knotted leaders

thats fast
"Opus" wrote in message
...

"G. J. Z." wrote in message
news:A2flh.203$5q6.129@trndny02...
I think you'd be surprised at how efficient one can become at it.

I guess, but I tie all of my leader segments with blood knots and between
length measurement and tyin' I can't imagine tyin' one in less that 4 or 5
minutes each.

Op

"G. J. Z." wrote in message
news:bdklh.596$c94.153@trndny09...
thats fast

Yes, I'd say so. Unrealistically fast, IMO. I can tie-up a leader in about
10 or so minutes, I guess. I've never actually timed myself. I measure and
cut a number of tippet lengths that I figure on tyin', and then tie. I
don't doubt a person can tie them up faster than myself. I feel that the
blood knot is the strongest and straightest tie for leaders. I don't know
this to be a fact, it's just my opinion. So, I tie each of my segment
together with a blood-knot, and he apparently ties his leaders using
blood-knots as well.

I like that a blood-knot because it keeps the segments straight, the length
of the entire leader. On the stream, I have been known to tie on another
tippet using a double-surgeons knot, but that generally because I am tyin'
to a 5X a 6X tippet and it's just expedient to do so.

I've no call to question the man's business. If he can sell his leaders for
$2.00 a piece, then I consider the buyer to be gettin' a bargain, as most
manufactured leaders sell for a dollar to two dollars more than that.

Hell, if he tied 12 foot leaders, I might be convinced to buy some myself.

Op

Opus wrote:

Yes, I'd say so. Unrealistically fast, IMO. I can tie-up a leader in about
10 or so minutes, I guess. I've never actually timed myself. I measure and
cut a number of tippet lengths that I figure on tyin', and then tie. I
don't doubt a person can tie them up faster than myself. I feel that the
blood knot is the strongest and straightest tie for leaders. I don't know
this to be a fact, it's just my opinion.

FYI, the surgeon's knot tests stronger than the blood knot.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message news
FYI, the surgeon's knot tests stronger than the blood knot.

Is there a significant difference between the two in stiffness in terms of
turning over the leader?

Joe F.

rb608 wrote:
"rw" wrote in message news

FYI, the surgeon's knot tests stronger than the blood knot.


Is there a significant difference between the two in stiffness in terms of
turning over the leader?

I don't know, but I doubt it.

Blood knots are fine for the heavier parts of the leader, and even
superior if only because they're smoother and straighter. You aren't
going to break those knots unless you tie an incredibly bad one.

The surgeon's knot is the clear choice for the leader/tippet connection,
IMO. It's stronger and easier to tie.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rw" wrote in message
nk.net...
Opus wrote:

Yes, I'd say so. Unrealistically fast, IMO. I can tie-up a leader in
about 10 or so minutes, I guess. I've never actually timed myself. I
measure and cut a number of tippet lengths that I figure on tyin', and
then tie. I don't doubt a person can tie them up faster than myself. I
feel that the blood knot is the strongest and straightest tie for
leaders. I don't know this to be a fact, it's just my opinion.

FYI, the surgeon's knot tests stronger than the blood knot.

You may be correct in your assessment of the surgeon's knot, and I should
have qualified my statement to read, "I feel that the blood knot is the
strongest and straightest tie for leaders, *and my particular fishing.*"

So, for my purposes the blood-knot is a straighter knot and the strength is
sufficient to catch the itty-bitty trout I fish for. I've seen the fish you
catch out West, and they are considerably larger than the trout I catch, so
strength isn't the significant characteristic I look for when stalkin' the
trout in NC mountain streams.

I have no doubt that you and the surgeon's knot will live happily ever after
together and I and my blood-knot will do likewise.

Op

"Opus" wrote in
:

So, for my purposes the blood-knot is a straighter knot and the
strength is sufficient to catch the itty-bitty trout I fish for.

I'll second you on this. The surgeon's knot is an OK tippet to leader
connection, but if you use it to tie a knotted leader it lacks appeal for
me because of it's crookedness.


--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Opus" wrote in
:

So, for my purposes the blood-knot is a straighter knot and the
strength is sufficient to catch the itty-bitty trout I fish for.

I'll second you on this. The surgeon's knot is an OK tippet to leader
connection, but if you use it to tie a knotted leader it lacks appeal for
me because of it's crookedness.

This matter of the crookedness of the surgeon's knot is a recurrent theme
here. I've always had a hard time understanding this because mine don't
come out this way. I thought about it and did a bit of research the last
time it came around, and I think I've figured out what the problem is.
People tie this knot in the wrong way.....or, to be more precise about it,
in the wrong place.

The crookedness referred to looks, when the leader is held horizontally,
very much like a child's drawing of the wavy surface of a lake; a series of
shallow arcs (belly down, ends up) connected at the ends.....imagine a
series of left parentheses " ( " turned 90 degrees counter-clockwise and
butted together. It happens like this:

Lay the leader down on a flat surface with the butt end to the left. Now,
take the tippet and set it down next to the leader so that the right end is
even with that of the leader and the rest runs out to the left, parallel to
the leader. In essence, you now have two lines running parallel and next to
one another, sort of like a model of railroad tracks. If you now tie an
overhand knot in the ends of both strands held together you will get exactly
the result described above (assuming you do this with multiple sections).
Remember that the surgeon's knot is simply an overhand knot with multiple
turns rather than just one.

Sitting on the bank of some small stream in Pennsylvania a few years ago,
waiting for the evening hatch with Tom Littleton, I happened to glance at
his leader. Choppy waves. Tom's leader was built as described above.

Here's how it should have been done:

Start as before. After setting the tippet down, pull it toward the right
until there is only about a six inch overlap between the two strands (leader
and tippet). Thus, assuming a 30 inch tippet, tippet and leader overlap for
6 inches and the tippet continues to extend 24 inches to the right of the
end of the leader. Now, holding both strands together, make a loop near the
left end of the overlap, and proceed with a multi-turn overhand knot, being
sure to draw both the end of the leader and all 24 inches of the tippet
through the loop on each turn. Moisten the knot and pull tight, making sure
to hold both strands on each end of the knot. You will note that the tag
ends of each of the strands come out at the opposite ends of the knot and
run parallel to the running lines.....NOT perpendicular, as is often
described when the knot is done wrong. In fact, since the tag ends come out
of the ends of the knot, it is superior to the blood knot (which it very
much resembles on cursory inspection) because the tag ends of the latter DO
come out perpendicular from the center of the knot. If the ends are snipped
close and carefully, the is virtually nothing left to snag on guides or
debris. Moreover, each end is held tightly under several wraps, whereas in
the blood knot there is only a single strand holding each end in place and
close clipping can make the whole thing come apart fairly easily.

You'll know you've done it right if the leader is straight.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...


...You'll know you've done it right if the leader is straight.

Actually, you'll know you've done it right before you even tighten the knot.
Done correctly, the end of the tippet that you intend to attach the fly to
will be pointed to the right.....away from the butt end of the leader. Done
wrong, it will point back to where it came from......back to the leader and
fly line.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
This matter of the crookedness of the surgeon's knot is a recurrent theme
here. I've always had a hard time understanding this because mine don't
come out this way. treatise sniped

I've also never had a problem with crookedness. In a shorter explanation, I
believe it's simple because I'm very careful to pull the knot tight evenly.
With all that loose mono in your hands, it's tempting to just pull it all
together & fish, but I watch each loop as it goes together & tug as
necessary to adjust each one so that both pieces tighen together exactly the
same (as can practically be achieved). I always get a nice symmetrical knot
& straight leader.

Joe F.