How much fly line?

On Mar 22, 5:24 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0700, wrote:



What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?

Mike,

I think you're the right person here to whom I can ask my question.
And the question is what would be the best combination of
rod-reel-backing-line-tippet-fly for fishing with fast sinking
shooting head?
I mean in terms of rod length/weight, shoting head length/weight,
backing length/diameter etc.
And could you name a couple of brand names for
the sinking shooting head line?
I visited the Bass Pro shop but it's too confusing to me to find the
right combination from the specs they provided.
Thank you in advance.

Vladimir L.

--


What do you want to use it for? What is your target quarry?. I need
that information to give you a sensible answer.


TL
MC

A practical application, an extract form an article on Grayling
fishing.

OK, we've all done it. read a book or a magazine article about some
clever-****e who wanders around getting paid for catching fish. Often
large ones, in interesting and exotic places, which we will never ever
see. Wonderful pictures of various stream and river-scapes, and
fantastic fish are depicted, perhaps a re-hash of some tactic or other
we have all heard a hundred times before, a list of flies, some
technical information on lines or rods etc, and that was it.

Always disappoints the hell out of me in the end! Although I keep
reading them all, or at least as many as I can afford!

Long ago, I decided that if I could not visit all these places, then I
must find a way of catching such fish and enjoying myself close to
home. The reason I explain this, is that anybody reading this can do
exactly the same. It requires some application and knowledge, but once
you have this, you can not fail. The result is inevitable. After all
we are only trying to fool a fish, this is not quantum mechanics.

As I mentioned in a previous article, in my opinion #6 weight rods are
far too heavy for most of this type of fishing, especially small
stream fishing, and most especially for grayling fishing. "Oh of
course", everybody doubtless thought at the time, and continued
reading avidly, as they would also like to catch lovely fish on light
gear, and then went on to wonder how I manage to cast a size six long
shank weighted Woolly bugger, green tailed or otherwise, with such a
rod.

This is the monstrosity under discussion;



Well, I will let you into a little secret. Just like all the other
clever-****es, I cheat! There is no way you are going to be able to
cast such a heavily weighted and wind resistant fly using a standard
#3 weight set-up. It is pointless even trying, you will cry tears of
frustration, and if the rod does not shatter the first time the heavy
fly hits it, then you will doubtless break it across your knee, and
curse the fool who ever suggested such a thing to oblivion and worse.

There is however an extremely simple and effective trick which will
allow you to cast such a monstrosity, in the manner I will presently
describe, without any trouble at all, to the everlasting amazement of
your angling companions, (who don't know the trick yet), and hopefully
the inevitable downfall of large numbers of nice fish.

This trick is absolutely germane to many of the techniques I use, I
could not possibly do without it, and if forced to, I would probably
not catch very much, certainly not many very large Grayling.

So, enough suspense building, what do I actually do? Quite simple, I
use a heavier line. I never need to cast more than thirty feet, and so
I simply use a thirty-foot piece of #6 weight fly-line. I have no
trouble at all hurling leaden monstrosities with such a line, and as I
never have more than thirty feet of line out, the rod has no trouble
handling it either. I have even used a piece of #8 weight line on a #3
weight rod without any problems at all.

So why not use a #6 weight rod to start with? I hear you asking.
Because that is not the same thing at all. If one fishes heavy flies
on light tippets, then one must perforce use a light rod, as otherwise
the rod will simply not provide enough cushioning effect, and the fish
will break you. One may use 2 lb tippet on size six long shank woolly
buggers with impunity, as long as the rod is light enough to cushion
the fight of the fish.

One must indeed constantly check the knots on such a leader, and also
change the tippet at the slightest sign of abrasion, or after a hang-
up etc. But it works perfectly well.

Standard tapered leaders are useless for this type of fishing. One may
use the butt of such a leader, but it must be modified, usually by
adding a much heavier butt. We need a good length of light line in
order to get down deep quickly, notwithstanding the very heavy fly, in
order to stay in the "strike zone" as our American friends say, and a
normal leader will not allow this.

"Oh dear!", I hear some of you mumbling, "That does not sound much
like the fly-fishing I know and love". At this particular point in
time, one is bound to decide, does one wish to fish? Or does one wish
to catch a few as well? Preferably large ones!

For those of you already sickened by this philistine approach, then
cease at once I beg you. Because it gets worse! Smile

Most people go and buy a fishing rod somewhere, for any number of
reasons, and then start trying to get the rest of the tackle they are
of course then also obliged to buy, to match it in some way. This very
rarely works, and is the main reason why many have awful trouble
catching fish.

In this particular instance, we require absolutely specific flies and
leaders, in order to attain our objectives. All the other gear used is
a direct result of this. If you want to try these methods on a #6
weight rod, then go ahead, but they will not work anywhere near as
well.

So, we have our fly, preferably the size six long shank weighted green
tailed woolly bugger already mentioned. Other flies may be used, but
this one works perfectly, and is easy to tie.


There are no Grayling in the Baltic. I catch them in small rivers and
streams.

