Knot to replace Blood Knot?

bones wrote:
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 21:26:12 -0600, rw
wrote:


well-tied Surgeon's makes an excellent straight connection. I didn't
used to think so before I really learned how to tie it. Are you sure
you're tying it correctly?



I started using a triple Surgeons this year...

Why not? It only takes almost 50% more time than a double Surgeons's. :-)

The key to a good Surgeon's Knot is seating it. Both loops should seat
uniformly. Easier said than done.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 22:19:02 -0600, rw
wrote:

bones wrote:
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 21:26:12 -0600, rw
wrote:


well-tied Surgeon's makes an excellent straight connection. I didn't
used to think so before I really learned how to tie it. Are you sure
you're tying it correctly?



I started using a triple Surgeons this year...

Why not? It only takes almost 50% more time than a double Surgeons's. :-)

The key to a good Surgeon's Knot is seating it. Both loops should seat
uniformly. Easier said than done.

Well, if it breaks half as often I'm ahead of the game :-)

I find that if you pull both tags simultaneously through the loop and
pinch in place between thumb and forefinger the set is easier...
moistening the knot prior to the cinch is a must.

Of course, the knot makes not difference if one is into Tarpon strikes
on an 18" trout.:-)


Do a goggle of Surgeon's knot ... it gets interesting :-)




Harry
troutflies com

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 22:50:28 -0600, rw
wrote:

bones wrote:

Do a goggle of Surgeon's knot ... it gets interesting :-)

I haven't done that Google search, but my understanding is that surgeons
don't use the Surgeon's Knot. :-)


super glue ...
Harry
troutflies com

bones wrote:

Do a goggle of Surgeon's knot ... it gets interesting :-)

I haven't done that Google search, but my understanding is that surgeons
don't use the Surgeon's Knot. :-)

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"riverman" wrote in news:1154622840.240160.100490
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

I just tried it on two pieces of 4x, and it seems very strong and is
quite easy to tie. Its not as simple as the Surgeons Knot, but it has
the advantage that it leaves a linear knot, and its much easier than a
Blood Knot.

What do others think...is this a good leader-tippet or tippet-tippet
knot? I wonder if its even worth doing two or more passes through
rather than the one.

--riverman



The surgeon's is a fine knot, but the ends don't end up perfectly straight
and in line like they do with a blood knot. Because of this, when I use
the surgeons, its just to tie on one piece of tippet, and not to rebuild a
leader.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"riverman" wrote in news:1154622840.240160.100490
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

I just tried it on two pieces of 4x, and it seems very strong and is
quite easy to tie. Its not as simple as the Surgeons Knot, but it has
the advantage that it leaves a linear knot, and its much easier than a
Blood Knot.

What do others think...is this a good leader-tippet or tippet-tippet
knot? I wonder if its even worth doing two or more passes through
rather than the one.

--riverman


There's a variation of the blood knot that's much easier to tie. I have no
pictures, but you tie the two lines together with an overhand knot, just to
attach them. You then form a loop with the overhand at the top end and the
double strand at the bottom. You twist the doubled line together five or
six times, leaving a gap in the center through which you pass the overhand
knot, then tighten and trim. You get a blood knot, but both tag ends come
out the same side of the knot

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"riverman" wrote in message
ups.com...

Wolfgang wrote:

No opinion on efficacy of the knot. However, I did look at the website
and then checked the information presented there against Ashley. I was
mildy suprised to find that the knot wasn't listed under either of the
names given on the website. According to the footnote on the website,
the knot was in use in the 30s (not surprising for a knot named after
Zeppelins). "The Ashley Book of Knots" was first published in 1944.

Another note on the website states that the Zeppelin knot is not the
same thing as the Rigger's bend/Hunter's bend. This one DOES show up
in Ashley under the label 1425A, described on page 260 and illustrated
on the following page. Looking at the illustration, I'm inclined to
agree both with the statement that it is not the same knot and that it
looks pretty much the same upon completion. However, knots are
tricky....that's why they're fun. As any knot maven will declare
(correctly), a knot that differs in any respect.....even in the tiniest
detail.....is a different knot. But....and this is a very important
qualification.....that is true only of the finished product. How you
get there doesn't matter. And two processes that look radically
different in illustration (knots are notoriously difficult to
illustrate anyway) may end up in identical products.


Ahh, Ashley's Book of Knots. As a friend of mine stated, if I were ever
incarcerated for life, I'd want a short length of cord and Ashley's to
accompany me to the cell. I think my friend was thinking of using them
to learn knotlore. I figure I could use the rope to escape, and sell
the book for getaway money. But still.

The short cord will do for learning knot lore. For the othr intended use
I'd recommend a long rope.

Anyway, I think you err on your 'finished product' statement. I
remember looking through the illustrations and finding several versions
of a square knot (IIRC) with different names. What varied was how they
were tied: one was tied with two loose ends, right over left then left
over right, the other was tied like a sheet bend: bend one cord, and
weave the other through. If I had my copy here, I'd peruse it to find
the examples I am thinking of.

No need to find examples......there are many and (among those who pay
attention to such things) they are well known. However, as you stated, what
varies is the method by which the result is arrived at. In fact, there is
also variation in how, where and when the finished product used. Both of
these circumstances (as well as others....like regional or occupational
preferences, for a couple of examples) can result in different names. But a
knot is not a method or a function.....it is a particular topological
configuration of one or more pieces of string, cord, rope or any other
similar flexible material. The important point is that as long as whatever
method is used results in a precisely identical topological configuration it
IS the same knot, regardless of what use it is put to or what it is called,
and ANY deviation in that configuration is something that is NOT the same
knot, regardless of how it is named or used.

Wolfgang

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.4...
The surgeon's is a fine knot, but the ends don't end up perfectly straight
and in line like they do with a blood knot. Because of this, when I use
the surgeons, its just to tie on one piece of tippet, and not to rebuild a
leader.

Same for me. I tie my leaders with a blood-knot exclusively. I seldom use
the surgeon's knot, even for my tippet section, unless I am tying on 6x on a
dark and cloudy day or I'm tying on 7x tippet.

I have all but stopped buying knotless leaders and tie my own leaders using
Orvis' Leader Formula Booklet. It's a very handy little booklet, with
formulas for many different flyline weights and light and heavy leaders.
The nice thing about tying your own leaders is that you know exactly what to
tie back, if you encounter a break.

Op

Scott