maybe a Skip's Nymph).



If I went with a dry, I'd probably go with a Usual, cause I could fish
it
as a nymph in a pinch. Otherwise, I'd probably go w/ a grhe or
something
like that. PT would be another option


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

This may sound strange, but I actually had a rainbow swallow a #16 Adams
when the line & fly when under.
First time that's ever happened to me, but learned that you could
possibly
fish a dry-fly as a wet-fly.

I do that all the time, and sometimes even on purpose :-)

In particular, with an EHC or trude pattern*, swung at the end of the
drift
and given a little bit of action just under the menis...surface of the
water, it can be a deadly method!

With the Adams- and one reason I like the parachute style- the fly sits
pretty low already, and when it becomes almost-wet, or completely wet!, I
think it might resemble an emerging bug. Fish seem to like it anyhow.

Bill

*or Wolfgang's beloved Pass Lake

I prefer to fish with a partner for a number reasons (which might itself
make for an interesting discussion sometime) rather than alone. Back in my
years of troutbumdom, when every fish counted and large numbers were
important, I used to let my EHC or PL (more often the former than the latter
in those days) hang downstream in the current whenever my partner was
fishing. There were many days on which I caught as many fish that way as by
actively casting and a few when I did even better.

I find it odd that so many fly fishers give both wet flies and streamers
short shrift these days. Both can be every bit as effective, useless,
demanding, frustrating, and rewarding as fishing with dries or nymphs. Both
broaden the range of techniques available the fisher and the tier, and both
increase the likelihood of finding something that will work when nothing
else does.

Watching a fish chase and attack a streamer or a wet is every bit as
exciting as seeing it come up for a dry.....and the spectacle typically
lasts longer.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"William Claspy" wrote in message
...
On 7/25/06 2:31 PM, in article , "Tom
Nakashima" wrote:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
rw wrote in news:44c65a05$0$24189
:

If I had to use one fly all season (horrible thought!) it would be a
PT
(or maybe a Skip's Nymph).



If I went with a dry, I'd probably go with a Usual, cause I could fish
it
as a nymph in a pinch. Otherwise, I'd probably go w/ a grhe or
something
like that. PT would be another option


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

This may sound strange, but I actually had a rainbow swallow a #16 Adams
when the line & fly when under.
First time that's ever happened to me, but learned that you could
possibly
fish a dry-fly as a wet-fly.

I do that all the time, and sometimes even on purpose :-)

In particular, with an EHC or trude pattern*, swung at the end of the
drift
and given a little bit of action just under the menis...surface of the
water, it can be a deadly method!

With the Adams- and one reason I like the parachute style- the fly sits
pretty low already, and when it becomes almost-wet, or completely wet!, I
think it might resemble an emerging bug. Fish seem to like it anyhow.

Bill

*or Wolfgang's beloved Pass Lake

I prefer to fish with a partner for a number reasons (which might itself
make for an interesting discussion sometime) rather than alone. Back in
my years of troutbumdom, when every fish counted and large numbers were
important, I used to let my EHC or PL (more often the former than the
latter in those days) hang downstream in the current whenever my partner
was fishing. There were many days on which I caught as many fish that way
as by actively casting and a few when I did even better.

I was thinking similarities since I got back from my trip to Alaska, that
quantity of my catch wasn't important.
It was redundant using the same pattern after five hook-ups or so, that I
was looking for other methods
and techniques to use. Since Scott's post, I'm interested in trying the
older style of the wet-fly techniques.


I find it odd that so many fly fishers give both wet flies and streamers
short shrift these days. Both can be every bit as effective, useless,
demanding, frustrating, and rewarding as fishing with dries or nymphs.
Both broaden the range of techniques available the fisher and the tier,
and both increase the likelihood of finding something that will work when
nothing else does.


Watching a fish chase and attack a streamer or a wet is every bit as
exciting as seeing it come up for a dry.....and the spectacle typically
lasts longer.

Wolfgang

I did catch rainbows with a #4 Black Zuddler streamer, but didn't find it as
exciting as the dry fly.
I'm interested in the wet-fly and will do some research on this.
Any wet-fly advice is always welcome.
-tom

rw wrote:

I prefer the parachute pattern for four reasons:

(1) It sits lower in the water, as someone else said. The fish seem to
like that.

True, it sits lower, but my experience about which the fish prefer is
the opposite.

(2) I hate tying the wings onto a traditional Adams.

I dislike that less than I dislike tying off the horizontally wound hackle.

(3) It's symmetrical, and so doesn't tend to twist the tippet, as a
traditional Adams does unless it's perfectly tied.

So tie it perfectly, for cryin' out loud.

(4) I can see it better. (Different folks, different strokes.) I use
white Antron for the post.

I see it worse. Sits low in the water, you know. g

--
John Russell aka JR

William Claspy wrote:

On 7/25/06 3:02 PM, in article , "Conan The
Librarian" wrote:

Elitist.

:-)

And your point is? :-)

No point, just trying a cast or two to see if I can get a rise.

:-)

Looks like nothing's feeding.

Maybe we should talk about handtools vs. powertools instead. :-)


Chuck Vance