TL
MC

wrote:
A practical application, ...
circus act snipped
"Oh dear!", I hear some of you mumbling, "That does not sound much
like the fly-fishing I know and love". ...

Finally, you posted something in this thread that makes sense,
except I would add that doesn't sound like fly fishing at all.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Cont´d

Because such Grayling are large, solitary, and territorial, they are
also often more or less completely cannibalistic. "Not the beautiful
´Lady of the Stream´", I hear some exclaim, "how can this be?". But I
assure you it is indeed the case. Large fish need more food to support
them, especially if they wish to keep growing, or even just maintain
their weight. As a result, they are bound to concentrate their efforts
on larger food items, as the energy returns from insects, unless they
are in massive abundance, will not even keep them alive.

I have had a number of fish over 55cm using this fly and these
tactics, and a couple even larger. Of course one can not catch such
fish every day!

This is why a woolly bugger is attractive to such a fish, it is large,
it moves, and it looks like a nice juicy meal. In most fish, such an
object, when presented correctly, will trigger a response of some
sort. In larger fish, usually an attack or feeding response. So it is
with large Grayling. Although even small fish and medium sized fish
will often attack such a fly with abandon.

We have our fly, our rod, our piece of line, and we are about to
assemble our leader. Normally I use up to nine feet of 3 lb breaking
strain nylon. Just ordinary nylon as sold on the hundred yard spools
in any tackle shop. I do like Maxima, but I don't get heart failure if
I have to use something else. I don't bother with "double strength",
"Fluorocarbon", or all the other stuff which is now available, as it
offers me no particular advantages.

Depending on the depth of water I wish to fish, I tie this long fine
tippet to a leader ring, and thence to a heavy, short, steeply tapered
butt.

This is easy and quick to do, and is very quickly changed or adjusted
at will. If one wishes, one may use an indicator as well, but I don't,
I rely on watching the end of my line, or on "feel", depending how I
am fishing.

Casting this rig as required needs a little practice. I have heard
this particular cast described in a number of ways, but I call it the
"tuck" cast. The idea is to cast, and then stop the line, so that the
fly starts to fall vertically as it comes back towards the caster. It
will plop in, and sink almost vertically, and very quickly. Which is
exactly what we wish to achieve.

Even very deep and quite fast water may be fished properly in this
manner. Usually I dead drift the fly through a likely run at least
once. If nothing occurs, I move it! Usually the move does the trick.
The move can be anything from a couple of twitches, to actually
retrieving the fly upstream. The hits are of course unmistakable in
such a case, and the fish is nearly always well hooked. It really
wants that fly, and makes every attempt to obtain it. Then the fun
begins!

TL
MC

On 22 Mar 2007 09:51:47 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 22, 5:24 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0700, wrote:



What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?

Mike,

I think you're the right person here to whom I can ask my question.
And the question is what would be the best combination of
rod-reel-backing-line-tippet-fly for fishing with fast sinking
shooting head?
I mean in terms of rod length/weight, shoting head length/weight,
backing length/diameter etc.
And could you name a couple of brand names for
the sinking shooting head line?
I visited the Bass Pro shop but it's too confusing to me to find the
right combination from the specs they provided.
Thank you in advance.

Vladimir L.

--


What do you want to use it for? What is your target quarry?. I need
that information to give you a sensible answer.


TL
MC


Mike,

Thanks for the response.
My target is brown and lake trout inhabit in the pretty deep whirlpool
on Niagara river or similar with strong current.

Vladimir L.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Vladimir L. wrote in
:


Thanks for the response.
My target is brown and lake trout inhabit in the pretty deep whirlpool
on Niagara river or similar with strong current.


Boy, Peter Charles is really and expert on the Whirlpool. Maybe he can
chime in, if he's still with us.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Mar 22, 6:51 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 22 Mar 2007 09:51:47 -0700, wrote:



On Mar 22, 5:24 pm, Vladimir L. wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0700, wrote:

What is a "shooting head"? What can I do with it? Do I really need
one?

Mike,

I think you're the right person here to whom I can ask my question.
And the question is what would be the best combination of
rod-reel-backing-line-tippet-fly for fishing with fast sinking
shooting head?
I mean in terms of rod length/weight, shoting head length/weight,
backing length/diameter etc.
And could you name a couple of brand names for
the sinking shooting head line?
I visited the Bass Pro shop but it's too confusing to me to find the
right combination from the specs they provided.
Thank you in advance.

Vladimir L.

--

What do you want to use it for? What is your target quarry?. I need
that information to give you a sensible answer.

TL
MC

Mike,

Thanks for the response.
My target is brown and lake trout inhabit in the pretty deep whirlpool
on Niagara river or similar with strong current.

Vladimir L.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


OK. Then I assume you will largely be using streamers, heavy nymphs
etc. I don´t know the average fish size so I will assume that the rig
should be at least capable of fighting and landing a 5 lb brown in
heavy current?

For carrying large streamers or leaded nymphs etc, you will need at
least a piece of #7 to #8 weight line.

You will also need a fairly powerful rod, at least a #7 or #8

My choice here would be as follows;

A shooting head made from a High density sinking line. At the present
time, and for your purposes, I would recommend this;

http://www.rioproducts.com/

The outbound T14 custom. The chart given shows where to cut the line
to obtain the desired weight.

In this case a #7 wt rod ( total load for 90´DT = 555 grains ) which
would be my first choice as I don´t really like casting heavy rods, is
a bit too weak, so I would go for an #8 ( Total DT load 630 grains)
instead.

I would use the line mentioned at 30 ft = 420 grains. ( You can try
it out before you cut it, depending on the rod, you may be able to use
it "out of the box" ) but 490 grains is really too heavy even for an
#8 weight.

This is a very heavy line, and not easy to cast and control. It moves
very fast indeed through the air, and your timing must be impeccable
if you want to avoid a severe belt around the neck or ears. Casting a
high density sinker is not at all the same as casting floating lines.

You can use ordinary tapered leaders here, in the appropriate size
range, either nine or twelve foot. This is not critical on sinking
line presentations. You can even use a length of nylon as a but,t and
simply tie some tippet to it. Turnover and presentation are completely
non critical in such applications. You should use a needle knot or
similar to attach your butt section;
http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/knots/needle/index.html

If you want to save some money, then you can make up your own shooting
heads, You will find info here;

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...s/1st-7th.html

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbette...ads/index.html

You can use any reel you like which will hold the head and the
backing. I would use good braid or similar backing in this case. I
would go for the lightest reel I could find which will hold my line.
Probably a carbon fibre composite like this;

http://www.morayflyfishing.co.uk/okumaairframereels.php

I use these reels in the salt, among other things, they are light,
cheap and very reliable. You will doubtless find a distributor in the
USA

Any fast #8 weight from 9´to 9´6" will suit you. I can´t recommend a
specific rod here, I build my own.

There are other possible combinations, and a couple which would be
easier to cast as well. But the outfit described will do the job for
you. The T14 is a little on the heavy side, normally I would not
recommend sinking heads in excess of about 300 grains, but in this
specific case, the extra weight is justified.

TL
MC

Incidentally, this application is on the upper limits of single handed
rod capacity. The 9´6" is better than a 9´here, as the longer reach is
useful. However, for this application, I would seriously consider
using a light double hander in the twelve to fourteen n foot range. I
can´t give you much information on that though as I don´t use them
very often, only very occasionally, and am not well informed enough to
give you qualified advice on that.

As somebody else mentioned, Peter Charles would probably be the man
for that, but I don´t know whether he even still posts here. If you
are interested in trying such, then let me know, and I will find
somebody who can give you more info on it.

TL
MC

wrote in news:1174591744.736814.61840
@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:


Incidentally, this application is on the upper limits of single handed
rod capacity. The 9´6" is better than a 9´here, as the longer reach is
useful. However, for this application, I would seriously consider
using a light double hander in the twelve to fourteen n foot range. I
can´t give you much information on that though as I don´t use them
very often, only very occasionally, and am not well informed enough to
give you qualified advice on that.

As somebody else mentioned, Peter Charles would probably be the man
for that, but I don´t know whether he even still posts here. If you
are interested in trying such, then let me know, and I will find
somebody who can give you more info on it.

TL
MC


Also, I recommend "Fly Fishing for Gread Lakes Steelhead", by Rick Kustich,
who lives on Grand Island. Great review of how you should gear up, and I
think it talks specifically about the Niagara.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Scott Seidman wrote in
. 1.4:

wrote in news:1174591744.736814.61840
@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:


Incidentally, this application is on the upper limits of single
handed rod capacity. The 9´6" is better than a 9´here, as the longer
reach is useful. However, for this application, I would seriously
consider using a light double hander in the twelve to fourteen n foot
range. I can´t give you much information on that though as I don´t
use them very often, only very occasionally, and am not well informed
enough to give you qualified advice on that.

As somebody else mentioned, Peter Charles would probably be the man
for that, but I don´t know whether he even still posts here. If you
are interested in trying such, then let me know, and I will find
somebody who can give you more info on it.

TL
MC


Also, I recommend "Fly Fishing for Gread Lakes Steelhead", by Rick
Kustich, who lives on Grand Island. Great review of how you should
gear up, and I think it talks specifically about the Niagara.


In fact, there are some practical considerations for this type of
fishing. Often, the air temp is below freezing, so manipulating your
line is a no-no, or you'll constantly be clearing your frozen guides.
It's often windy, or otherwise miserable, and the water is moving pretty
fast. You'll be using substantial split shot to bring your fly down, and
casting isn't pretty-- but at least you'll never have to worry about
sending the line out far-- its easy.

In fact, around here, some of the less attractive methods involve loading
a fly rod and reel with mono!! I think that's about to be outlawed in
fly-fishing only areas.

Another deadly non fly fishing method that's seeing increased activity in
the area is center-pin fishing.

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply