Tuna salad anyone? Death of a Tuna and Deathof a Whale

David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "pearl"

snip

Total bullsh!t. Denying the fact that hominids are omnivorous.

It was the extraction of bone marrow that helped early hominids evolve.

I don't care if anyone is vegetarian or vegan. It do care when
extremists want everyone to
follow their POV. This is the same as religious extremism.



You can't reason with a vegetarian, they have lost the protein in their
diet, that allows their brains to function properly.
Prime example, they complain about people killing animals, yet they can
no longer, see animals killing animals, animals even torturing other
animals, just watch a house cat play with a mouse, or killer whales
tossing "injured" baby seals in the air for hours, before finally eating
them. Animals kill more animals, than humans do. It's the way nature
works, and we humans are part of nature.

I hunt, and I fish, I can't stand to see a creature suffer needlessly, I
dispatch them as quickly as possible. That deer I kill, I saved another
2 deer from starving to death, slowly, during the winter, we must control
their numbers, or starvation , and disease will make them suffer
horribly. There is documented evidence of this, when Pennsylvania
banned deer hunting for ten years, they lost tens of thousands of deer
to starvation and disease each year, tell me these deer did not suffer,
needlessly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your vegetarians can not see these facts any longer, they loose that
part or reasoning in their brains,, nothing we meat eaters can do to
change their thinking, until they have a couple of hamburgers. They
suffer from a chemical imbalance of the brain, and you can't fix it with
the antidepressants most of them take. It takes Meat, to solve that
problem. How do I know that,, well my daughter went though that phase a
few years back, she decided to stop eating meat, within 6 months she was
condemning me for eating meat, and hunting, and fishing. One day my wife
started slipping a bit of bacon fat into her veggies, a week later, she
started finely grinding a little meat into them, in a month she was
normal again, and started hunting, and fishing again, and eating meat
daily. She now is a normal wife, and mother, with her own son, and feeds
him meat. There is hope for these veg'es, They can be turned back to
the force, from the dark side, all someone has to do is slip a little
hidden meat into their diet, then those neurons that have not been fed,
start working again, next thing you know, they will be out with a
shotgun, duck hunting :-)


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:07:52 -0600, Rodney Long
wrote:

David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "pearl"

snip

Total bullsh!t. Denying the fact that hominids are omnivorous.

It was the extraction of bone marrow that helped early hominids evolve.

I don't care if anyone is vegetarian or vegan. It do care when
extremists want everyone to
follow their POV. This is the same as religious extremism.



You can't reason with a vegetarian, they have lost the protein in their
diet, that allows their brains to function properly.

What's your excuse then?

"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "pearl"

snip

Total bullsh!t. Denying the fact that hominids are omnivorous.

It was the extraction of bone marrow that helped early hominids evolve.

I don't care if anyone is vegetarian or vegan. It do care when
extremists want everyone to
follow their POV. This is the same as religious extremism.



You can't reason with a vegetarian, they have lost the protein in their
diet, that allows their brains to function properly.

Learning-resistant, I see. I won't repeat what I've already posted.

Prime example, they complain about people killing animals, yet they can
no longer, see animals killing animals, animals even torturing other
animals, just watch a house cat play with a mouse, or killer whales
tossing "injured" baby seals in the air for hours, before finally eating
them. Animals kill more animals, than humans do. It's the way nature
works,

Funny, I just wrote this on another thread:

---------

"Geoff" wrote in message ...

OK we appreciate mans inhumanity to man has nothing to do with God.
What about the cruelty of nature. Animals, wildlife eating each other
alive etc?

Any explanations in the Bible?

How can we accept that nature is just a nothing in itself?


Why is nature so cruel?

Keen to hear your views. TIA.

I'll take a stab at it.

According to Genesis, all creatures were created vegetarian,
and in Isaiah we read that the lion will lay next to the lamb,
etc.

Is the caterpiller anaesthetized? That is certainly possible.
Does an animal that is terrified (or in shock?) in the face
of imminent death, feel the extent or actual pain of usually
very swift and effective deadly attacks by true predators?

What would you do as Creator, if you have a planet with
diverse species that benefited from predation - for the prey,
the predators, and ecosystem as a whole -- that, or a planet
where everything becomes overrun? Can it work differently?

----

and we humans are part of nature.

We humans are not predators.

I hunt, and I fish, I can't stand to see a creature suffer needlessly,

As you don't NEED to eat meat - your *every* act of violence
against an animal *IS* needless, unless a life-or-death situation.

2 deer from starving to death, slowly, during the winter, we must control
their numbers, or starvation , and disease will make them suffer
horribly. There is documented evidence of this, when Pennsylvania
banned deer hunting for ten years, they lost tens of thousands of deer
to starvation and disease each year, tell me these deer did not suffer,
needlessly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT happened to their natural predators, hmmm? Killed to
protect your 'livestock' no doubt. .. then use deer's burgeoning
population to justify killing them! ..You know not what you do..

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:33:51 -0000, "pearl"
wrote:

"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "pearl"

snip

Total bullsh!t. Denying the fact that hominids are omnivorous.

It was the extraction of bone marrow that helped early hominids evolve.

I don't care if anyone is vegetarian or vegan. It do care when
extremists want everyone to
follow their POV. This is the same as religious extremism.



You can't reason with a vegetarian, they have lost the protein in their
diet, that allows their brains to function properly.

Learning-resistant, I see. I won't repeat what I've already posted.

Prime example, they complain about people killing animals, yet they can
no longer, see animals killing animals, animals even torturing other
animals, just watch a house cat play with a mouse, or killer whales
tossing "injured" baby seals in the air for hours, before finally eating
them. Animals kill more animals, than humans do. It's the way nature
works,

Funny, I just wrote this on another thread:

LOL.


"Geoff" wrote in message ...

OK we appreciate mans inhumanity to man has nothing to do with God.
What about the cruelty of nature. Animals, wildlife eating each other
alive etc?

Any explanations in the Bible?

How can we accept that nature is just a nothing in itself?


Why is nature so cruel?

Keen to hear your views. TIA.

I'll take a stab at it.

According to Genesis, all creatures were created vegetarian,
and in Isaiah we read that the lion will lay next to the lamb,
etc.

Is the caterpiller anaesthetized? That is certainly possible.
Does an animal that is terrified (or in shock?) in the face
of imminent death, feel the extent or actual pain of usually
very swift and effective deadly attacks by true predators?

What would you do as Creator, if you have a planet with
diverse species that benefited from predation - for the prey,
the predators, and ecosystem as a whole -- that, or a planet
where everything becomes overrun? Can it work differently?

----

and we humans are part of nature.

We humans are not predators.

I hunt, and I fish, I can't stand to see a creature suffer needlessly,

As you don't NEED to eat meat - your *every* act of violence
against an animal *IS* needless, unless a life-or-death situation.

2 deer from starving to death, slowly, during the winter, we must control
their numbers, or starvation , and disease will make them suffer
horribly. There is documented evidence of this, when Pennsylvania
banned deer hunting for ten years, they lost tens of thousands of deer
to starvation and disease each year, tell me these deer did not suffer,
needlessly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT happened to their natural predators, hmmm? Killed to
protect your 'livestock' no doubt. .. then use deer's burgeoning
population to justify killing them! ..You know not what you do..

Geoff wrote:


and we humans are part of nature.
We humans are not predators.

I see your brain is not functioning

"Humans" have always been predators, every evidence of modern man has
shown them to be predators "ALL" OF RECORDED HISTORY SHOWS HIM TO BE
ONE, AT THE LEAST, THAT IS 10,000 YEARS OF MAN'S PREDATION. YOU HAVE TO
BE BRAIN DEAD, NOT TO ACCEPT THAT.

You "personally" may not be a predator, not until your starving to
death, then you will become one.

You or anyone else "claiming" man is not a predator, with all the
evidence to "PROVE" he has always been one, since he has become "man".
Shows that your brain does not function in reality. Your Veg'ee cult is
less than 50 years old . except for some weird "religious" nuts that
believe in reincarnation, they are afraid they will eat their grand dad
if they eat meat, or they will come back as a cat if they ever eat meat,
and be stuck on Earth forever as a meat eater, those nuts have been
around for a long time

Will you accept that "some" humans are predators ?

How about 90 + % of the world's population eat meat ? well at least
when they get the chance, they will, and do.

I hunt, and I fish, I can't stand to see a creature suffer needlessly,
As you don't NEED to eat meat

You don't "need" to use electricity, or oil, cars, a house, roads,
shopping centers, airports, and cities, these very things have destroyed
more wild animals, than hunting animals. the loss of their habitat (your
grocery stores and farms that raise your veggies) have killed, and keep
killing more animals than me, and others trying to now control their
populations due to "YOUR" life style !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


- your *every* act of violence
against an animal *IS* needless, unless a life-or-death situation.

You driving to work on a road is needless.

2 deer from starving to death, slowly, during the winter, we must control
their numbers, or starvation , and disease will make them suffer
horribly. There is documented evidence of this, when Pennsylvania
banned deer hunting for ten years, they lost tens of thousands of deer
to starvation and disease each year, tell me these deer did not suffer,
needlessly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHAT happened to their natural predators, hmmm?
Killed to
protect your 'livestock' no doubt.

Some of the natural deer predators were indeed killed out, but one
"natural" predator remains,,, "man"


... then use deer's burgeoning
population to justify killing them! ..You know not what you do..

In my state, we now have more deer, than was here in 1490.

Please give us another solution, you will be the first,, oh wait, you
want to bring back the wolves, and the cougars, and what will you say
when your grand child gets killed by one, that the cougar had the right
to kill your grand child ?

Ever watch a wolf kill a deer, it sure is not fast, they first cripple
the deer, by bitting though the tendons of the legs, then they start
feeding from the stomach cavity while the deer is still alive, same for
coyotes on a deer kill . My bullet is instant.

You can't grasp these "facts"

Your brain does not function correctly, due to the lack of animal
protein in your diet.


--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
Geoff wrote:


and we humans are part of nature.
We humans are not predators.

I see your brain is not functioning

We see from your er BS rant that you have totally lost it. Tsk tsk.

snip

How about 90 + % of the world's population eat meat ? well at least
when they get the chance, they will, and do.

'According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) "Most of
the world's population today subsists on vegetarian or near-vegetarian
diets for reasons that are economic, philosophical, religious, cultural,
or ecological."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

Try actually doing a bit of research before you hit 'Send', Rodney?
when pigs fly

pearl wrote:


'According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) "Most of
the world's population today subsists on vegetarian or near-vegetarian


"""""near-vegetarian""""""" means they have nothing against the eating
of meat, it means they can't "afford" meat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It means
they will eat it, when they can afford it it, and many of these people
are starving to death on a daily bases .

What is "most" what is the percentage, and why was "near vegetarians"
in that group ?,, because you, and the Hindu's are it, for total
vegetarians, the numbers are TOO LOW FOR YOU to spout your Bull **** !
about man not being a predator. At least the Hindu's don't eat meat for
a good reason to them,, they don't want to eat Grand Dad :-)


diets for reasons that are economic, philosophical, religious, cultural,
or ecological."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

I see the number one reason is "economic", just like I already knew.
what percentage is because of that ?

Try actually doing a bit of research before you hit 'Send', Rodney?
when pigs fly

Actually it's not worth my time, I have many years actually spent in
nature, all of this research today is funded by left wing tree huggers
to left wing tree huggers, who try to "prove" their beliefs, not those
who look for truth. They twist the numbers,, like adding starving
people, who would "kill" for a piece of meat, under the heading of

"vegetarian" so they can claim "most" people, so people like you can
imply they are that way because of choice, or in your case, genetics,
when in fact these people are starving to death, at the least 80% or
more of their income goes just to buy food.

Us "meat eaters" and our scientist don't "waste" funds, or time, looking
to prove this one way or another. We don't give a rat's butt, if a group
of people don't want, to want meat, what we care about is that bunch
trying to legislate, or brain wash our kids with their TRIPE. Why do you
care 90% of the world eats meat when they get a chance ? It's none of
your business what I do, unless it "hurts" your "rights", animals have
no rights, it's the strongest, and smartest that survive , it's the way
this world rotates, it has for millions of years, man is just a late
comer , we can not "change" all of nature. What makes man a murder to
"some" when he kills animals, yet the other predators are not considered
murders for doing the same thing ?

What it is, is some people can/could no longer survive in nature , SO
they don't want to feel inferior, to those who can, so they "invent"
reasons for their lack of ability, now a desired trait that brought
their ancestors to this place in time, is considered WRONG, this makes
them feel like they are not missing anything, they now think they are
not inferior, but superior, they seek out others like themselves to
build up this lie . Then to take this lie further, they go out and try
to change history to what they believe. Trying to built themselves up in
their own mind. They start forming radical groups like PETA (a
terrorists organization) They start trying to make animals have more
rights than man, that a man's life is not worth more than any animals
right, that it's OK to let a child die, if killing an animal can save
the child, the animal has more, or equal rights. That' it's better to
have ten's of thousands of humans die needlessly, than kill ten animals
to find a cure. These people claim to be compassionate, yet they will
instantly let "people" suffer, and die . They only have compassion for
animals, not even their own children. much less for human kind. These
people are mentally ill, and should be institutionalized, force feeding
them only meat, for a couple of months, will cure them.

The lack of animal protein in these people's diets have warped their
minds. They have lost their ability to survive, if we, as the human
race, follow them, we will all be gone in a thousand years. Which is
what PETA wants, they want animals, to take the Earth back.







--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:
---
"Rodney Long" wrote

How about 90 + % of the world's population eat meat ? well at least
when they get the chance, they will, and do.
---

'According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) "Most of
the world's population today subsists on vegetarian or near-vegetarian


"""""near-vegetarian""""""" means they have nothing against the eating
of meat, it means they can't "afford" meat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It means they will eat it, when they can afford it it,

Calm down. In some cases, but certainly not all. It continues:

diets for reasons that are economic, philosophical, religious, cultural,
or ecological."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

and many of these people are starving to death on a daily bases .

Oops...

'C: Third World Poverty Caused by the Animal Exploitation Industry.

The Animal exploitation industries have boosted third world poverty
in a number of ways:-

C.a) The Expropriation of Land.

A colossal part of the Earth's land surface has been devoted to pasture,
"A quarter of the earth's landmass is used as pasture for cattle and other
livestock .."55

['About 29 percent of the world's land surface is used for livestock
production, either by permanent pasture for grazing or croplands for
animal fodder and feed.
www.fao.org/ag/magazine/0511sp1.htm

'It is estimated that 73 percent of the world's grazing land has so
deteriorated that it has lost at least 25 percent of its animal carrying
capacity [3].
UNEP, Global Environment Outlook 2000, Earthscan, 1999. ]

Some of this land has been acquired through expropriation.
This is as true in the third world today as it was centuries ago in the
over-industrialized nations. Large numbers of poor people have been
imprisoned, made homeless, killed, or have starved as a result of big
landowners expropriating land for pasture. The same sort of
expropriation has occurred, although not on the same scale, to provide
grains for livestock Animals in the over-industrialized world. As has
been pointed out above 14% of the land in third world countries is being
used for cash crops although it is not known what proportion of this
land is being used to grow grains for the Animal exploitation industry.

C.b) The Expropriation of Food.

Large areas of pastureland in the disintegrating/industrializing countries
are used for livestock Animals which are exported to the
over-industrialized world. Huge numbers of people in these countries
go hungry even though they are surrounded by livestock Animals,
"Birds Eye Walls import 30,000 tonnes of beef from Brazil every year."
Although meat exports from third world countries continue to grow,
they are declining relative to meat exports from the over-industrialied
nations.

The same is also true as regards the crops which provide feed for
livestock Animals. Huge numbers of people are going hungry even
though third world countries are producing vast quantities of grains
which are exported to feed livestock in the over-industrialized nations,
"Although soybeans are consumed directly as tofu and soy sauce in
many countries, food use accounts for a small fraction of the world
harvest. Most of the world's soybeans are grown primarily for the
protein meal that is widely used in pork and poultry rations. Argentina
and Brazil .. crush most of their beans and export them largely as meal,
retaining much of the oil for domestic consumption."

The over-industrialized world cannot grow enough feed for its livestock
and have to import huge quantities of fodder from third world countries,
"Because of the large amounts of grain required to produce beef, the
geographic location of cattle herds can be misleading. Most industrial
countries do not have sufficient agricultural land to support their meat
consumption. Beef production is particularly land-intensive, because
one calorie of meat production requires 3 calories of grain inputs for
pork and 10 calories for beef. Land requirements can be up to 50 times
higher than for protein production from grain. As a result, a great deal
of the feed consumed in industrialized countries is not produced on
the home farm, but purchased from developing countries. For example,
Western Europe imports more than 40%, or 21 million tons per year, of
its feed grains from the Third World.";"Feeding the meat-eating (world)
class takes nearly 40% of the world's grain, grown on close to one-fifth
of the world's cropland."; "There has been a fundamental shift in world
agriculture this century from food grains to feed grains, and cattle now
compete with people for food. A third of the world's fish catch and
more than a third of the world's total grain output is fed to livestock."61
Huge numbers of third world peoples are starving because the crops
grown in their country are exported to fatten Animals in the
over-industrialized nations, "More people are hungry now than ever
before. Many states where hunger is prevalent are net exporters of food."
Even during times of famine, grains continue to be exported from third
world countries to the over-industrialized world, "In addition, about
two-thirds of the total domestic grain crop goes to feed-lots. The
agribusiness production of grains for foreign exchange-earning exports
to the industrialized region is one among several factors in the
displacement of the rural poor in the Third world onto marginal,
ecologically sensitive land. The magnitude of the food value involved
in this trade is significant: the 500 million people suffering starvation
could find relief from this condition if they had the cash to buy the
grains exported to industrial country feedlots. In that sense, the present
level of meat consumption in the wealthy industrialized countries is
directly related to starvation in the poor countries of the world."

C.c) The Expropriation of Resources.

Third world elites devote huge quantities of resources, from water,
minerals, and fossil fuels to the Animal exploitation industry when
these resources could be used to alleviate third world poverty,
"While it takes, on average, 25 gallons of water (113 litres) to produce
a pound of wheat in modern Western farming systems, it requires an
astounding 2,500 gallons (11,250 litres) of water to produce a pound
of meat."

C.d) Third world Elites Exploiting their own People for the sake of Meat.

Animals are a major export earner in many third world countries ..
"African export earnings from this source (live animals, meat, hides and
skins) exceed those from tobacco, tea or bauxite." Just as was the case
with exports of cash crops and raw materials for the car industries, the
wealth generated by Animal exports is expropriated by third world elites.
Third world elites, like consumers in the over-industrialized nations, are
meat eaters, and some of their countries' export earnings are used to
sustain a carnivorous diet. Third world elites would rather spend money
on buying meat for their own consumption rather than alleviating poverty.
They are therefore responsible for some of the poverty caused by the
Animal exploitation industry.

C.e) Rich in Meat, Poor in Wealth.

There is a general rule about the Animal exploitation industry in third
world countries and this is that the greater the wealth generated by
Animal exports the greater the scale of poverty. For example .. "meat
exporting countries are among Africa's poorest and most drought
stricken: Chad, Sudan, Niger, Somalia, Mali, Botswana and Namibia."
There are a number of reasons for this:- Firstly, because third world
countries' export earnings are confiscated by third world elites rather
than disbursed throughout the population;

Secondly, the Animal exploitation industry is such a land extensive
enterprise that little land left for the development of local agriculture or
other industries;

Thirdly, the Animal exploitation industry uses only a small workforce,
thereby further limiting the spread of wealth throughout the population;
and,

Finally, the Animal exploitation industry is a capital intensive industry
which means that little capital is left for other industries.

As a consequence, "No other agro-export has contributed less to the
welfare of the Guatemalan population than beef. Cattle ranching has
displaced hundreds of small farmers and employed very few workers.
Moreover, Guatemala was no exception to the process common
throughout central America by which countries of the region rapidly
increased beef exports to the united states to meet the demands of fast
food chains like MacDonalds, while per capita domestic consumption
declined."
....
C.g) The Animal Exploitation Industry exacerbates Global Warming which
will Increase Third World Poverty.

The Animal exploitation industry is the biggest contributor to global warming.
It boosts global warming through Animal flatulence, the consumption of fossil
fuels to help run the Animal exploitation industries, and through the destruction
of the Earth's Phytosynthetic capacity e.g. the destruction of Forests. The
ecological devastation caused by the Animal exploitation industry is enormous:-

Firstly, a quarter of the Earth's land surface is now used for pasture and much
of this has been created by razing Forests, "In Mexico alone, 37 million acres
of forest have been destroyed since 1987 to provide grazing land for cattle.";

Secondly, some of the land used to provide fodder for livestock has also been
created by razing Forests; and,

Thirdly, huge numbers of people who have been chucked off their land by
Animal exploiters invade the Forests in order to grow crops. They use primitive
slash/burn techniques which entails setting fire to the Forests to provide fertiliser
ash for crops. Due to the increasing numbers of slash/burn farmers the Forests
no longer have the time to recover.

Most of the damage resulting from the Animal exploitation industry is caused
by the over-industrialized countries but the third world also contributes to the
damage. Once again it is likely that third world countries not only benefit least
from the Animal exploitation industry, but will suffer the most from the climatic
disasters caused by this industry.

C.h) Conclusions.

There are a number of conclusions to be drawn from this sketch of the poverty
caused by the Animal exploitation industry:-

Firstly, the Animal exploitation industry causes more poverty in third world
countries than any other industry. It is by far and away the biggest cause of
third world poverty.

Secondly, the Animal exploitation industry causes more poverty in third world
countries than all the cash crop industries combined - e.g. coffee/tea.

Thirdly, third world poverty will never be abolished until some of the land
currently being used by the Animal exploitation industry is distributed to the
poor in order to abolish global poverty.

Fourthly, most livestock Animals are consumed in the over-industrialized
world, "Most people in the world live on a substantially vegetarian diet.
Meat eating is a habit largely peculiar to the affluent West."; "Per capita meat
consumption is currently six times higher in the industrialized countries than
in the developing world (78kg/cap-yr compared to 14 kg/cap-yr). Moreover,
while industrial country per capita consumption has risen by another 20% in
the last 15 years, it has stagnated in the Third World."

Finally, it is impossible for everyone in third world countries to eat as much
meat as consumers in the over-industrialized nations. Despite the fact that
china now produces as much meat as america, it has a far larger population
than america and will never be able to produce the same level of per capita
meat consumption, "China and the United States now dominate world meat
production. Somewhat surprisingly, surging pork production in China in
recent years has made it the world's leading consumer of red meat. Its output
of red meat in 1992 totalled 31.6 million tons, compared with 18.6 million tons
in the United States. When poultry is included, total meat production in China
is nearly 37 million tons versus 31 million tons in the United States."72;
"The major producers of poultry in 1993 were the United States at 12.5 million
tons, China at 5.1mt, Brazil at 3.2mt, and France at 2 mt. Together, these four
countries accounted for over half of world poultry output."
....'
http://www.geocities.com/carbonomics...2/11sp12b.html

rant snipped

pearl wrote:

Is the caterpiller anaesthetized? That is certainly possible.
Does an animal that is terrified (or in shock?) in the face
of imminent death, feel the extent or actual pain of usually
very swift and effective deadly attacks by true predators?

I see you have spent little time actually in nature,, the attacks of
true predators rarely leads to a swift death for those being prayed on.

I have heard a rabbit scream for 10 min. while a coyote ran off with it
kicking in his mouth, to take it "alive and hurt" to it's pups to teach
them how to kill.

Some of the big cats can kill quickly, when attacking smaller game. I
recently watched a pride of lions kill a water buffalo on the nature
channel, it took 45 min , some of the pride started feeding before the
animal had even died.

You live in a delusional world,, you need a burger
--
Rodney Long,
Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread,
Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures,
Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot
http://www.ezknot.com

"Rodney Long" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:

Is the caterpiller anaesthetized? That is certainly possible.
Does an animal that is terrified (or in shock?) in the face
of imminent death, feel the extent or actual pain of usually
very swift and effective deadly attacks by true predators?

I see you have spent little time actually in nature,, the attacks of
true predators rarely leads to a swift death for those being prayed on.

I have heard a rabbit scream for 10 min. while a coyote ran off with it
kicking in his mouth, to take it "alive and hurt" to it's pups to teach
them how to kill.

I accept that there are exceptions to the general rule.

Some of the big cats can kill quickly, when attacking smaller game. I
recently watched a pride of lions kill a water buffalo on the nature
channel, it took 45 min , some of the pride started feeding before the
animal had even died.

Interesting.. you people are always on about post mortem reflexes..

Lions usually grasp the throat to crush the windpipe - a relatively
fast death by suffocation, once an animal is downed. 45 minutes to
get to that, perhaps, but unlikely feasting on a live kicking buffalo.