Tuna salad anyone? Death of a Tuna and Deathof a Whale

In article , Rodney Long wrote:
pearl wrote:
:-)



We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables,
fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease.
Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4
years

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Some study

7 men and 3 women

ROTFLMAO

You imagine that they were all exceptions to the rule somehow?

The jokes on you, clown.



Ok I eat meat, LOTS of meat, my cholesterol level is under 100, been
there forever.

What's your level ?

My 80 year old Dad was taken off of meat three years ago, trying to
lower his cholesterol, they also added walking, and a bunch of other
things, for him to change, his levels dropped from 310 to 270, they then
put him on drugs to lower it, it dropped to 250, still too damn high
according to your researchers

My wife works with a person who eats like you do, ZERO MEAT, been doing
it for 20 years, their cholesterol level is 290

Why is their level not lower than mine ?????????????????????

Where the hell is their cholesterol coming from ?????????

Are me, my dad, and this person exceptions to the rule ??????????????????

Show me a study where low levels of cholesterol have extended life, even
1 single day over those who have high levels. If they don't die from
heart disease, they may die from cancer, or diabetes, but they still die.

I say we need to outlaw process sugar, and flower, now those are the
killers of man, so is margarine, and shortening ) all made from your
"holy" vege's, How about French fries.

I have fairly low cholesterol. My dad had high cholestrol. Cholestrol is also
increased by improper heart function, arrhythmias. Heridity is the major cause of
vast level changes, but in my case I guess my mother offset that. Its
got to be said somewhere that high LDL increases chances for heart attact.
Atkins diest high meat can reduce the bad cholestrol. Many vegatables
act creating the chance of blod clots. Hoe about carrots. You better NOT eat
carrots and green leafy vegetables. For me a blanced protien, carb, fat, diet is
the best way to go, including excercise. For those with high LDL, I would want
to be on drugs. Diet has a minimum effect on changing levels.
My dad even though on cholestrol medication and blood thinners, still
had heart failure and total blockage of the lower extremidies.

"GregS" wrote in message ...
In article , Rodney Long wrote:
pearl wrote:
:-)



We assessed the effect of a diet high in leafy and green vegetables,
fruit, and nuts on serum lipid risk factors for cardiovascular disease.
Ten healthy volunteers (seven men and three women aged 33 +/- 4
years

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Some study

7 men and 3 women

ROTFLMAO

You imagine that they were all exceptions to the rule somehow?

The joke's on you, clown.



Ok I eat meat, LOTS of meat, my cholesterol level is under 100, been
there forever.

What's your level ?

My 80 year old Dad was taken off of meat three years ago, trying to
lower his cholesterol, they also added walking, and a bunch of other
things, for him to change, his levels dropped from 310 to 270, they then
put him on drugs to lower it, it dropped to 250, still too damn high
according to your researchers

My wife works with a person who eats like you do, ZERO MEAT, been doing
it for 20 years, their cholesterol level is 290

Why is their level not lower than mine ?????????????????????

Where the hell is their cholesterol coming from ?????????

Are me, my dad, and this person exceptions to the rule ??????????????????

Anecdotes are not *evidence*.

Show me a study where low levels of cholesterol have extended life, even
1 single day over those who have high levels.

Done. Read what you've snipped. Yes... *all* of it, from the beginning!

If they don't die from
heart disease, they may die from cancer, or diabetes, but they still die.

I say we need to outlaw process sugar, and flower, now those are the
killers of man, so is margarine, and shortening ) all made from your
"holy" vege's, How about French fries.

I have fairly low cholesterol. My dad had high cholestrol. Cholestrol is also
increased by improper heart function, arrhythmias. Heridity is the major cause of
vast level changes, but in my case I guess my mother offset that. Its
got to be said somewhere that high LDL increases chances for heart attact.
Atkins diest high meat can reduce the bad cholestrol. Many vegatables
act creating the chance of blod clots. Hoe about carrots. You better NOT eat
carrots and green leafy vegetables. For me a blanced protien, carb, fat, diet is
the best way to go, including excercise. For those with high LDL, I would want
to be on drugs. Diet has a minimum effect on changing levels.
My dad even though on cholestrol medication and blood thinners, still
had heart failure and total blockage of the lower extremidies.

'Atkins Distorted His Record on Cholesterol

Although ketogenic diets have caused a number of "serious
potentially-life-threatening complications,"[317] perhaps the
greatest danger of the Atkins Diet, according to the American
Medical Association, lies in the heart.

Atkins claimed a worsening of cholesterol levels typically only
occurs "when carbohydrates are a large part of the diet."[318]
We've known this to be false since 1929 when the Institute of
American Meatpackers paid to see what would happen if people
lived on an all-meat diet. The blood plasma of the unfortunate
subjects was so filled with fat it "showed a milkiness" and one
of the subjects' cholesterol shot up to 800![319]

In the head-to-head comparisons of the four popular weight-loss
diets, Ornish's vegetarian diet was the only one that showed a
significant decrease in LDL levels--the so-called "bad" cholesterol.
Even researchers paid by Atkins concede that high saturated fat
diets like Atkins' tend to increase LDL cholesterol.[321] These
researchers have to concede the truth since they publish their
work in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Dr. Atkins, though, died
without ever publishing a single paper in any scientific journal about
anything, and thus had more freedom to bend the truth.

"The truth," Atkins wrote, "is that every one of a score of studies
on [very low carb diets] showed a significant improvement in
cholesterol." He accused those who say otherwise of simply not
doing their homework. Any claim that cholesterol doesn't
significantly improve in "every one of scores of studies" is, he
wrote in the last edition, "one of the many examples of untruths
being perpetrated because the accusers don't bother to read the
scientific literature."[322] He then goes on to recommend no
less than 17 supplements for the "prevention of cholesterol
elevations" on his diet.[323]

But what about his claim that "every one of a score of studies
showed a significant improvement in cholesterol." When the
AMA and the American Heart Association question this "fact,"
is it just because they "don't bother to read the scientific
literature?" That statement of his, in the latest edition of his
book and in essence repeated to this day on the Atkins website,
[537], presents a clear opportunity to test the veracity of his claims.
And the actual truth is almost the exact opposite.

Unfortunately, Dr. Atkins didn't include citations to back up his
"score of studies" statement. In fact, when pressed for a list of
citations in general, Dr. Atkins told an interviewer that "It and the
papers I quoted were in a briefcase I lost some time ago."[324]
Researchers have located about a dozen studies, though, that
measured the effects of low carb diets on cholesterol levels. Did
they all "show a significant improvement in cholesterol?" No. In
fact, with only one exception, every single controlled study
showed just the opposite--LDL cholesterol either stagnated or
was elevated by a low carb diet, even in those that showed
weight loss.[325-338]

During active weight loss--any kind of weight loss (whether
from chemotherapy, cocaine use, tuberculosis or the Atkins
Diet)--cholesterol synthesis temporarily decreases[339] and
LDL cholesterol levels should go down.[340] Yet, all the
saturated animal fat in the Atkins Diet tends to instead push
levels up, and in most studies the bad cholesterol doesn't fall
as it should with weight loss. The saturated fat in effect
cancelled the benefit one would expect while losing weight
and cutting out trans fats.[522] And what happens when
people on the Atkins Diet stop losing weight? People can't
lose weight forever (Stephen King novels aside). The fear is
that their LDL cholesterol level might then shoot through the
roof.[341-342]

"There is no doubt that you lose weight initially," Dr Jim
Mann, an endocrinology specialist from the University of
Otago, New Zealand, told the 2003 meeting of the European
Society of Cardiology, "but there is a grave risk of a dramatic
rise in cholesterol levels during the maintenance phase [of the
Atkins Diet]. "When weight loss is maintained--or as often
happens, there is weight gain [on the Atkins Diet]," Mann
continued, "we have observed that a lot of people experience
a rise in cholesterol to levels greater than when they started
the diet."[1159]

Sometimes even during the active weight loss, however, LDL
cholesterol levels became elevated on the Atkins Diet. One
study of women, for example, showed that just two weeks on
the Atkins Diet significantly elevated average LDL levels over
15%.[343] In a trial of men on the Atkins Diet, even though
they lost an average of 17 pounds after 3 months, their LDL
cholesterol jumped almost 20%.

The May 2004 Annals of Internal Medicine study showed that
a third of Atkins dieters suffered a significant increase in LDL
cholesterol. The goal is to have a double digit LDL--an LDL
under 100 (mg/dl).[344] In the study, one person's LDL shot
from an unhealthy 184 to a positively frightening 283 (which
means their total cholesterol was probably somewhere over 350).
[345] With so many people on these diets, that could mean
Atkins is endangering the health of millions of Americans.[346]
LDL cholesterol is, after all, the single most important diet
related risk factor for heart disease,[527] the number one killer
in the United States for both men and women.[347]

In another clinical trial, despite statistically significant weight loss
reported in the Atkins group, every single cardiac risk factor
measured had worsened after a year on the Atkins Diet. The
investigator concludes "Those following high fat [Atkins[526]]
diets may have lost weight, but at the price of increased
cardiovascular risk factors, including increased LDL cholesterol,
increased triglycerides, increased total cholesterol, decreased
HDL cholesterol, increased total/HDL cholesterol ratios, and
increased homocysteine, Lp(a), and fibrinogen levels. These
increased risk factors not only increase the risk of heart disease,
but also the risk of strokes, peripheral vascular disease, and
blood clots."[523]

While the LDL in the Atkins group increased 6%, the LDL
cholesterol levels in the whole-foods vegetarian group was
cut in half--dropping 52%.[523] This kind of drop would
theoretically make your average American[528] almost
heart-attack proof.[529]

When the pro-Atkins journalist who wrote the misleading
New York Times Magazine piece was confronted as to why
he didn't include the results of this landmark study, which
directly contradicted what he wrote in the article, all he could
do was to accuse the researchers of just making the data up.
[348]

It's interesting to note that the one exception --a published
study of the Atkins Diet showing a statistically significant
reduction in LDL--had no control group, put subjects on
cholesterol-lowering supplements and was funded by the
Atkins Corporation itself. Even in that study though, the
drop was modest--only a 7% drop (compared, for example,
to the 52% drop on the vegetarian diet)--and didn't include
two subjects who quit because their cholesterol levels went
out of control.[349]

Yet studies like this have been heralded as a vindication of
the Atkins Diet by the mainstream media.[350] As journalist
Michael Fumento, co-author of Fat of the Land, pointed out,
"How peculiar when the most you can say for the best-selling
fad-diet book of all time is that it probably doesn't kill people."
[351] To which I might add, "in the short-term." Based on an
analysis of the Atkins Diet, long-term use of the Atkins Diet
is expected to raise coronary heart disease risk by over 50%.
[352] "The late Dr. A," Fumento quips, "still gets an F."[353]

Less often reported in the media is the fact that one of the
research subjects placed on the Atkins Diet in the 2003
"vindication" study was hospitalized with chest pain and
another died.[354] Similarly, in the widely publicized
May 2004 study, less widely publicized was the fact that two
people in the low carb-diet arm of the study couldn't
complete the study because they died. One slipped into a
coma; the other dropped dead from heart disease.[355] As
the Director of Nutrition at the Harvard School of Medicine
has written, "there is still much danger in the widespread fad
enthusiasm for these diets."[356]

The Atkins Corporation boasts about the supposed ability
of the Atkins Diet to significantly raise the level of HDL, or
"good" cholesterol on a consistent basis.[357] HDL
transports cholesterol out of one's arteries to the liver for
disposal or recycling. Though it is actually only a minority
of controlled studies on Atkins-like diets that have shown
such an effect,[358-371] it is important to note that the type
of HDL increase sometimes seen on these diets is not
necessarily healthful.[372] When one eats more garbage
(saturated fat and cholesterol) one may need more metabolic
garbage trucks (like HDL) to get rid of it. Eating a stick of
butter may raise one's HDL, but that doesn't mean chewing
one down is good for one's heart. In any case, significantly
lowering one's LDL seems more important than significantly
raising one's HDL,[373] though the studies done on low carb
diets typically show neither.

Because of these "well-known hazards," when Atkins' book
was originally published the Chair of the Nutrition Department
at Harvard warned physicians that recommending the Atkins
Diet "borders on malpractice."[374]

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/...ethod=allWords