why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?

RichZ wrote:
duty-honor-country wrote:
question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.

you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's
what's even sadder.

duty-honor-country wrote:
RichZ wrote:

duty-honor-country wrote:

question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.


you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's
what's even sadder.



??? I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I didn't comment on your
preference for spinning tackle, just your insistence that backlashes and
tangles are unavoidable and 'incessant' with casting tackle -- a
position that just isn't accurate. You seem to think it is, which
reflects only on your your abilities with the tackle, not on the design
of the tackle itself.

There is no denying that casting tackle requires a more skilled and
practiced hand to cast. The lighter the weight being cast, the broader
the gap in how much skill is needed to do it with casting tackle rather
than spinning gear. You apparently haven't developed that skill, and
are blaming the tackle. Then again, you might be trying to learn with a
piece of junk, and it really IS the tackle.

I prefer spinning tackle for any application in which I use 6 lb test or
lower. Since drop shotting is among my favorite techniques, and I pretty
much wrote the book (or at least the article in In-Fisherman magazine
years ago) on light tackle jig & worm fishing, most days I use spinning
gear as much as, or more than casting tackle. But as soon as I go
heavier than that, casting gear gets the nod. It's more comfortable, and
in sizes suitable for handling heavy line, much lighter.

Also, in pure mechanical engineering terms, a casting reel is a more
elegant and efficient machine for retrieving the line. Spinning gear
takes the line around an awkward right angle turn on the retrieve, and
that turn puts pressure at a right angle to the bearing on which the
rotor rotates, trying to cock the rotor whenever it is pulling weight
around that awful corner. Further, the spinning reel asks you to set
into motion a large rotor and bail, instead of a comparatively small
spool to wind the line. The rotor/roller/bail assembly is an out of
balance, rotating mass -- something they taught us to avoid when I
studied mechanical design. If it wasn't such a good design for a reel's
other function (paying out line) it would be tough to even justify the
existence of a spinning reel. But because it does such a good job with
that half of its responsibilities -- particularly when light line and
light weights are involved -- I find it to be worth putting up with its
poor design for the other half of its job, but only in specific
circumstances.

I really don't care what kind of tackle you or anyone else prefers. I
know lots of anglers who don't have the ambition, dexterity or resolve
to learn to use a bait casting reel with any amount of confidence and
grace. I happily share my boat with several 'spinning gear only'
anglers. I'd much rather they concentrate on the important parts of
fishing -- finding fish and forcing them or tricking them into biting
something artificial -- than on trying to master tackle that they're
uncomfortable with for no reason other than that's what some pro uses.
As long as they're not doing something dumb like trying to fish in heavy
cover with 6 or 8 pound test because that's all that really fishes well
on their light spinning gear, more power to them. And to you.

RichZ wrote:
duty-honor-country wrote:
RichZ wrote:

duty-honor-country wrote:

question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
with ANY bait casting reel,

You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.


you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's
what's even sadder.



??? I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I didn't comment on your
preference for spinning tackle, just your insistence that backlashes and
tangles are unavoidable and 'incessant' with casting tackle -- a
position that just isn't accurate. You seem to think it is, which
reflects only on your your abilities with the tackle, not on the design
of the tackle itself.

There is no denying that casting tackle requires a more skilled and
practiced hand to cast. The lighter the weight being cast, the broader
the gap in how much skill is needed to do it with casting tackle rather
than spinning gear. You apparently haven't developed that skill, and
are blaming the tackle. Then again, you might be trying to learn with a
piece of junk, and it really IS the tackle.

I prefer spinning tackle for any application in which I use 6 lb test or
lower. Since drop shotting is among my favorite techniques, and I pretty
much wrote the book (or at least the article in In-Fisherman magazine
years ago) on light tackle jig & worm fishing, most days I use spinning
gear as much as, or more than casting tackle. But as soon as I go
heavier than that, casting gear gets the nod. It's more comfortable, and
in sizes suitable for handling heavy line, much lighter.

