the OSCARS!

On Mar 2, 10:17 am, "rb608" wrote:
Within that zone, Gore's total usage is three (not 20) times the average,
and his usage per square foot is average. That's *average*; not 20x
average, not 100x average; but average.

Usage per square foot? I'll certainly concede that he's got above
average consumption (being an ex-VP), but trying to claim he's
average because he lives in a huge house is disingenuous.
On a per sq foot basis, I bet he's much more efficient than a trailer
home. On an energy consumption per person basis he's off
the charts no matter how you count it.

The 100x guess was comparing it to the average world citizen.
And I'm sure plenty of them live in hot humid places....possibly
even worse than Tennessee. ;-)

Lastly, I expect you would concede the point that the Gores are not an
"average" family.

Absolutely.
- Ken

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:17:14 GMT, "rb608"
wrote:

" wrote in message
However when you're living in a mansion, consuming 10x the
energy that the average American uses (100x(?) what the average
person uses) you gotta expect some grief.

Again with the parroting of the smear machine talking points? I was
avoiding this sort of detail, but that comparison to the "average American"
is so bogus, I gotta put a few talking points of my own out there.

The "average" home electricity use quoted by TCPR is a national average that
includes apartments and mobile homes.

In Gore's climatic zone (per the Dept. of Energy), the average energy usage
is much higher, thanks to hot, humid summers and cold winters.

Within that zone, Gore's total usage is three (not 20) times the average,
and his usage per square foot is average. That's *average*; not 20x
average, not 100x average; but average.

Lastly, I expect you would concede the point that the Gores are not an
"average" family. He's an ex-VP with special security arrangements, and has
live-in security staff. He and his wife both work on their business and
charitable undertakings out of their house, so they have space for offices
and office staff. This clearly precludes an "average" size house.

So, what validity is there in comparing Gore's energy bill to that of an
average American household? The answer: none. It's utter bull****; and it
was only done and only repeated by people who don't give a **** about
portraying the facts in manner that actually reflects the truth. I think I
used the term "lying sack of ****". It's contemptible, IMHO.

Joe F.


p.s. By way of disclosure, a good deal of the above was copied,
paraphrased, or otherwise plageirized from genuine, honest-to-god talking
points at http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/2/28/155124/075.

Uh, yeah...

A coupla-few ACTUAL points you might wish to consider:

The enormous (in-resident) Gore family, all two of them, have three
homes totaling about 20,000SF, and the 30KUSD bills were just for the
one in Nashville. But they aren't in Nashville all that often (less
than 50% of the year, and his primary businesses aren't based in
Nashville, at his home or otherwise).

As to "security staff," unless it's changed very recently, he
doesn't/didn't have a "security staff" or "security arrangements" that
would create such a energy usage at his sometime-home. He has/had
security systems and the cops, just like ordinary ol' people, with
security personnel around on an as-needed basis. Ex-VPs aren't US
Secret Service protectees (as ex-VPs).

And he didn't start buying "green energy" or whatever you want to call
it until he got called on this same thing last year. Except then, he
wasn't in the news much, so very few really paid attention or gave a
**** where he bought his power or how much he used.

TC,
R

On Mar 2, 10:17 am, "rb608" wrote:
It's utter bull****; and it
was only done and only repeated by people who don't give a **** about
portraying the facts in manner that actually reflects the truth. I think I
used the term "lying sack of ****". It's contemptible, IMHO.

Just to feed the flames, some more right-wing news reporting for
you...

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/analysis...ula/index.html

- Ken

wrote:
...
To KenF, I didn't say it _all_ first worlders were
hypocrites, only those that "truly believe global
warming will cause disaster". I'm not pushing
perfection, but if one really believes the disaster scenario,
then nothing short of radically abandoning the first
world lifestyle is even "good", and it is, yes, hypocritical.

(Still to KenF and others)

Look, I like what Al Gore has done in raising this
issue. I didn't nor haven't criticized him for this. The only
thing I said was that the idea that you can live the life
you want and simply purchase your "carbon offsets"
so that you can claim to be carbon neutral is, IMO,
a very elitish, right-wing idea. And I stick by that.

Just because an idea is right-wing doesn't mean it's necessarily
a bad idea. Something similar has proven to be effective in the
power industry. Those power companies that emit less pollution can
sell their "pollution credits" to other power companies. This has
been remarkably effective in reducing pollution over all. The power
of the market and all that. Besides which, nobody, least of all Al
Gore, claims that purchasing carbon offsets to become carbon neutral
is going to "solve" global warming. It's one small way to help in
the overall effort, not a "solution".

And regarding your email, the warm and fuzzy Prius owners you hang
with must really tick you off. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:17:14 GMT, "rb608"
wrote:

" wrote in message
However when you're living in a mansion, consuming 10x the
energy that the average American uses (100x(?) what the average
person uses) you gotta expect some grief.

Again with the parroting of the smear machine talking points? I was
avoiding this sort of detail, but that comparison to the "average American"
is so bogus, I gotta put a few talking points of my own out there.

The "average" home electricity use quoted by TCPR is a national average that
includes apartments and mobile homes.

In Gore's climatic zone (per the Dept. of Energy), the average energy usage
is much higher, thanks to hot, humid summers and cold winters.

Within that zone, Gore's total usage is three (not 20) times the average,
and his usage per square foot is average. That's *average*; not 20x
average, not 100x average; but average.

Lastly, I expect you would concede the point that the Gores are not an
"average" family. He's an ex-VP with special security arrangements, and has
live-in security staff. He and his wife both work on their business and
charitable undertakings out of their house, so they have space for offices
and office staff. This clearly precludes an "average" size house.

So, what validity is there in comparing Gore's energy bill to that of an
average American household? The answer: none. It's utter bull****; and it
was only done and only repeated by people who don't give a **** about
portraying the facts in manner that actually reflects the truth. I think I
used the term "lying sack of ****". It's contemptible, IMHO.

Joe F.


p.s. By way of disclosure, a good deal of the above was copied,
paraphrased, or otherwise plageirized from genuine, honest-to-god talking
points at http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/2/28/155124/075.

I think this sums up the whole affair very nicely ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/2xrd4q

/daytripper (ahahahahahaha!)

On 1 Mar 2007 16:59:36 -0800, "
wrote:

On Mar 1, 2:05 pm, "Opus" wrote:
" wrote in message

FWIW, I have no real feelings pro/con about Gore...the hypocrisy
is funny nonetheless.
- Ken

You're bordering on obsession, what with two exact posts :~^ )

You do it again, and folks may et the impression that you are trying to
start a movement!

I made fun of him for inventing the internet back in the 90's, so
I guess it might be 3 posts now.....wait does this post count
too? DAMN!
- Ken

Only if you retain that stupid attitude about Gore and the 'Net, which
has been disproven so many times. You know that all he claimed was
aiding in the legislation and funding for it, not inventing it, as it
had already been invented. He never claimed to do more than smooth
the way forward.
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:28:49 -0600, "Wolfgang"
wrote:


" wrote in message
ups.com...


Thanks to that pesky Freedom of Information Act, we discover that,
last
August alone, Gore used 22,619 kWh - more than an average American
family uses in a year.

Accepting his Oscar last week, Gore said: "It's not as hard as you
might think.
We have a long way to go but all of us can do something in our own
lives to
make a difference."

Gore is reportedly installing solar panels on the roof of his mansion.
How much
bloody electricity can one man use, for God's sake? He may have
invented the
Internet, but it now looks as if he's running the whole thing from his
house."

Well, wouldn't ya just know it. Global warming was a colossal hoax for
decades......and then Al Gore single-handedly causes it to become real in
less than two months. Talk about yer irony!

Moron.

Wolfgang



Oh, I've been willing to believe in it for a few years (always keeping
in mind that I believed the previously popular theory that we were
going to enter an new ice age any century soon), but I don't grant
all, or even most, of the cause of it to humans. I'll certainly
admit that we exacerbate it, but am not sure by how much and in
exactly what ways.

I've become too accustomed to the whines and screams of the ego filled
humans who want to blame the rest of us for every harm to the
environment and who claim that humans will eventually (usually in
their life time, if they're young) destroy EVERYTHING, presumably
leaving the earth a barren wasteland of rock in vacuum. To them,
it's all about humans.

The earth has been going through hot flashes and chills for the cycle
of its existence. While we are adding to the heat this cycle and
should stop doing that, it's not a brand new thing, entirely due to
human evil.
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Mar 3, 9:03 pm, Cyli wrote:
Only if you retain that stupid attitude about Gore and the 'Net, which
has been disproven so many times. You know that all he claimed was
aiding in the legislation and funding for it, not inventing it, as it
had already been invented. He never claimed to do more than smooth
the way forward.

I can only assume by "disproven", you mean that someone told
you that he didn't say it? You really shouldn't take people's
word for things if you are going to call others stupid.

Fortunately transcripts of all the dumb things people say on
CNN get kept forever and ever.

Lest you accuse me of quoting him out of context, here's the
entire transcript:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...anscript.gore/

And the relevant statements:

BLITZER: Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination
process,
support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of yours, a former
colleague in the
Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn't necessarily
bring to
this process?

GO Well, I will be offering -- I'll be offering my vision when my
campaign
begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it
will be
compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've
traveled to
every part of this country during the last six years. During my
service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet. I took
the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that
have proven
to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental
protection, improvements in our educational system.

Best Wishes,
- Ken

" wrote in message
"During my service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet.

Yep, it was those words that stirred up the right-wing **** storm. Those
words, however, are generally accepted by those in the industry and relevent
political arena as being essentially valid. Most promienently, by Vinton
Cerf and Robert Kahn, who personally bebunked the "I invented the Internet"
baloney. Their statement, in part, reads,

"No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the
Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among
people in government and the university community. But as the two people
who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the
Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a
Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to
our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of
time."

"Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his
role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the
initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have
argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover,
there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's
initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving
Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and
promoting the Internet long before most people were listening."

Their entire statement can be viewed at http://tinyurl.com/28h23. Of
course, you are free to discount the opinions of Cerf & Kahn. I mean, what
the hell do they know, eh?

Then there's that persky Lifetime Achievement Award from the International
Academy of Digital Artsa and Sciences given for his "three deacdes of
contributions to the internet."

But screw all that, let's accept the ridicule of a misquoted T-shirt slogan
as the actual facts, that'll be a lot simpler.

Joe F.

rb608 typed:
" wrote in message
"During my service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet.

Yep, it was those words that stirred up the right-wing **** storm.

That seems to be what it's all about for both sides on the extremes.
There is no thought given as to the intent of the message, but just the
exact words - and parsing them endlessly. Not that this would ever
happen on ROFF. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
---------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/