R L Winston Fly Rods

wrote


That makes no sense. IIRC, you are a professional dog trainer (and if
not, the example still holds). Let's say you charge $100USD per hour
for your time and the training Joe Prospect requests will take 2 hours
of your time. If he offers to trade you readily-saleable, legal
merchandise with a market value of $1000USD that'll take you 2 hours to
sell, it wouldn't make good economic sense to refuse. "Pros" look at
the numbers. And why, in your opinion, would the party making the
suggestion make a difference or would the value need to be "GREATER"?


OK some more of my "train of thought" and, yes, largely based on real world
"would ya train Ol Blue in trade fer" experiences.

First, I made some assumptions .... and that is always risky and may
instantly devalue what I say.

Assumption ONE: this lady wants to make her living as an artist
Assumption TWO: her current paying work load is not using up her available
time
Assumption THREE: she has no real desire or use for the rods
Assumption FOUR: and this is the key one AND the most 'iffy" ... she wants
to be PERCEIVED as a pro not as a hobbiest


Given ONLY the first three .... your points are probably valid ... income is
income


BUT, my experience is that, Joe almost never offers a barter that is "fair."
Try this on Joe, "It costs about $4,000 to have Ole Blue trained." Likely
reply, "Oh this English over and under I'm offering you is worth WAY more
than that!" Me again, "Then you should be able to easily sell it for the
4K and pay me in cash." Likely reply, "Ah, Um, ah ... I'm thinking here,
give me a minute." Joe has something he wants to get rid of, not
something he values.

Now a bit of AssFour overlay on this: IF you work for something Joe wants
to get rid of, you deminish your work's value in Joe's eyes ( and very
likely in your own ?) You 'feel' less professional, and he treats you
less professional ... maybe even in his 'word of mouth' about you to
others.

Business that has as it's only 'product' a person and that person's
abilities should have, imho, this attitude. I AM what I sell, and I AM
worth what I charge, you can NOT go to WalMart and get the same thing
cheaper, you can't get the same thing elsewhere..period. To believe in
yourself is a big part of being a true 'pro' when you are the product.

There could be more, but I'm getting bored with the typing ... SO, I'll only
add this .... IME, the people that try to "talk ya down in price" and the
ones always a bit "behind in paying their bills" are both the ones with the
most money and the ones that appreciate your efforts the least. Trying
to build a business you are better off with 6 clients that value your work
and make suggestions that you should raise your fees ( I've had this happen
many times ), than 12 that begrudge paying ... in a year or two you'll be a
whole lot better off.

Oh, I will mention one other thing .... Warren that used to be here offered
to guide me for "a six pack" .... I declined. Why? Not any of the
"Larry is anti-humanity" stuff that might come to mind. I didn't think it
fair to Warren OR his paying customers .... if you want to call yourself a
pro, you gotta act the part .... charge what you are worth, .... and keep
that PT job until you prove you're right in your self assessment. If I
charge Joe "an old gun" to train and Russ, $4K .... Russ has every right to
see me as dishonest to him, yet Russ is the customer I want to cultivate.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:12:59 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:


wrote


That makes no sense. IIRC, you are a professional dog trainer (and if
not, the example still holds). Let's say you charge $100USD per hour
for your time and the training Joe Prospect requests will take 2 hours
of your time. If he offers to trade you readily-saleable, legal
merchandise with a market value of $1000USD that'll take you 2 hours to
sell, it wouldn't make good economic sense to refuse. "Pros" look at
the numbers. And why, in your opinion, would the party making the
suggestion make a difference or would the value need to be "GREATER"?


OK some more of my "train of thought" and, yes, largely based on real world
"would ya train Ol Blue in trade fer" experiences.

First, I made some assumptions .... and that is always risky and may
instantly devalue what I say.

Assumption ONE: this lady wants to make her living as an artist
Assumption TWO: her current paying work load is not using up her available
time
Assumption THREE: she has no real desire or use for the rods
Assumption FOUR: and this is the key one AND the most 'iffy" ... she wants
to be PERCEIVED as a pro not as a hobbiest


Given ONLY the first three .... your points are probably valid ... income is
income


BUT, my experience is that, Joe almost never offers a barter that is "fair."
Try this on Joe, "It costs about $4,000 to have Ole Blue trained." Likely
reply, "Oh this English over and under I'm offering you is worth WAY more
than that!" Me again, "Then you should be able to easily sell it for the
4K and pay me in cash." Likely reply, "Ah, Um, ah ... I'm thinking here,
give me a minute." Joe has something he wants to get rid of, not
something he values.

Now a bit of AssFour overlay on this: IF you work for something Joe wants
to get rid of, you deminish your work's value in Joe's eyes ( and very
likely in your own ?) You 'feel' less professional, and he treats you
less professional ... maybe even in his 'word of mouth' about you to
others.

