The Sandy Juan Worm -- what is the difference?

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I don't use "classic" San Juan Worms and I sure as hell don't toss
plastic worms with a fly rod and I wouldn't call either one fly fishing.


.....so you're a purist (a fly fishing fundamentalist?). No problem.
Really. No problem at all. Everybody fishes the way they want.

I was just hoping to hear an articulate explanation.
I realize plastic worms are despicable in some eyes.
I just don't know why. And the more I try to figure out
why, the less sense it makes. I *still* have not heard,
in a sentance that makes sense, why the plastic worm
is despicable, why the San Juan Worm is not quite as
bad, etc. Say something logical and convincing, if you can.

sandy wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I don't use "classic" San Juan Worms and I sure as hell don't toss
plastic worms with a fly rod and I wouldn't call either one fly fishing.

....so you're a purist (a fly fishing fundamentalist?). No problem.
Really. No problem at all. Everybody fishes the way they want.

I was just hoping to hear an articulate explanation.
I realize plastic worms are despicable in some eyes.
I just don't know why. And the more I try to figure out
why, the less sense it makes. I *still* have not heard,
in a sentance that makes sense, why the plastic worm
is despicable, why the San Juan Worm is not quite as
bad, etc. Say something logical and convincing, if you can.

I didn't say a plastic worm was despicable I said it wasn't
a fly and one fly fishes with a fly. You can fish with whatever
legal device you want, but for me it isn't fly fishing unless
you're fishing with a fly.

And no, the "classic" San Juan Worm is *not* a fly either.
It all seems logical to me but I doubt you're convinced. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I didn't say a plastic worm was despicable I said it wasn't
a fly and one fly fishes with a fly. You can fish with whatever
legal device you want, but for me it isn't fly fishing unless
you're fishing with a fly.

And no, the "classic" San Juan Worm is *not* a fly either.
It all seems logical to me but I doubt you're convinced. ;-)


You're getting closer. But to draw that line in the sand
you have to come armed with a definition, it seems to me.

A) Why isn't a San Juan Worm a fly? It's made from chennile.
Denying the San Juan Worm seems extreme to me.

B) If a rubber worm isn't a fly, is it because of the platic?
Does that mean any fly that contains plastic is not a fly?
Or is it OK to use some amount of plastic, as long as
long as feathers are also used? Flashback Nymphs are OK,
but the Latex Caddis is not, unless it is (phew) tied with
some minimum threshold amount of Peacock Herl?

Defining what is and what isn't a fly is black hole problem
for which there is no workable solution. The only reasonable
answer is fish with what you like to fish with.........and to
refrain from Falwellian pronouncements about moral purity.
Let he who is without sin cast the first lure.
;-)

sandy wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I didn't say a plastic worm was despicable I said it wasn't
a fly and one fly fishes with a fly. You can fish with whatever
legal device you want, but for me it isn't fly fishing unless
you're fishing with a fly.

And no, the "classic" San Juan Worm is *not* a fly either.
It all seems logical to me but I doubt you're convinced. ;-)

You're getting closer. But to draw that line in the sand
you have to come armed with a definition, it seems to me.

I agree and my definition of a fly is fur and feathers wrapped
on a hook imitating a fish, an aquatic insect or a terrestrial
insect sometimes found in or near the water. A hopper qualifies,
a worm does not.

A) Why isn't a San Juan Worm a fly?

Why isn't a goldfish a canary ?

snip
Defining what is and what isn't a fly is black hole problem
for which there is no workable solution.

Horsepucky. My solution works perfectly well for me.

The only reasonable
answer is fish with what you like to fish with.........and to
refrain from Falwellian pronouncements about moral purity.
Let he who is without sin cast the first lure.
;-)

Yep, you can fish with any legal contraption you want but for
me it ain't fly fishing unless I'm using a fly. If that's moral
purity, why I'm just as pure as the driven snow. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On May 21, 8:02 am, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

I agree and my definition of a fly is fur and feathers wrapped
on a hook imitating a fish, an aquatic insect or a terrestrial
insect sometimes found in or near the water. A hopper qualifies,
a worm does not.

So Leeches are out too (not a fish, aquatic insect or terrestrial).
Spiders would be off limits too, egg flies and all attractors.

The real point (well, this whole exersize is rapidly becoming
pointless)
but if there is a point to be made here, it is to recongnize the
difference
between:

a) I wouldn't fish with a worm, because it isn't what I like to do.

and

b) I know the definition of fly fishing better than you do.
My way is the one true way. This, right here, is the line in
the sand, defined by me, across which you lose your identity
as a fly fisherman. That's right wing fishing.

salmobytes wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I agree and my definition of a fly is fur and feathers wrapped
on a hook imitating a fish, an aquatic insect or a terrestrial
insect sometimes found in or near the water. A hopper qualifies,
a worm does not.

So Leeches are out too (not a fish, aquatic insect or terrestrial).
Spiders would be off limits too, egg flies and all attractors.

Spiders and leeches are OK, crawdads too but I won't use glo-bugs.

The real point (well, this whole exersize is rapidly becoming
pointless)
but if there is a point to be made here, it is to recongnize the
difference
between:

a) I wouldn't fish with a worm, because it isn't what I like to do.

and

b) I know the definition of fly fishing better than you do.
My way is the one true way.

I know Ken Fortenberry's definition of fly fishing better than
you do, indeed I know it better than anyone else in the world.
My way is the one true way *for me*. I couldn't care less what
anyone else does with their fly rod and I don't expect anyone
else to much care what I do with mine.

This, right here, is the line in
the sand, defined by me, across which you lose your identity
as a fly fisherman. That's right wing fishing.

LOL !! Gawd, I *hate* when that happens. I mean, where in the
hell could I have mislaid my fly fishing identity this time ?
And will I find it in time to go fishing next week ? ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

When the lady at the cocktail party asked Hugh Masakela to say
something in 'African' he replied "Uga buga lady. Uga Buga."
I think that applies to us both at this point. I declare this thread
dead--for me anyway.

I will, no doubt, try to gross every body out again someday soon.
Trolling with rubber worms and homemade wigglers always seems to work.
:-)