First Fly Box

On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:


Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:
On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:



Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman

On Nov 2, 4:28 pm, riverman wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:





On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh heh. Now that I'm home and CAN open the attachment, I see that you
seem to be quite prescient. How clever of you.
:-)

I've never seen a Greenwell's Glory or a Snipe and Purple (although I
can attest to a lot of success with other soft hackles in Sweden), but
you've answered my question with your article. It seems that a narrow
diversity of flies, in a few sizes, with 2 or 3 of each, is the
recommendation. I think I agree.

Thanks, Mike.

--riverman

On 2 Nov, 12:27, riverman wrote:
On Nov 2, 4:28 pm, riverman wrote:



On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:

On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh heh. Now that I'm home and CAN open the attachment, I see that you
seem to be quite prescient. How clever of you.
:-)

I've never seen a Greenwell's Glory or a Snipe and Purple (although I
can attest to a lot of success with other soft hackles in Sweden), but
you've answered my question with your article. It seems that a narrow
diversity of flies, in a few sizes, with 2 or 3 of each, is the
recommendation. I think I agree.

Thanks, Mike.

--riverman

One may vary the actual flies to a considerable extent. More or less
any of Harry´s generic patterns would also suit. The main thing is to
stick to a strictly limited selection at first, and concentrate on
learning when to use what. Even an extremely limited selection of the
right flies will work in most places 70....90% of the time, and using
such,automatically removes a lot of variables and confusion, which is
important for beginners.

Presentation is usually of considerably greater importance than a
specific pattern.

Also, I try to start people off with generic wet flies/streamers/
nymphs. Dry fly fishing can be quite difficult for a beginner. Can
also be fun of course, but a draggging wet fly is much more likely to
catch a fish than a dragging dry fly.

With regard to sizes, for streamers, specifically woolly buggers,
which are probably THE most versatile streamer in existence, I would
go for #6 long shanks. For soft hackles, other wet flies and nymphs,
#16 and #14.

In time, and with experience, one will wish to increase one´s
selection, also to suit specific venues. Tailwater fisheries WILL
require other flies for instance, and in small sizes.

I obviously don´t know the specifics of your class, but you might like
to have a try at making these with them;

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...ta rt=10&sa=N

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.

I would also recommend the leader rings;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on.../leaders..html

Some set-ups may also be of use to you;
http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...s/set_ups.html

Usually, beginners have the most problems with rigging and knots.

If I can be of any further assistance, please don´t hesitate to ask.
If you drop me a mail, with your address, I will also send you some of
the flies mentioned, for your class.

TL
MC

On 2 Nov, 18:41, Mike wrote:
On 2 Nov, 12:27, riverman wrote:



On Nov 2, 4:28 pm, riverman wrote:

On Nov 2, 10:40 am, Mike wrote:

On 2 Nov, 02:32, riverman wrote:

Dave, you're a gentleman and a scholar, and I thank you deeply. :-)

M



Just wait a while, the dishonourable old ****bag will make sure he
gets a pound of flesh for them!

Don´t drink his beer either!

MC

Well, I guess...

In any case, I can't open your link here at school, but I'd be very
interested in your opinion...for a newbie box that had limited
quantities (say, 20 flies); which would you compromise on: diversity
of sizes, diversity of styles, or diversity of back-ups?

--riverman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh heh. Now that I'm home and CAN open the attachment, I see that you
seem to be quite prescient. How clever of you.
:-)

I've never seen a Greenwell's Glory or a Snipe and Purple (although I
can attest to a lot of success with other soft hackles in Sweden), but
you've answered my question with your article. It seems that a narrow
diversity of flies, in a few sizes, with 2 or 3 of each, is the
recommendation. I think I agree.

Thanks, Mike.

--riverman

One may vary the actual flies to a considerable extent. More or less
any of Harry´s generic patterns would also suit. The main thing is to
stick to a strictly limited selection at first, and concentrate on
learning when to use what. Even an extremely limited selection of the
right flies will work in most places 70....90% of the time, and using
such,automatically removes a lot of variables and confusion, which is
important for beginners.

Presentation is usually of considerably greater importance than a
specific pattern.

Also, I try to start people off with generic wet flies/streamers/
nymphs. Dry fly fishing can be quite difficult for a beginner. Can
also be fun of course, but a draggging wet fly is much more likely to
catch a fish than a dragging dry fly.

With regard to sizes, for streamers, specifically woolly buggers,
which are probably THE most versatile streamer in existence, I would
go for #6 long shanks. For soft hackles, other wet flies and nymphs,
#16 and #14.

In time, and with experience, one will wish to increase one´s
selection, also to suit specific venues. Tailwater fisheries WILL
require other flies for instance, and in small sizes.

I obviously don´t know the specifics of your class, but you might like
to have a try at making these with them;

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...omepage.t-onli...

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.

I would also recommend the leader rings;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on..._ups/Leaders/l...

Some set-ups may also be of use to you;http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...s/set_ups.html

Usually, beginners have the most problems with rigging and knots.

If I can be of any further assistance, please don´t hesitate to ask.
If you drop me a mail, with your address, I will also send you some of
the flies mentioned, for your class.

TL
MC

OK , read the other thread on this, and found your postal address.
Will send the flies to that. Should go off about the end of next week.

I don´t know what flies you will be getting from Harry, ( although you
may rest assured they will be first class), so I will simply send what
I think might be useful.

As people here can be quite generous, you will probably end up with a
lot of flies. Don´t be tempted to put them all in the boxes! This
is contra-productive. Stick to a basic selection, and save the others
for your next course.

You might also like to make a list of the flies with descriptions and
uses. This also aids selection considerably.If you require assistance
with that, then let me know. I will enclose such a list for the flies
I send.

By this, I mean that ONE! generic nymph pattern, one generic caddis
pattern, etc, is sufficient to begin with, but at least three of each.
This immediately obviates a lot of doubt and confusion, and it
ALWAYS!!! works.

Much the same applies to sizes. There are some criteria which allow
one to select the most useful size of certain flies: Here for instance
are the criteria I use for selecting a general nymph size, when I don
´t know the exact size required ;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...ear_nymph.html

This also works for generic caddis, mayfly, and other patterns. It
also makes it a lot easier to choose the right flies.

Also choose a limited number of set-ups, ( see previous post) which
you are going to use. Don´t try to tell them everything at ionce.
Describe a couple of set-ups, and how and why they work.

Decide on ONE general knot, for attaching flies etc( I always use the
tucked half-blood, also known as the improved clinch), and practice it
with them. ( In previous post) Consider pre-configuring fly lines
with whatever terminal knots you prefer, ( I prefer a piece of nylon
at abou 80% of fly-line diameter, permanently nail knotted to the line
and I attach leaders with a loop. One may also use the improved clinch
to attacheleaders to such a loop, or to leader rings).

TL
MC

Also, as you may or may not be aware, the first rig shown, nymph off
the bend of the dry fly, is a very popular and successful rig in New
Zealand;

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/t...ng_double.aspx

The other rigs shown also often work well.

This site will also be useful to you;

http://www.fly-fishing-guides-new-zealand.co.nz/faq.htm

TL
MC

This is also excellent for preconfiguring fly lines;

http://www.graysofkilsyth.com/fishing-knots-gray's-loop.htm

TL
MC

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...omepage.t-onli...

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.


Sorry, the first link in that post was wrong of course. Here is the
right one;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on...nes/lines.html

TL
MC

On Nov 3, 6:19 am, Mike wrote:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...omepage.t-onli...

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.

Sorry, the first link in that post was wrong of course. Here is the
right one;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on..._Long_Rod/Line...

TL
MC

Thanks for all the info, Mike.

I've decided on a two nymphs, two dries and one streamer per kid, with
varying sizes of each. As it stands, I've put in a wish-list with
Harry for the following (per box)

Copper Johns (#14 and #16)
GRHE (#16 and #18), beaded and unbeaded
Woolly Bugger (#10) Black, Olive, beaded and unbeaded
EHC: #12, #14
BWO; #16

In addition, there are a couple of donation flies that will make it in
there, but I might hold those aside until mid-trip: once the kids have
cast their own flies for a few days and are comfortable with them,
then I'll break out some new flies and have them add them to their
boxes. That way, they aren't overwhelmed with options at the start,
but can start building on their knowledge once they get going.

M

On 3 Nov, 02:24, riverman wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:19 am, Mike wrote:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sit...omepage.t-onli...

(Scroll down to the Singaporean leaders at the bottom of the
article). They are easy and quick to make, and work very well indeed.

Sorry, the first link in that post was wrong of course. Here is the
right one;

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-on..._Long_Rod/Line...

TL
MC

Thanks for all the info, Mike.

I've decided on a two nymphs, two dries and one streamer per kid, with
varying sizes of each. As it stands, I've put in a wish-list with
Harry for the following (per box)

Copper Johns (#14 and #16)
GRHE (#16 and #18), beaded and unbeaded
Woolly Bugger (#10) Black, Olive, beaded and unbeaded
EHC: #12, #14
BWO; #16

In addition, there are a couple of donation flies that will make it in
there, but I might hold those aside until mid-trip: once the kids have
cast their own flies for a few days and are comfortable with them,
then I'll break out some new flies and have them add them to their
boxes. That way, they aren't overwhelmed with options at the start,
but can start building on their knowledge once they get going.

M

My pleasure.

That sounds like a very good plan, and a good basic assortment. I
might suggest a larger size variation. 16 and 12 is a good idea for
nymphs, ( allows one to represent a wider range). In view of your
list, I will send the same flies. Woolly buggers, GRHE, and Greenwells
( Spiders, good BWO imitation, and general emerger, among other
things). Obviously the patterns will not be identical to Harry´s or
others you receive, but they will be in the same general ball park,
allowing you to offer a fairly "standardised" but still versatile
assortment for each box. I would certainly advise you to put at least
one soft hackle in there as well, although I agree with leaving out
traditional winged wet flies as they are notoriously difficult to
fish. I will send you "Partridge and Oranges", which for pure river
fishing are rather more versatile than the snipe and purple I feel.

I wont send you any dry flies. I think the EHC is a very good general
dry fly anyway, and you will be getting those from Harry. My GRHE´s
will be weighted. ( Scuds, shrimps etc). Maybe the GRHE´s from Harry
will be dries?

TL
MC