Business that has as it's only 'product' a person and that person's
abilities should have, imho, this attitude. I AM what I sell, and I AM
worth what I charge, you can NOT go to WalMart and get the same thing
cheaper, you can't get the same thing elsewhere..period. To believe in
yourself is a big part of being a true 'pro' when you are the product.

There could be more, but I'm getting bored with the typing ... SO, I'll only
add this .... IME, the people that try to "talk ya down in price" and the
ones always a bit "behind in paying their bills" are both the ones with the
most money and the ones that appreciate your efforts the least. Trying
to build a business you are better off with 6 clients that value your work
and make suggestions that you should raise your fees ( I've had this happen
many times ), than 12 that begrudge paying ... in a year or two you'll be a
whole lot better off.

Oh, I will mention one other thing .... Warren that used to be here offered
to guide me for "a six pack" .... I declined. Why? Not any of the
"Larry is anti-humanity" stuff that might come to mind. I didn't think it
fair to Warren OR his paying customers .... if you want to call yourself a
pro, you gotta act the part .... charge what you are worth, .... and keep
that PT job until you prove you're right in your self assessment. If I
charge Joe "an old gun" to train and Russ, $4K .... Russ has every right to
see me as dishonest to him, yet Russ is the customer I want to cultivate.

All well and good, but in the case of the OP, "Joe" is Winston offering
Winston rods, which 1) have a readily-determinable market value, 2)
willing buyers, and most importantly, 3) Winston, should they wish to do
so and its corporate structure allow, can easily trade rods that the OP
can sell for, to use your number, $4000.00, for artwork/services that
the OP would charge $3000.00 "in cash" (and likely, it would be
something like "net 30," and clients that understand "net 30" to REALLY
mean "net eventually" are rampant in Ad/PR), and everyone can come out a
winner because Winston doesn't have $3000.00 in the rods.

TC,
R

wrote:

Winston doesn't have $3000.00 in the rods.

That's true enough. They have maybe $300 in the rods. Cheapskates.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Mar 30, 7:16 pm, rw wrote:
wrote:
Winston doesn't have $3000.00 in the rods.

That's true enough. They have maybe $300 in the rods. Cheapskates.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.


YOU GUYS ARE FUNNY

"rw" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Winston doesn't have $3000.00 in the rods.

That's true enough. They have maybe $300 in the rods. Cheapskates.

IIRC, didn't Winston's entire bamboo rod building group leave them over the
company's decision to make rods in China? If they are building rods in
China, I'd be surprised if the rods cost them anywhere near $300...


--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Apr 2, 9:16 am, "george" wrote:

IIRC, didn't Winston's entire bamboo rod building group leave them over the
company's decision to make rods in China? If they are building rods in
China, I'd be surprised if the rods cost them anywhere near $300...

Winston's cane group did resign last year but not over the decision to
have their entry rods made in Asia. And the Asian rods costs less than
a *regular* Winston

"Wayne Knight" wrote in
oups.com:

On Apr 2, 9:16 am, "george" wrote:

IIRC, didn't Winston's entire bamboo rod building group leave them
over the company's decision to make rods in China? If they are
building rods in China, I'd be surprised if the rods cost them
anywhere near $300...

Winston's cane group did resign last year but not over the decision to
have their entry rods made in Asia. And the Asian rods costs less than
a *regular* Winston



http://www.uppermidwestflyfishing.co...pic.php?t=1174

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Apr 2, 10:38 am, Scott Seidman wrote:

http://www.uppermidwestflyfishing.co...pic.php?t=1174

Yea, I know the guy in the thread who essentially called Kustic a
whiner. g

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

http://www.uppermidwestflyfishing.co...pic.php?t=1174
Scott
Reverse name to reply

Thanks for the link, nice to see the photos of Tom Morgan.
-tom

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:12:59 GMT, "Larry L"
wrote:



Oh, I will mention one other thing .... Warren that used to be here offered
to guide me for "a six pack" .... I declined. Why? Not any of the
"Larry is anti-humanity" stuff that might come to mind. I didn't think it
fair to Warren OR his paying customers .... if you want to call yourself a
pro, you gotta act the part .... charge what you are worth, .... and keep
that PT job until you prove you're right in your self assessment. I


I think that was basically saying he'd do it for free. Probably
because he liked the way you post and what you posted.

There is a very fine line there. I have a friend who does bead work
for a hobby. It's hell to get her to take money for anything even for
the cost of the beads, much less her labor in doing a custom work. I
don't know what she'd charge in a store.

People do things for friends that they wouldn't do as part of a job.
Possibly Warren was regarding you as a friend or potential friend?
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli