Bone Fish, Permit etc.

Calif Bill wrote:

If you have relatives in Cuba, you can easily go.

I don't have relatives in Cuba.

It used to be that you could enter Cuba illegally through Canada or
Mexico and get away with it, but President Bush, bless his heart,
started really cracking down. Now you face 10 years imprisonment and a
fine of $250,000.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
If you have relatives in Cuba, you can easily go.

I don't have relatives in Cuba.

It used to be that you could enter Cuba illegally through Canada or
Mexico and get away with it, but President Bush, bless his heart,
started really cracking down. Now you face 10 years imprisonment and a
fine of $250,000.

People I know who visit Cuba go through Jamaica. It's illegal
but nobody's ever had any trouble even as recently as last
February.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:47:35 -0600, Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:


It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"

Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.

What you posted above doesn't cover such. So what? That isn't the
regs. Heck, sponsored travelers don't even have to contact Treasury.
The regs are against spending money in Cuba ("Trading with the enemy"),
not travel (IOW, there are no "Tanning on the enemy's beach" regs).

First and foremost, I'm not giving travel advice, and certainly not
giving legal opinion, just observing that _everyone_ involved tacitly
understands that the regs, aside from being silly, are _almost_
unenforceable. For example, a fully-sponsored traveler need not even
contact Treasury about a trip, but they _may_ be _asked_ to sign a
statement that says the trip was fully-sponsored and show that they
don't have any receipts for expenditures while in Cuba. True enough, if
they want to bring back a suitcase full of cigars, rum, and cigarettes
like everyone else, but call them "gifts," they _may_ be then required
to apply for a license.

Obviously, given the copious record-keeping and video surveillance of
your average bodega, combined with ready cooperation they'd obviously
receive, it'd be a snap for Treasury to send over a few of it's agents,
who really aren't very busy anyway, to prove some tourist spent a few
bucks in Cuba. And you average US Attorney can't wait for those agents
return with what will undoubtedly be a career-making case. And they'll
be all the more excited given the challenging nature of the case - no
evidence, no witnesses, very iffy laws, a jury whose primary question
will be "why in the **** am I missing my soap operas for THIS?," and
finally, the real enticement, any number of well-funded groups with
lawyers leaking out of their ears who have repeatedly and publicly
stated that they'll provide any and all legal assistance, wanted or not,
to anyone ever charged with Cuban travel-expenditure-related violations.
IOW, these are adults with real jobs to do, and some tourist buying
daiquiris in Cuba ain't real high on the priority list.

Does this mean I think that some yuppie dip**** Hemingwannabe - let's
call our hypothetical traveler Woyal Rulff - can jump a jet, be his
silly-assed ugly-American self for a coupla-three weeks, and waltz back
through Miami after using his iFruit laptop in a Havana internet cafe to
post a brag to ROFF about how all the Cuban chicks are diggin' his
groovin' style? Who knows? And who cares? OTOH, I've not heard of a
single case of an average traveler getting anything more than the merest
of "boilerplate" hassles, and even that is rare.

Simply put, should a US citizen travel to Cuba, let's just say that they
won't come as a shock or surprise to anyone, and unless they take steps
to avoid doing so, they are likely to run to other USers...heck, they
won't even have a problem with the money...

HTH,
R

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:33:11 GMT, rw
wrote:

Cyli wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:



It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"


Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.

It is impossible for anyone under American jurisdiction to travel to
Cuba legally as a tourist,

Um, excuse me, there, Arthur Frommer, but what you seem to be attempting
to say is wrong - IAC, yes, an American citizen can legally travel to
Cuba as a tourist.

unless perhaps he or she made a substantial
contribution to the Republican Party.

Actually, on this one, the Dems would be the one to bribe if it were
necessary.

A license is required,

No, it isn't.

and the conditions for a license specifically exclude tourism.

AHA! Finally, ya got one...but it's a meaningless one...

HTH,
R

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:42:11 GMT, rw
wrote:

Calif Bill wrote:

If you have relatives in Cuba, you can easily go.

I don't have relatives in Cuba.

It used to be that you could enter Cuba illegally through Canada or
Mexico and get away with it, but President Bush, bless his heart,
started really cracking down. Now you face 10 years imprisonment and a
fine of $250,000.

You don't know jack **** about travel or history, but now that I think
about it, you're right - you are absolutely prohibited from traveling to
Cuba.

wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:47:35 -0600, Cyli wrote:


On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:



It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"


Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.


What you posted above doesn't cover such. So what? That isn't the
regs. Heck, sponsored travelers don't even have to contact Treasury.
The regs are against spending money in Cuba ("Trading with the enemy"),
not travel (IOW, there are no "Tanning on the enemy's beach" regs).

from: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1108-07.htm

Published on Saturday, November 8, 2003 by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel
U.S. Launches Crackdown on Cuba Travel
by Rafael Lorente

The Bush administration for the first time is beginning judicial
proceedings against dozens of people accused of illegally visiting Cuba,
even as Republicans and Democrats in Congress move to end enforcement of
the four-decade-old U.S. travel ban to the island.

Last month, unauthorized travelers to Cuba started receiving notices
from the Treasury Department that they would be required to appear
before a judge. The notices went out about the same time the Senate
voted to prohibit enforcement of the travel ban.

"It's incredible that hearings to enforce fines against Cuba travelers
are beginning at a time when Congress and the American people have
clearly stated their opposition to the travel ban," said Nancy Chang, an
attorney with the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights. Chang
said two of her center's clients have received such notices and could
face hearings early next year.

Until last month, people accused of illegal travel to Cuba had three
choices: pay the fine levied by the Treasury Department, negotiate a
settlement for a lower fine or request a hearing before an
administrative law judge. Those who requested a hearing found themselves
in legal limbo because Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control,
which enforces the travel ban, did not have any administrative law judges.

But earlier this year, the office borrowed several judges from the
Justice Department and the Federal Mine Safety and Health Review
Commission. Judges for the commission usually settle "legal disputes
arising under the Federal Mine Safety and Health Amendments Act of 1977."

Fifty cases have been referred to the judges, said Taylor Griffin, a
Treasury Department spokesman.

"We're going to be really stepping up enforcement," Griffin said.

Under the existing travel ban, Americans who do not qualify for one of a
limited number of licenses allowing them to legally fly directly from
the United States to Cuba usually travel via Canada, Mexico or the
Bahamas. If they are caught when they return to the United States,
American travelers are often questioned in writing about their trips.
Many are later told to pay a hefty fine, often about $7,500.

That's exactly what happened to Michael and Ande McCarthy of Port Huron,
Mich. The couple spent a week in Cuba in 2001, taking medicines to a
Catholic group in Havana, visiting Trinidad on the south side of the
island and even giving a ride to a hitchhiking woman and her daughter
trying to get a newly purchased fan 30 miles back to their home.

An awkward time

The McCarthys returned from Cuba through Toronto and started driving
home to Michigan. When the couple reached the Blue Water Bridge that
connects Canada to Port Huron they were asked by border agents where
they had been. Instead of saying Toronto, they said Cuba.

"We're for independence, we're for being free to travel," said Michael
McCarthy, 56.

For their honesty, the couple were sent letters from the Treasury
Department asking for $15,000 in fines -- $7,500 each. They asked for
hearings and last month Michael McCarthy received a letter signed by
Richard Newcomb, the director of the foreign assets control office.

The letter says McCarthy violated the Trading with the Enemy Act by
spending about $750 for a Cuba vacation package. The letter also says
McCarthy violated the law by "purchasing, transporting, and importing
cigars, a bottle of rum, and clothing" from Cuba valued at about $150.

The move to crack down on travelers such as the McCarthys comes at an
awkward time. On Oct. 23, the same day the letter from the government to
McCarthy went out, the Senate inserted an amendment into the
Transportation and Treasury Department appropriations bill that would
prohibit the Bush administration from spending money to enforce the
travel ban. The House passed a similar amendment in September.

This week, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted 13-5 for a
separate bill that would overturn the travel ban altogether.

Chang, the New York lawyer, thinks the legislation would make the
hearings before administrative law judges moot.

The filibuster option

President Bush has threatened to veto any legislation weakening the
travel ban or the embargo against Cuba. The White House and its allies
are hoping to avoid a veto by stripping the travel ban provisions from
the appropriations bills in a conference being held now to work out
differences between the House and Senate versions.

This week, two Republicans and two Democrats in the Senate opposed to
the president's Cuba policy sent a letter to the conference negotiators
demanding that the travel ban provisions remain. Otherwise, the letter
said, "we will consider all parliamentary options available to us to
respond" -- a not-so-veiled threat of a filibuster.

Enforcement of the travel ban has been stronger since Bush took office.
Bush benefited from a huge turnout by Cuban-American voters in South
Florida who perceived the Clinton administration as soft on Cuba's Fidel
Castro and who oppose tourism to the island because it puts money in the
coffers of the government. During the 2000 campaign, Bush promised to be
tougher on Castro, and enforcing the travel ban was one way to do it.

But many of Bush's Cuban-American allies have not been happy with the
administration, saying it has not done enough and threatening to
withhold support in next year's presidential election.

In response, Bush last month announced a new presidential commission on
transition to democracy in Cuba and said his administration would crack
down on travel to the island, which he said encourages "an illicit sex
trade."

But within two weeks, the Senate voted to forbid enforcing the travel
ban, setting up the current showdown.

"There's only one man standing between my wife and myself and our
friends who want to make connections [in Cuba]," Michael McCarthy said.
"And that man is George W. Bush."

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:39:57 GMT, rw
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:47:35 -0600, Cyli wrote:


On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:



It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"


Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.


What you posted above doesn't cover such. So what? That isn't the
regs. Heck, sponsored travelers don't even have to contact Treasury.
The regs are against spending money in Cuba ("Trading with the enemy"),
not travel (IOW, there are no "Tanning on the enemy's beach" regs).

from: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1108-07.htm

Published on Saturday, November 8, 2003 by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel
U.S. Launches Crackdown on Cuba Travel
by Rafael Lorente

Absolutely. Spot on. You should never go to Cuba - it's illegal. And
besides, the Bush administration will have you drawn and quartered for
even considering it. Cuba ba-a-a-a-ad, Common Dreams go-o-o-o-od.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty with regard to you not actually being a moron,
R

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:33:11 GMT, rw
wrote:


Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:




It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"


Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.

It is impossible for anyone under American jurisdiction to travel to
Cuba legally as a tourist,


Um, excuse me, there, Arthur Frommer, but what you seem to be attempting
to say is wrong - IAC, yes, an American citizen can legally travel to
Cuba as a tourist.

As usual, you don't know what the **** you're talking about, but that
doesn't stop you from bloviating.

What am I going to believe: what's reported in the South Florida
Sun-Sentinel, what's stated unambiguously as policy by the President and
the Justice Department, or what's claimed by a ROFF ****head who's
famous for being wrong about nearly everything and has the track record
to prove it?

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:05:24 GMT, rw wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:33:11 GMT, rw
wrote:


Cyli wrote:

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:




It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"


Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.

It is impossible for anyone under American jurisdiction to travel to
Cuba legally as a tourist,


Um, excuse me, there, Arthur Frommer, but what you seem to be attempting
to say is wrong - IAC, yes, an American citizen can legally travel to
Cuba as a tourist.

As usual, you don't know what the **** you're talking about, but that
doesn't stop you from bloviating.

What am I going to believe: what's reported in the South Florida
Sun-Sentinel, what's stated unambiguously as policy by the President and
the Justice Department, or what's claimed by a ROFF ****head who's
famous for being wrong about nearly everything and has the track record
to prove it?

ahahahahahahahahahahaha!

priceless :-)

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:02:07 -0600, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:39:57 GMT, rw
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:47:35 -0600, Cyli wrote:


On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:05:53 -0600, wrote:



It ****es me off to no end that my government, in its infinite wisdom,
and of course considering the influence of the Cuban exile community in
the swing state of Florida, does not permit me to travel to Cuba under
penalty of law. Where do these pipsqueak politicians get off telling me
where I can and can't go?

Did you actually _READ_ any of the site you yourself posted? Part of me
is tempted to simply call you a moron, but I don't _really_ think you
are, another part is tempted to make smart-assed remarks, and the
remaining part is just sad that you're spreading bad information even
with better information at your fingertips. So I'm simply asking, "Did
you actually _READ_ any of the site you posted?"


Well, the Travel Cuba USA site quotes what US citizens can legally go
to Cuba.

"Americans can travel to Cuba legally if you are a Cuban American,
politician, journalist or if you have a research project regarding
Cuba. Others including students, religious groups, and humanitarians
can apply for a license from the U.S. Treasury Department Office of
Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)"

I don't think that covers too many bone fishermen and tourists who
want a tan on the beach.


What you posted above doesn't cover such. So what? That isn't the
regs. Heck, sponsored travelers don't even have to contact Treasury.
The regs are against spending money in Cuba ("Trading with the enemy"),
not travel (IOW, there are no "Tanning on the enemy's beach" regs).

from: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1108-07.htm

Published on Saturday, November 8, 2003 by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel
U.S. Launches Crackdown on Cuba Travel
by Rafael Lorente

Absolutely. Spot on. You should never go to Cuba - it's illegal. And
besides, the Bush administration will have you drawn and quartered for
even considering it. Cuba ba-a-a-a-ad, Common Dreams go-o-o-o-od.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty with regard to you not actually being a moron.

pathetic

/daytripper (that's what happens when you believe everything you see on Fox