Disaster and partial compensation

Typo correction.

For "Releasing sterile fish is generally illegal in
most places."

Read "Releasing fertile fish................."

MC

Monstrosities like this are the norm rather than the exception on many
waters;

http://www.finandfly.com/gallery/ima...c8e7fe5a57.jpg

http://members.fortunecity.com/timev...glad/trout.jpg

http://www.samtsai.com/pix/yadayada/p238.jpg

There are plenty more, because the unfortunate "anglers" who catch
these objects of pity and contempt don´t know any better, ( much like
you) and actually pose for photos with them.

MC

For anybody who might be seriously interested in the problem, ( which
will eventually catch you up in America as well, as a result of "knock-
on" marine ecological effects, rising human population, pollution,
and the almost criminal ignorance of "anglers" like Kenny, among other
things )

http://www.globefish.org/index.php?i...tid=1640476505

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_meal

http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/...aculture-diets

There are plenty of information sites.

MC

Mike wrote:
For anybody who might be seriously interested in the problem, ( which
will eventually catch you up in America as well, as a result of "knock-
on" marine ecological effects, rising human population, pollution,
and the almost criminal ignorance of "anglers" like Kenny, among other
things )

http://www.globefish.org/index.php?i...tid=1640476505

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_meal

http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/...aculture-diets

There are plenty of information sites.

Yeah, like I said earlier you're conflating aquaculture with
fisheries management. Fisheries management has come a long way
from simple "put and take" in most parts of the US, although
some states still do it and some anglers still follow the
hatchery trucks around and fish with "pellet lures". On the
other hand there is a lot of fishable water that would have
no fish at all if not for fish hatcheries and the economy of
northern Wisconsin would take an enormous hit if not for the
annual release of thousands of musky fry from the hatcheries.

Besides, when folks are fishing stocked waters that makes
more room for me on wild waters. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 13 Sep, 15:48, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Mike wrote:


Yeah, like I said earlier you're conflating aquaculture with
fisheries management. Fisheries management has come a long way
from simple "put and take" in most parts of the US, although
some states still do it and some anglers still follow the
hatchery trucks around and fish with "pellet lures". On the
other hand there is a lot of fishable water that would have
no fish at all if not for fish hatcheries and the economy of
northern Wisconsin would take an enormous hit if not for the
annual release of thousands of musky fry from the hatcheries.

Besides, when folks are fishing stocked waters that makes
more room for me on wild waters. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

The subject is stocked rainbow trout in a UK fishery. You don´t know
anything about it. But never fear, I am sure you eventually will.

Because you obviously have very extensive resources in America, it
will take longer for some of these effects to have the same results,
but many of your anadromous fish runs are already severely affected,
and will continue to decline unless the rape of the seas around and in
the vicinity of your own coastlines is stopped.

Nothing on this planet is entirely divorced from anything else,
( excepting human understanding). Marine ecology has massive effects
on fresh water ecology, initially the effects are mainly restricted to
various marine and anadromous fish, but this has other effects. many
of the interdependencies are extremely complex.

So, the results of completely undermining the basic marine food chain
are drastic and comparatively sudden. MASSIVE amounts of bait fish
are being caught, turned into fish meal at another MASSIVE loss ratio,
to produce inferior farmed fish, pet food, and a host of other
things.

Left in place, that bait would produce more and better fish. Quite
apart from its other functions, many of which are not even known.

ALL the stocked rainbow trout in Europe are the result of limited gene
pool breeding from a few original steelhead strains. MASSIVE numbers
of these fish are bred, reared, and grown on to "catchable" sizes
using fish meal. This is accompanied and compounded by the use of
chemicals and hormones, and the increased incidence of various
diseases, some previously unknown, as a result of intensive farming of
these fish. Deformities and the lack of fins and tails are common and
symptomatic.

Some extremely serious diseases have already been spread, and
completely decimated even large salmon runs, as a result of
transporting farmed rainbow trout for stocking purposes. Some
countries have had to resort to completely poisoning rivers of all
life in an attempt ( probably quite futile) to damn the problem. This
could only work if there were enough fish to restock the rivers
anyway. This alone is now a problem.

Fish farms have absolutely devastated whole areas of coastline, making
it impossible for salmon and sea trout to survive, as under and around
the farm cages, and for wide areas beyond, massive concentrations of
sea lice, kept largely at bay in the cages with various chemicals,
attack the wild smolts, and kill them before they can move out to sea.

Most predatory fish ( especially salmonoids) which are grown on beyond
the fry stage, require fish meal/oil in their diets. There is no
substitute for this as yet. Practically all this is provided by
catching bait fish.

Your resources are large, but not infinite, and your population is as
yet relatively thinly spread, but growing apace. Quite a few things
are affecting you now, when your population increases further, as it
is steadily doing all the time, those problems will multiply and
intensify.

Enough. I am sure you can Google it if you are interested at all.

MC

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
For anybody who might be seriously interested in the problem, ( which
will eventually catch you up in America as well, as a result of "knock-
on" marine ecological effects, rising human population, pollution,
and the almost criminal ignorance of "anglers" like Kenny, among other
things )

http://www.globefish.org/index.php?i...tid=1640476505

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_meal

http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/...aculture-diets

There are plenty of information sites.

Yeah, like I said earlier you're conflating aquaculture with
fisheries management. Fisheries management has come a long way
from simple "put and take" in most parts of the US, although
some states still do it and some anglers still follow the
hatchery trucks around and fish with "pellet lures". On the
other hand there is a lot of fishable water that would have
no fish at all if not for fish hatcheries and the economy of
northern Wisconsin would take an enormous hit if not for the
annual release of thousands of musky fry from the hatcheries.

