why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Charles B. Summers" wrote in message
. ..
Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...


"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been fishing for 37 years now,

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.


I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were
restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with
a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters
of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and
high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with
incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the
accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures
while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know
that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle,

Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range
accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and
distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the
side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away
from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a
bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump.

On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel
to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can
pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is
not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning
Citori, or Shimano Curado.

And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably
owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has
just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the
same problems, but they are problems just the same.

Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels
simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really
like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about
the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it
has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked
constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up
any better.

Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement.
To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably
more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain
silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use
a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the
hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind.

To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I
fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz
rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4
Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a
special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on
the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that
we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides.

I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons,
and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I
also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast
slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do
it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November
tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35
mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL
spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal
with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I
could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the
other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them,
but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing
though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than
I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits
on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I
certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting
tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions
in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite
accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it.


--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime
too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless
you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise
in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans-
and having to maintain the tank to do it.

On 7 Aug 2006 07:18:16 -0700, duty-honor-country wrote:

You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime
too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless
you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise
in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans-
and having to maintain the tank to do it.

Why do you care what people use? If they enjoy using a baitcaster then
more power to them.
--
-Gary

Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
tangles you picked out. I think I had a backlash, o maybe 1500 casts or so
ago...

Warren

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Charles B. Summers" wrote in message
. ..
Apparently you haven't used a baitcaster in a LONG time...


"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been fishing for 37 years now,

Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch
gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait
for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half
kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.


I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were
restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the
with
a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the
baitcasters
of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and
high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with
incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the
accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures
while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes
know
that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle,

Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range
accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed
and
distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over
the
side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away
from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to
make a
bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump.

On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning
reel
to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can
pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is
not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist,
Browning
Citori, or Shimano Curado.

And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably
owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has
just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the
same problems, but they are problems just the same.

Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning
reels
simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really
like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about
the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but
it
has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked
constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up
any better.

Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross
overstatement.
To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably
more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain
silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can
use
a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the
hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind.

To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either.
I
fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz
rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4
Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a
special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing
on
the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far
that
we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides.

I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny
spoons,
and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further.
I
also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast
slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can
do
it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November
tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35
mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL
spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to
deal
with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I
could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than
the
other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of
them,
but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing
thing
though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further
than
I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size
baits
on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle.
I
certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that
baitcasting
tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse
conditions
in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite
accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it.


--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime
too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless
you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise
in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans-
and having to maintain the tank to do it.

WARREN WOLK wrote:
Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
tangles you picked out.

I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
yesterday.

Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
respool of line. It does get better as line size increases- things
are noticeably better now with 15 lb. test on it. Previous 10 & 12 lb
test was a nightmare of sorts.



I think I had a backlash, o maybe 1500 casts or so
ago...

Warren


sure you did....

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

WARREN WOLK wrote:
Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
tangles you picked out.

I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
yesterday.

Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
respool of line.

Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills
with all sorts of people.

jeffc wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

WARREN WOLK wrote:
Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
tangles you picked out.

I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
yesterday.

Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
respool of line.

Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills
with all sorts of people.

there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
reels- are they not just quite good at it ?

your argument does not hold any water.

On 8 Aug 2006 07:20:24 -0700, duty-honor-country wrote:

Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills
with all sorts of people.

there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
reels- are they not just quite good at it ?

your argument does not hold any water.

Yours makes no sense.

Simply, you cannot judge the performance and usage of the baitcaster based
on just your own experience. It appears that you are very much less
skilled than others when it comes to casting and controlling such a reel.
The reason that baitcasters are popular is that they work well for many,
many fisherman. You just don't happen to be one of them.

There is a simple solution, just use your spinning gear and be happy and
recognize that others use and enjoy baitcasters.

Anything less makes you nothing more than a troll.
--
-Gary

Gary Udstrand wrote:
On 8 Aug 2006 07:20:24 -0700, duty-honor-country wrote:

Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills
with all sorts of people.

there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
reels- are they not just quite good at it ?

your argument does not hold any water.

Yours makes no sense.

Simply, you cannot judge the performance and usage of the baitcaster based
on just your own experience. It appears that you are very much less
skilled than others when it comes to casting and controlling such a reel.
The reason that baitcasters are popular is that they work well for many,
many fisherman. You just don't happen to be one of them.

There is a simple solution, just use your spinning gear and be happy and
recognize that others use and enjoy baitcasters.

Anything less makes you nothing more than a troll.
--
-Gary

I disagree- I CAN judge the baitcasting reel I'm using, because I
bought it- so I have that right. It's mine to hold in whatever regard
I want. And after sampling one, unless you use a 3/4 oz. lure and are
willing to give up casting distance- the only thing they are good for,
is cranking big fish in reliably. A baitcaster casting traits are
inferior to spinning and spincasting- in distance and maintenance
issues- i.e. backlash tangles.

You're forgetting, I bought one.

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
oups.com...

jeffc wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

WARREN WOLK wrote:
Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the
backlashes &
tangles you picked out.

I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
yesterday.

Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
respool of line.

Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of
skills
with all sorts of people.

there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
reels- are they not just quite good at it ?

your argument does not hold any water.

Really? Because bass pros use spinning equipment my argument that you're no
good at casting doesn't hold water? Hilarious. How about the fact that as
well as occasional spinning use, pro bass fishermen use casting gear by FAR
more often?

jeffc wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
oups.com...

jeffc wrote:
"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
ups.com...

WARREN WOLK wrote:
Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the
backlashes &
tangles you picked out.

I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
yesterday.

Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
respool of line.

Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of
skills
with all sorts of people.

there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
reels- are they not just quite good at it ?

your argument does not hold any water.

Really? Because bass pros use spinning equipment my argument that you're no
good at casting doesn't hold water? Hilarious. How about the fact that as
well as occasional spinning use, pro bass fishermen use casting gear by FAR
more often?


yes, your argument doesn't hold any water- because you attack people
you don't even know, over fishing tackle preferences.

We're talking fishing tackle here, not people.