Also, in pure mechanical engineering terms, a casting reel is a more
elegant and efficient machine for retrieving the line. Spinning gear
takes the line around an awkward right angle turn on the retrieve, and
that turn puts pressure at a right angle to the bearing on which the
rotor rotates, trying to cock the rotor whenever it is pulling weight
around that awful corner. Further, the spinning reel asks you to set
into motion a large rotor and bail, instead of a comparatively small
spool to wind the line. The rotor/roller/bail assembly is an out of
balance, rotating mass -- something they taught us to avoid when I
studied mechanical design. If it wasn't such a good design for a reel's
other function (paying out line) it would be tough to even justify the
existence of a spinning reel. But because it does such a good job with
that half of its responsibilities -- particularly when light line and
light weights are involved -- I find it to be worth putting up with its
poor design for the other half of its job, but only in specific
circumstances.

I really don't care what kind of tackle you or anyone else prefers. I
know lots of anglers who don't have the ambition, dexterity or resolve
to learn to use a bait casting reel with any amount of confidence and
grace. I happily share my boat with several 'spinning gear only'
anglers. I'd much rather they concentrate on the important parts of
fishing -- finding fish and forcing them or tricking them into biting
something artificial -- than on trying to master tackle that they're
uncomfortable with for no reason other than that's what some pro uses.
As long as they're not doing something dumb like trying to fish in heavy
cover with 6 or 8 pound test because that's all that really fishes well
on their light spinning gear, more power to them. And to you.


whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
used with 14-15 pound test. Those bass pros aren't using 8 pound test
on baitcasters, that's for sure- it would be a recipe for disaster.

yes, a casting reel is more elegant- for cranking the line in- but not
for casting- and only good IF you use thick line ! that inherently
means shorter casts- because heavier line going out, has more
resistance in the rod eyes.

bass pros use 14-17 lb. test line- but the bass they are catching are
always somewhat smaller than that in weight. So what we have is,
chunking up line size used to drag through weeds and obstacles, and
keep the reel from backlashing on casts- not to drag in 15 lb. fish.

again- if you used the same rod, weight, and line- only difference
being the reel type, spinning vs. baitcasting- the spinning reel is
inherently going to cast further. It doesn't have a spool that's
turning, creating friction, to cast out. And it doesn't have a thumb
on it either, slowing it down, to prevent a backlash.

otherwise, try casting with no thumb control with a baitcaster. BANG-
backlash city. The fisherman HAS TO slow the spool down with his
thumb, or it backlashes- that in itself shortens the cast. It's either
slow it down with your thumb, or tighten up the spool clutch tension.
I've found a tighter clutch tension allows me to keep my thumb off the
spool until the end of the cast. Loosening it up to get distance, it
quickly over-runs without constant thumb braking. I'd rather let the
reel clutch do the braking, and my thumb just end the cast and drop the
bait in the water.

In article .com,
says...


whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
used with 14-15 pound test. Those bass pros aren't using 8 pound test
on baitcasters, that's for sure- it would be a recipe for disaster.

yes, a casting reel is more elegant- for cranking the line in- but not
for casting- and only good IF you use thick line ! that inherently
means shorter casts- because heavier line going out, has more
resistance in the rod eyes.

bass pros use 14-17 lb. test line- but the bass they are catching are
always somewhat smaller than that in weight. So what we have is,
chunking up line size used to drag through weeds and obstacles, and
keep the reel from backlashing on casts- not to drag in 15 lb. fish.

again- if you used the same rod, weight, and line- only difference
being the reel type, spinning vs. baitcasting- the spinning reel is
inherently going to cast further. It doesn't have a spool that's
turning, creating friction, to cast out. And it doesn't have a thumb
on it either, slowing it down, to prevent a backlash.

otherwise, try casting with no thumb control with a baitcaster. BANG-
backlash city. The fisherman HAS TO slow the spool down with his
thumb, or it backlashes- that in itself shortens the cast. It's either
slow it down with your thumb, or tighten up the spool clutch tension.
I've found a tighter clutch tension allows me to keep my thumb off the
spool until the end of the cast. Loosening it up to get distance, it
quickly over-runs without constant thumb braking. I'd rather let the
reel clutch do the braking, and my thumb just end the cast and drop the
bait in the water.



I use 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, about the same diameter as normal 8 lb.
mono, on a Shimano Calcutta 150A(a round reel of appropriate size for
that line), with a 6'6" St Croix medium fast action rod and haven't had
a real birds nest type backlash for at least 2 or 3 years I.e. many
thousands of casts. About the worst I get is a few loose coils of line
around the spool at the very end of the cast, easily fixed by pulling
off a foot or two of line. I throw everything from 1/4 oz. Spinnerbaits
for rock bass to much heavier Rattletraps, to much larger in-line
spinners and even Cleo spoons. When a 40"+ Northern dives under the boat
or a spring Coho takes off, having a 'winch' sure comes in handy. The
Calcutta is a no-nonsense reel without the hype, for example what's the
point of an aluminum frame if the side plates or bearing keepers are
plastic? I avoid backlashes by what some would call abuse - I turn the
crank to engage the reel just as the lure hits the water! This technique
turned my old Citica to junk after only a few years, but the Calcutta's
seem to be able to do this just fine - mine's 6 years old and will
probably go 6 more. True it won't cast an 1/8 oz. Rapalla or jig, but
it's not designed to. The Citica will be replaced by Calcutta 200B.

I must be a Klutz, because I have a lot more problems with spinning gear
(a 7' Shimano Compre with a Symetre reel), usually in the form of a
dozen or more coils of line all coming off at once and trying to go
through the first rod guide together. The abrupt halt sometimes snaps
the line, the lure keeps on going, the coils end up on the floor of the
boat and unless I have a spare spool that rig is done for the day. This
usually happens if I try to cast just a bit farther to that special spot
where morning bass are hitting on the surface right about sun-up, or
with a heavier lure than the outfit is designed for.

Regarding distance, it depends. With a lot of lures like smaller spinner
baits, many plastics, or floating Rapallas, the limiting factors are
weight, the rod, and especially wind resistance - it's like a major
league pitcher throwing a wiffle ball, it's only going to go so far and
so fast. A Rattletrap or Cleo spoon may go a few feet farther on the
spinning rig, but with either rig and those lures really long casts
aren't really an issue.

For shore fishing I'd probably choose spinning gear, but from a boat I
use baitcasters a whole lot more than spinning, but I wouldn't swear off
one or the other. I especially like the balance and feel of spinning
gear for vertical jigging.

IMO tournament anglers use heavier gear to avoid loosing fish and to get
them into the boat fast. They wouldn't be using baitcasters if they
spent all their time dealing with backlashes. I fish multi-species for
fun at least twice a week, weather permitting and baitcasters work just
fine with lighter lines down to 8 lb. provided the reel is appropriately
sized. IMO, narrow spools, such as the Shimano 100 series reels are much
better for this than the wider spool 200 series low profile reels.

Al J wrote:
In article .com,
says...


whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
used with 14-15 pound test. Those bass pros aren't using 8 pound test
on baitcasters, that's for sure- it would be a recipe for disaster.

yes, a casting reel is more elegant- for cranking the line in- but not
for casting- and only good IF you use thick line ! that inherently
means shorter casts- because heavier line going out, has more
resistance in the rod eyes.

bass pros use 14-17 lb. test line- but the bass they are catching are
always somewhat smaller than that in weight. So what we have is,
chunking up line size used to drag through weeds and obstacles, and
keep the reel from backlashing on casts- not to drag in 15 lb. fish.

again- if you used the same rod, weight, and line- only difference
being the reel type, spinning vs. baitcasting- the spinning reel is
inherently going to cast further. It doesn't have a spool that's
turning, creating friction, to cast out. And it doesn't have a thumb
on it either, slowing it down, to prevent a backlash.

otherwise, try casting with no thumb control with a baitcaster. BANG-
backlash city. The fisherman HAS TO slow the spool down with his
thumb, or it backlashes- that in itself shortens the cast. It's either
slow it down with your thumb, or tighten up the spool clutch tension.
I've found a tighter clutch tension allows me to keep my thumb off the
spool until the end of the cast. Loosening it up to get distance, it
quickly over-runs without constant thumb braking. I'd rather let the
reel clutch do the braking, and my thumb just end the cast and drop the
bait in the water.



I use 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, about the same diameter as normal 8 lb.
mono, on a Shimano Calcutta 150A(a round reel of appropriate size for
that line), with a 6'6" St Croix medium fast action rod and haven't had
a real birds nest type backlash for at least 2 or 3 years I.e. many
thousands of casts. About the worst I get is a few loose coils of line
around the spool at the very end of the cast, easily fixed by pulling
off a foot or two of line. I throw everything from 1/4 oz. Spinnerbaits
for rock bass to much heavier Rattletraps, to much larger in-line
spinners and even Cleo spoons. When a 40"+ Northern dives under the boat
or a spring Coho takes off, having a 'winch' sure comes in handy. The
Calcutta is a no-nonsense reel without the hype, for example what's the
point of an aluminum frame if the side plates or bearing keepers are
plastic? I avoid backlashes by what some would call abuse - I turn the
crank to engage the reel just as the lure hits the water! This technique
turned my old Citica to junk after only a few years, but the Calcutta's
seem to be able to do this just fine - mine's 6 years old and will
probably go 6 more. True it won't cast an 1/8 oz. Rapalla or jig, but
it's not designed to. The Citica will be replaced by Calcutta 200B.

I must be a Klutz, because I have a lot more problems with spinning gear
(a 7' Shimano Compre with a Symetre reel), usually in the form of a
dozen or more coils of line all coming off at once and trying to go
through the first rod guide together. The abrupt halt sometimes snaps
the line, the lure keeps on going, the coils end up on the floor of the
boat and unless I have a spare spool that rig is done for the day. This
usually happens if I try to cast just a bit farther to that special spot
where morning bass are hitting on the surface right about sun-up, or
with a heavier lure than the outfit is designed for.

Regarding distance, it depends. With a lot of lures like smaller spinner
baits, many plastics, or floating Rapallas, the limiting factors are
weight, the rod, and especially wind resistance - it's like a major
league pitcher throwing a wiffle ball, it's only going to go so far and
so fast. A Rattletrap or Cleo spoon may go a few feet farther on the
spinning rig, but with either rig and those lures really long casts
aren't really an issue.

For shore fishing I'd probably choose spinning gear, but from a boat I
use baitcasters a whole lot more than spinning, but I wouldn't swear off
one or the other. I especially like the balance and feel of spinning
gear for vertical jigging.

IMO tournament anglers use heavier gear to avoid loosing fish and to get
them into the boat fast. They wouldn't be using baitcasters if they
spent all their time dealing with backlashes. I fish multi-species for
fun at least twice a week, weather permitting and baitcasters work just
fine with lighter lines down to 8 lb. provided the reel is appropriately
sized. IMO, narrow spools, such as the Shimano 100 series reels are much
better for this than the wider spool 200 series low profile reels.

great post- thanks for the info- the problem I had with line 12 lb. and
less size, it would get behind the spool on the sides on the
baitcasting reel- there's just enough space there for a piece of link
to jam its way through- with the 15 lb. test that can't happen, as the
line is physically too large to get stuck back there. Since I moved
to 15 lb. test and tightened the spool tension- I'm having much fewer
backlashes. I just weighed the bottom fishing weight I'm using, it's
3/4 oz.

One thing I have noticed is, the spool tension has to be quite a bit
tighter than the typical "slowly allows the lure to drop to the floor"
setting. At that setting, it's backlash city. I can avoid backlash at
looser spool settings, but then I can't put much energy into the cast
for distance, otherwise it will backlash. With the tighter spool
setting, I can cast it harder and get more distance, and not get
backlashes. Making progress but still not getting the accuracy and
distance of my spinning gear.

But it will crank in an old car if I snag one !

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
oups.com...
problem I had with line 12 lb. and
less size, it would get behind the spool on the sides on the
baitcasting reel- there's just enough space there for a piece of link
to jam its way through- with the 15 lb. test that can't happen, as the
line is physically too large to get stuck back there.

That's a reel problem, not a line problem. Get a better reel, or one
designed to use with smaller diameter line.

"duty-honor-country" wrote in message
oups.com...

whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
used with 14-15 pound test.

This from an expert who's been using one for about a week.

duty-honor-country wrote:


whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !!

You have no business telling me or anyone else what is or isn't possible
with tackle that you don't use and haven't bothered to master. I used 8
on casting tackle all through the spring for throwing jerkbaits. I use
10 on casting tackle for virtually all light jigging. Hell, I won a
Ranger in a tourney more than 20 years ago and every single fish I
caught in that tourney was caught on 10 pound test line on a casting
rod, throwing a 1/4 oz jig & pig.

You really need to refrain from spouting off about something you know
nothing whatsoever about.