Besides, when folks are fishing stocked waters that makes
more room for me on wild waters. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken, I don't think those across the big pond understand what you are trying
to say... Releasing small fry into the waters and letting them feed in a
more natural state instead of FORCE feeding the fish at a high cost is
something they just don't know about I guess....

Rick In Wisconsin

On 14 Sep, 03:43, "Rick" wrote:


Ken, I don't think those across the big pond understand what you are trying
to say... Releasing small fry into the waters and letting them feed in a
more natural state instead of FORCE feeding the fish at a high cost is
something they just don't know about I guess....

Rick In Wisconsin

Bad guess, he is just being the ****bag he is. He doesn´t know
anything at all about how European fisheries are run, and he doesn´t
care, he just wants to argue and abuse people. Which is basically all
he ever does. He imagines that he is somehow "top dog" here or
something equally silly, and he just has to **** on everything to make
sure it smells like him. He is so frightened that everybody will laugh
at him for his ignorance, that he deliberately provokes ****ing
matches and abuses others to try and cover up his near total ignorance
and inadequacy. Most people don´t say anything because they know the
****bag all too well, and he´ll just behave like the total asshole he
is, and start another ****ing match. I imagine most think it simply is
not worth the effort and bother involved.

It´s high time people started calling a spade a spade around here, and
ostracising those who do nothing else but start arguments and cause
problems. Maintaining all sorts of lies and bull****, taking every
single thread over with crap, and generally behaving like assholes.
Poisoning the atmosphere for everybody, and causing others to get
ratty as a side effect. I am extremely annoyed at having snapped at
Sandy Pittendrigh, he has one of the most useful and interesting
American oriented websites around, and I have once again to thank
Fortenberry for poisoning my genuine enjoyment of it, and ****ing off
somebody I like and respect.

The nasty slimy ******* does it all the time, plays one off against
the other, so he can jump in and **** people about. That´s not normal,
why should any sensible normal person accept it? Many people no longer
post here because of the obnoxious *******, hardly anybody ever does
anything, and those who do get no support. I don´t get along
particularly well with Wolfgang in the meantime, and it is probably
best if we avoid contact, but at least he speaks out against these
assholes who have more or less taken over this group.

I don´t want sympathy, or indeed anything else from any of you, but don
´t any of you want to get this place in order so that it is a pleasant
place to be? Where people can come and simply talk about their common
interest without a **** like Fortenberry screwing it up? If you don´t
do something, you might as well give up now.

Ah well, we shall see what we shall see............................

MC

Mike wrote:
snip yet another loony tirade
Ah well, we shall see what we shall see............................

Yeah, my guess is you'll eventually discover you really are
the laughingstock of roff and you'll stomp out of here in a
royal hissy fit vowing never to return. But in the meantime,
please, do carry on.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...

It´s high time people started calling a spade a spade around here,

No. It's time we called it a ****ing shovel.

these assholes who have more or less taken over this group.

Seriously, it's just one of many unmoderated usenet newsgroups. No one here
has taken over anything. If there are people you don't like or "respect",
then ignore them. Walk away for a while, or whatever else one would normally
do to wait out frustration. At the end of the day, it's not relevant in
grand scheme of things. And speaking of trying to control things, it seems
to me lately you're the guy who has to post three or four replies to a
single post.

Um Mister ****ums, I was taking Ken's side on this one not yours.. Get a
clue you pathetic waste of oxygen

Rick

And yes In know I top posted.. Did it on purpose..

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 14 Sep, 03:43, "Rick" wrote:


Ken, I don't think those across the big pond understand what you are
trying
to say... Releasing small fry into the waters and letting them feed in a
more natural state instead of FORCE feeding the fish at a high cost is
something they just don't know about I guess....

Rick In Wisconsin

Bad guess, he is just being the ****bag he is. He doesn´t know
anything at all about how European fisheries are run, and he doesn´t
care, he just wants to argue and abuse people. Which is basically all
he ever does. He imagines that he is somehow "top dog" here or
something equally silly, and he just has to **** on everything to make
sure it smells like him. He is so frightened that everybody will laugh
at him for his ignorance, that he deliberately provokes ****ing
matches and abuses others to try and cover up his near total ignorance
and inadequacy. Most people don´t say anything because they know the
****bag all too well, and he´ll just behave like the total asshole he
is, and start another ****ing match. I imagine most think it simply is
not worth the effort and bother involved.

It´s high time people started calling a spade a spade around here, and
ostracising those who do nothing else but start arguments and cause
problems. Maintaining all sorts of lies and bull****, taking every
single thread over with crap, and generally behaving like assholes.
Poisoning the atmosphere for everybody, and causing others to get
ratty as a side effect. I am extremely annoyed at having snapped at
Sandy Pittendrigh, he has one of the most useful and interesting
American oriented websites around, and I have once again to thank
Fortenberry for poisoning my genuine enjoyment of it, and ****ing off
somebody I like and respect.

The nasty slimy ******* does it all the time, plays one off against
the other, so he can jump in and **** people about. That´s not normal,
why should any sensible normal person accept it? Many people no longer
post here because of the obnoxious *******, hardly anybody ever does
anything, and those who do get no support. I don´t get along
particularly well with Wolfgang in the meantime, and it is probably
best if we avoid contact, but at least he speaks out against these
assholes who have more or less taken over this group.

I don´t want sympathy, or indeed anything else from any of you, but don
´t any of you want to get this place in order so that it is a pleasant
place to be? Where people can come and simply talk about their common
interest without a **** like Fortenberry screwing it up? If you don´t
do something, you might as well give up now.

Ah well, we shall see what we shall see............................

MC